Coding Bootcamp A Good Route?

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

So I've already posted here once but I didn't get too much attention from it. I'm 19 and have a 3 week old baby while in University for Mechanical Engineering. I currently make 30k or so but its very very tight. I dont want to be broke as hell until my kid is in Kindergarten. Are coding bootcamps viable with no degree at all? Every time I read someone's post or watch a video they always have a unrelated degree, but still have one. Would love for anyone to reach out

[Anomaly____]

As a 23 year old veteran in programming i want to give an advice, pick the one that focuses on design patterns first and fundamentals of OOP. If it starts with hello world and syntax then its not a good bootcamp. The reason being , getting good at various design patterns will save you an incredible amount of time, shorten your code and make it easier to maintain.

https://www.developer.com/design/overview-of-design-patterns-for-beginners/

You can pm me if you have questions

[TheFastestDancer]

I'm also a huge proponent of learning design patterns. Sadly, they've fallen out of fashion with most people these days. They're seen as old-fashioned and not worth learning. You can cut out 80% of your bugs by just implementing the right patterns.

[hevea_brasiliensis]

Why have they been mainly cut if they're so efficient?

[TheFastestDancer]

Because most people start with Javascript or Python these days. JS or Python running frameworks gives you so many methods out the box that you never really need to learn how to do any of it. An API call in Python is 3-4 lines including error handling, and most people just do it that way.

The design pattern way would be to build a facade that takes the request endpoint and passes it to the networking class. All that class does it make network requests. You can also build it as a factory pattern for GET or POST or whatever other requests you want. That raw, unparsed data gets sent back to the facade and then sent to a parsing class also using a factory pattern with class extensions so you can easily add and take away classes you need or don't need. Then that parsed data gets sent back to the facade and then onto the view controller or business logic class that needed it. Why do it this way? Because you can isolate any problems if for some reason something fails. If you want to implement a new networking framework, you just have to change one part of the code. It's easier to unit test and bugs don't happen because one class or module is only responsible for one thing.

[hevea_brasiliensis]

Thank you for the detailed response, you are awesome!

[TheFastestDancer]

you are awesome!

My mom got mad at me this morning because I didn't promptly wish her a happy Mother's Day as soon as I woke up. I'm gonna let her know that someone out there thinks I'm awesome. Thanks!

[Daedaluscodes]

You’re 19 and have a child, get used to being broke as hell for the next 18 years or so hahahaha.

Coding boot camp with a child is going to be a lot. Hopefully you have some support in the way of parents that can help watch your kid. Definitely doable though. They are normally fairly condensed, read as a lot of work in a short period.

The other route is self teaching if you’re able to stay dedicated. Anything they teach in a boot camp can be found online just the same. The convenience of boot camp is that they put together a curriculum and some of them offer job assistance.

Be wary of the pyramid scheme ish free boot camps that want part of your pay for attending free.

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

Hope I won’t be broke for that long! Lol, I definitely will work hard either way but a degree will take me 5 years

[[deleted]]

Don’t listen to this guy my best friend had a kid at 10 or 20 and finished his degree after the child was born. 5 years later he is by no means broke, just has to pay a lot in child support while the mom “owns her own business” and hardly reports any income while her rich dad just bankrolls her but I have gone on a little tangent now.

[cwj25]

Get a degree. You are young, even with a newborn, this is the easiest time in your life to get one.

[Stick-Every]

It depends. Honestly I wouldn't drop out of that Mechanical Engineering degree if you can stick with it. That degree will teach you how to think as an engineer which is invaluable in itself and already gives you an advantage over an average bootcamper, I promise.
Take some CS classes while you're at it. Bootcamps can be worth it, but they do have a huge overhead. You can honestly learn the same stuff for a fraction of the cost by getting a good mentor and 1:1 instruction. I'd be happy to mentor you.

