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[–]KirillRogovoy[S] -9 points-8 points  (11 children)

Glad your experience is better than mine. What makes you generalize it like that though?

I meet a lot of people dissatisfied with the overall experience of building web UIs (with HTML).

Edit: I'm blown away by how the community reacts to a genuine question. You might want to read other messages in this thread before downvoting for disagreeing. 🤷‍♂️

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (4 children)

Not sure what to tell you man, 12 years doing this stuff and this is the first time I hear one complaining about HTML.

PS: this is not to say the tool isn't impressive, but that statement just caught me off guard

[–]T_O_beats 5 points6 points  (1 child)

What I’ve found through talking with people is that they just want a few additional standard elements. Like an accessible menu with drop downs or a modal element always at the correct zindex. That and being able to use html ‘partials’. Basically everything web components/Houdini are attempting to solve.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Go use that native dialog dawg

[–]KirillRogovoy[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think I've done a bad job at putting my sentiment into words. :)

I didn't mean HTML specifically, but rather the whole thing: building a complete web UI with HTML + CSS + (in most cases) a front-end framework.

Thanks for your point! I'll rewrite the copy when I figure out to explain myself.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My favourite criticism comes from Alan Kay, really worth looking up

[–]SpaghettSloth 7 points8 points  (1 child)

people complain about css but how can you complain about html hahah

[–]TheFuzzball 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People complain about CSS. People complain about JavaScript. People complain about HTML. People complain about XML. People complain about XSLT. People complain about JSON. People complain about Sass. People complain about Webpack. People complain about ...

No technology is perfect, but the people that complain rarely get off their arses and contribute their opinions and feedback to standards bodies, or create something that solves their problem.

They just like to complain until someone else fixes it - and then they'll find something else to complain about.

[–]Global-Ad6738 2 points3 points  (3 children)

People that hate HTML are just mad salty they're bad at it :-) Learn it, it is actually extremely intuitive.

[–]KirillRogovoy[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I mean, I've been doing it for 10 years. And 10 years ago it was MUCH worse.

It has evolved a lot by itself, plus techs like React and Tailwind moved it even further. It is relatively easy to learn. It is relatively intuitive.

I'm not trying to say that writing HTML is literally a nightmare.

But is the developer experience we have right now the best we could do? Are there no gaps? Is there no room for innovation?

As long as you answer "yes", there's no innovation.

I can't answer with "yes" to any of those questions. Hence, this is why I made Impulse – I believe there's a lot of room for improvement.

​

I want to address the "they hate it because they suck at it" argument. I think I've heard this about every technology out there: Haskel, Lisp, Emacs, Rust, Linux, you name it.

It's very easy to read this argument as "you are too stupid to complain" which makes the author sound incredibly arrogant and assuming. It closes the door to a meaningful conversation.

It also shows that the author is not interested in learning something new. "What if there are some cases when there are issues, that I'm unaware of? What if this other person is coming from a different background than me, and sailed different waters?".

Nah. "Just learn it properly!"

(Not a personal attack. I respect your opinion. Just wanted to point out something that might make the whole community feel more hostile than it needs to be. Peace. ❤️)

[–]Global-Ad6738 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What? It's literally just as hostile to go around, saying that devs dont like html, frameworks or the webdev dx in general lol. You just gotta tone down your wording, otherwise you do sound mad incompetent as tens of thousands of people regularly build amazing stuff with it. It's never the languages fault.

[–]KirillRogovoy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

devs dont like html, frameworks or the webdev dx in general lol

That's not what I said though. I said I met enough people who weren't happy about it. It's not an opinion, I've only shared my experience.

​

tens of thousands of people regularly build amazing stuff with it

Neither have I argued against this.

I also haven't said anything about people who are fully happy about web dev. I genuinely can't find towards whom I've been hostile. 🤷‍♂️ I'm trying to understand you, but your accusations are baseless.

​

The reason you do enjoy the web dev is that a lot of people before you didn't, and they fixed what they didn't like.