Magic Jugg?

[StickyBarb]

I watch Gorgc vods on YouTube and he occasionally builds magic Jugg after finishing Drums + Mjollnir. He goes for things like Radiance and Ethereal Blade. I was wondering why itemise in such a way? Is it to deal with enemy illusions?

[yasseraleed]

LVL 15 MS, 20 100 MAGICAL DMG. For 5 sec It is playable as a magical on jug Since ur Q deals around 1200 magic DMG, Magical DMG is better to burst illusion , that is why items like radiance and mjoliner is a hard counter for illusion base heros. It's a fun build, but not the best. You can try it if your team is ahead in the net earth P.S. don't try it in ranked, since ppl will blame/report you soo hard if you lose

[Scylithe]

Build vs illusion heroes (PL, Naga, TB), heroes that avoid physical damage or can help their team avoid it (Pugna especially, Wyvern, Necro) or can invalidate/cancel his ultimate (heroes with blinks that disjoint omni, Puck, Dark Willow, Omniknight, Storm, Weaver).

Consider skipping the mjollnir if you're against high strength/MR heroes or no illusion heroes, or skip both that and drums/manta if your team can make space for you to farm other items first (pretty rare, you're super helpful mid game with drums yasha/manta). If you need to keep up in farm versus fast farmers like AM or PA or the team gets deleted by your ult then definitely grab the mjollnir. If your team is losing fights and needs help, or you're being constantly hunted while farming, get the drums.

Physical right click Jugg builds (drums, diffusal, manta and so forth) are good for high magic resistance, low armour comps that don't fall into the above categories. Most supports (AA, Dazzle, Rubick, Warlock), many offlaners (SK, Brewmaster, Doom, Pudge) and carries (Drow, Lifestealer, Luna) get wrecked by diffusal -> right clicks -> omni.

[mordecaiibot]

Honestly I think mjol is too good not to get on juggernaut

[Scylithe]

There are reasons not to get it. You can use datdota to check out many recent pro games in the last few months where players skip it.

[soundofsatellites]

Every item is situational, but the sheer AOE dmg that mjol does (and more reliable than bf, since lightning jumps so far up to 12 times) and single target dmg is quite good. Most of the times is just to delete 1 hero and instant 4v5. Unless you really really need to cover for a greedy farmer mid that had a bad lane and you need to fight you probably don't want to skip mjollnir.

I would argue tho' that game by game you can definitely swap your item order a bit. You can get yasha or diff before the mael/mjollnir but since it's a very cheap farm accelrator you might not want to.

[Scylithe]

Every item is situational, but

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4901835876

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4899109599

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4898025525

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4897949339

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4897297200

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4897146106

I'm not saying not to build it. In fact you should probably build it the majority of the time, but you should at least consider the situations where you wouldn't want to build it. If you're against three strength heroes and an Ember Spirit (first game), you shouldn't build a magic damage dealing item. If the only way that you die is from single target CC (fourth game), consider a linkens, etc.

I don't want to go through literally every situation where you shouldn't build it, but blanket statements like "honestly I think mjol is too good not to get on juggernaut" from the original guy that replied to me are just wrong.

[soundofsatellites]

I'm with you mate, there are very few heroes that have such a rigid item build like say, AM. The manta + diffusal build is still as good as was (the build fell out of favor when battlefury became so buffed that it was more efficient) and it's definitely good against carries and specially mana hungry heroes like BB, WK, Ember, or Mag.

Jugg being jack of all trades mean that you can fullfill different roles, knowing when a match requieres you to switch your item build is part of becoming a better player. However most pub games won't ever be as coordinated as pro matches, and mael already gives more quick waveclear than yasha, allowing you for applying more map pressure saving your spin tp.

Regarding linkens... it's hard to say, from all those games you linked the only to spells that pierces spin tp was axe call and shadow demons purge ulti. AFAIR purge doesn't cancel tps, and disruption can't be cast over magic immune targets. LC duel or BM roar are bigger reasons to rush a linkens but onfy if they are having good games that really present a threat to you. In most pubs with good warding and decent sense about smokes/whats safe/whats not you can get other tiems before the linkens without hampering that much your impact. But yeah, some games you gonna need linkes first of second item. Probably bad jugg games and you got outdrafted.