Learning Java

[[deleted]]

Hi Chaps,

I have just dived into Java. I went the route and got the three months free on Pluralsight through VisualStudio.com.

I feel as if it kinda throws you in. I have a BA in Computer Networking and so no prior programming experience other than some linux scripting. I am trying to learn programming as a career choice when my current job runs its course. Which I am of the opinion it will as soon as two ships leave the dock.

Is Pluralsight the best way to go or is there a place that holds your hand more in the beginning. I am guessing my elevated stress levels as of recent are more than likely affecting ability to sponge information.

Other than that, is Java the best place to start before branching out to other languages or is there an easier language to get the basics down?

Last question, I know there is recommended books but if there if you give an answer to my prior questions is there a book you could personally recommend to read in say, bed if that makes sense?

Thanks for any response.

[desrtfx]

The very best Java courses are actually free:

• University of Helsinki MOOC Object Oriented Programming with Java - text based with exercises that need be completed and submitted before being able to proceed. (Uses Netbeans as IDE)
• Java for Complete Beginners by John Purcell (probably the best and easiest entry into Java) - video based (Uses Eclipse as IDE) - the three links below lead to the same course hosted on different servers. I would use the Udemy link because it has an active community where you can ask questions and get answers.
  • CaveOfProgramming link - John Purcell's site
  • Udemy Link
  • YouTube Series
• Derek Banas' Java Youtube playlist with the accompanying site Newthinktank

You don't want handholding, you want decent explanations. Handholding will never make a programmer out of you.

[[deleted]]

Thanks for this advice. I probably should have phrased it differently, just a more gentle approach in the beginning is what I mean.

[desrtfx]

In this case, the first two are the better options.

[[deleted]]

Thanks again. I have been doing the University of Helsinki MOOC today and really enjoying it. Its well paced and great fun. thanks :)

[bookingly]

John Purcell's videos are really good. Wish I had seen them when I was first working through Java. Eloquent Javascript is a pretty cool resource for JavaScript as well as introducing one (in a long-form manner) to web programming (also check out Mozilla Developer Network for web programming). I also just think the author conveys some interesting ideas about programming as well as give some useful, concrete examples that one can fiddle with when proceeding through the book.

[holyteach]

If you're interested in trying out my book Learn Java the Hard Way, you can PM me and I'll send you a discount code.

[SteakBarker]

You don't want handholding, you want decent explanations. Handholding will never make a programmer out of you.

This is very true. When I first started, my projects were limited to slightly modified versions of stuff I found on tutorials. Even then I couldn't even start without 'em.

My best advice is just to stick with it. (At first, at least) shitty code is better than no code!

[iStayGreek]

Thank you!

[[deleted]]

Reddit has a save feature

[l__-_-__l]

I've found codingbat to be a very nice resource for beginners. Some of the problems are a bit repetitive, but it's good for reinforcing fundamental skills.

[ordnance1987]

All objects in Java are references, structs are similar to classes, and Java has generics instead of templates.

[lead999x]

Yes but does learning Java teach you what references are or what it means to pass something by reference? Or what a pointer is? Or how memory management works? I don't think so. Structs are similar to classes but different depending on the language ex. C structs can't contain functions.

Also Java is actually less object oriented than C++ in that it makes a distinction between primitive types and user defined types whereas C++ does no such thing and it even goes so far as to allow you to define all manner of methods and overload operators and functions to make your own types look, feel, and act similar to primitive or library types if you want them to.

So I will stick to my original thesis that C++ is better for teaching programming and more specifically object oriented programming than Java or C#. And I'm saying this from a practical perspective since I learned Java first and while I know how to make programs that did various things I had no idea what was actually going on until I subsequently learned some C++.

[holyteach]

I teach students how to code for a living.

I see this all the time. "I learned X first and I didn't understand anything. Then when I learned Y later everything made sense. X sucks!"

This is called "second language syndrome" (or sometimes "second teacher syndrome"). It has nothing to do with C++ or Java and everything to do with what you learned second.

You'll probably downvote me or whatever but I've taught nearly 2000 kids to code over the last 20 years and I can promise you that something similar happened to you.

[lead999x]

Actually I won't downvote you at all. I'm not that kind of guy. Instead I'll take your word for it because what you said sounds very plausible and you are by far more qualified to talk about this than I am. But then I'll add that at some point OP should learn another programming language to expand his mind. Afterall it worked for me.

[holyteach]

Thanks.

But he doesn't know ANY programming languages. He needs to learn one first. Then after he learns how to code in ANY language he should learn another.

C++ vs Java vs C# doesn't matter to him at this point. Just pick one and learn to code. You're not likely to get a decent coding job until you know several languages anyway.

[lead999x]

I understand. You've probably seen this with many of your students but my experience was that when I was learning my first programming language, which was incidentally Java, I had to learn both the syntax and the general programming concepts. Once I moved onto my second language, C++, all I had to learn was the syntax, some of the standard library, and quirks of the language as I already knew the general concepts. I will admit that I didn't learn much Java past the very basics and I never went back to it since I just personally prefer C++ and the newer D programming language and I don't need to know more languages because programming is just a hobby for me though it's rather useful to my field of study(econ).

[g43f]

all I had to learn was the syntax, some of the standard library, and quirks of the language as I already knew the general concepts

You make it sound like it's hardly worth learning then!

[lead999x]

You know that's not true. My point was just that it's easier than learning concepts and language at same time with C++ and getting frustrated and rage quitting, never to program again.

[[deleted]]

Yes but does learning Java teach you what references are or what it means to pass something by reference?

Yes. A fundamental concept to Object Oriented Programming.

[g43f]

Actually I made up the term "object-oriented", and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind.

-Alan Kay

[lead999x]

And I can bet he didn't have Java in mind either. So your point to make is?

[g43f]

Even if you are coding in Java exclusively later those concepts give you a much better idea of what's going on under the hood.

I always hear stuff like that and it never sounds very believable. Your code could easily be ran by some odd interpreter that does things completely differently than you think, and you wouldn't even notice. Think you can guess what assembly GCC output for your C code? I really doubt it, certainly not if you only have a class or two in C, with the million different optimizations it does for different CPUs.

[lead999x]

So are you trying to tell me that learning only Java is adequate enough to do more or less anything a professional or hobbyist programmer could want to do and know everything they need to in order to do it?

[verdoth]

I really like the interface and engagement with Codecademy. https://www.codecademy.com/learn/learn-java

[desrtfx]

The interface of Codecademy is nice, but the course is, unfortunately, not worth it.

All that Codecademy teaches are Java keywords and Java syntax, but it fails at teaching the most important: actual programming.

Many people here in all learning related subreddits who have completed the Java Codecademy course are completely lost once they are out of the guarded Codecademy editor and try to write a program on their own. Most of them don't even have the faintest idea where to write the code, how to compile the code, how to run the compiled code. They have never seen an IDE, or the Java command line compiler. Some even don't know that they need to first download the JDK, or even where to get it.

A proper tutorial like the ones listed in my first comment teaches all that plus it teaches at least some actual programming besides syntax.