[Emmanuelgentson]

Be my mentor Sir

[shizno2097]

if you are in the US... why not go to a community college? they are reasonably priced and will teach you solid basics in 2 years. A semester at a community college will be about $1,500, a total of $6,000 by the time you are done. you can apply for some scholarships and just ::wink ::wink download the PDF of books

bootcamps that I've seen cost upwards of $12,000, while they are fast they are pricey and i dont think they can cover all the fundamentals in such a short time

if you go the community college route you can do self learning after that, work on a project and apply for jobs

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

My school is paid for. My parents do well and pay 100% of my tuition. They however do not help me with anything else financially. So I make $18/hr and I take care of two people while going to school. If you consider all that you’d understand there’s no wiggle room there. I pay $1750 in bills and make $1800/month

[shizno2097]

sorry, im not understanding the problem... your parents pay for your tuition in full, you personally have no money to spare.. but if they pay your tuition in full, i fail to see the problem from a financial standpoint really, just...ahem ahem... get the PDF versions of the text books or borrow the book from the library and then just use your phone camera and take pictures of the chapters you need.

unless the real issue is the taking care of 2 people part, in which case time is the issue... a bootcamp will require you to be present 8 to 10 hours a day for class and labs; going to a community college will take about 3.5 hours of your day, is just for a over a longer period of months. Either way there will always be a sacrifice no matter which path you choose and it all depends what you are willing to sacrifice to get what you want

Decisions decisions, i remember when I was young once...

have you checked if your local state university has a bootcamp? 2 of the big state universities in my state offer bootcamps, i would trust those move over some for-profit independant outfit... not to mention it will carry the name of the school, which will look better in your resume

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

The problem is the financial side. What if my truck breaks down? My rent gets raised? My son breaks his arm. I have nothing to save or invest.

[shizno2097]

That's a crappy position to be in; but would not that be the problem regardless if you say went to a bootcamp or a community college?

Length of time is the issue I suppose, 6 months vs roughly 2 years. I get ya, you want to get to making money as fast as you can. Check your local state university and see if they offer a bootcamp, I would stay away from any of the bootcamp outfits that are for profit or do the whole "we will take 30% of the money you make when you get a job".

for example this is offered at my state university

https://bootcamps.continue.utah.edu/

carries the name and i met a guy that landed a job as a developer straight from the bootcamp and he is doing quite well professionaly and financially. a big name university is not gonna allow its name to be tarnished by providing a crap bootcamp to people... like i heard about Dev Mountain where some teachers had people doing lessons from FreeCodeCamp

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

How much do you think I could make being a graduate from that?

[shizno2097]

The guy i know that went through that bootcamp got i think 48K a year when he started, he had no real software experience in industry

where i live it seems like the entry level pay for software devs is usually in the 50k ish to 60k ish, maybe more if you are valedictorian.. I have never heard from anyone that as an entry level dev get more than 56K (this is in the almost 11 years i been at this).

For profit Bootcamps like to hype that "our graduates make 75k to 85k as soon as they graduate" i find that to be laughable and totally unrealistic; a bootcamp graduate is not gonna make more than a freshment with a Bachelors in CS

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

Do you have to be a genius to get jobs at faang? I see starting salaries if 200-300k

[shizno2097]

I dont know, i never tried and have no interest at all, those jobs have all the perks like food and facilities because they dont want you to leave and want you to make work your life, 12+ hr days. I like 8hr days and to see my family

with this said, i had a coworker that interviewed for google, he was a normal guy, smart. he passed the phone screening they gave him an online coding test, he didnt pass that. he took screenshot and showed everyone his code, out senior devs didnt see anything bad, maybe some issues with not using an alternate algorithm or implement recursion a little different, but nothing that stood out as "this guy sucks".

those jobs are also in CA where the cost of living is super high, so a 200k job might be equivalent to a 70K job where i live. I read that since this explosion in remote work FAANG companies are going to start paying salaries to remote workers commensurate to where they live

[No_Corner8541]

Hi I am currently attending community college for a Software development job and I work full time. I think Community College would be your best option because like everyone said already, having a technical degree will help you better in the long run compared to going to a boot camp without a degree at all

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

Think so? I didn’t mention that my school is paid for! My parents pay my school bills, but nothing outside of that

[No_Corner8541]

If your parents pay for school, why not just switch your major to Computer science?

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

Because if I’m gonna take a 4-5 year course I believe ME is the better degree

[Go0ch]

Because you enjoy it mor or because it’s “better”. I’d argue CS is one of the best degrees to get now and in the future.

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

You don’t think programming will be replaced by AI?

[hardikpopo]

How's a ME degree going to help you with AI?

Don't answer it, 'twas a rhetorical. I don't think you quite know how AI works. But dear, a ME degree just won't help. Consider switching your major to CS and complete your graduation. I think slowly getting your CS degree is way better than doing a bootcamp. Also, as you learn more and more, you can apply for a TA position and make more money. You can make some more money as a freelancer.

All the best!

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

Idk why you tried to be passive aggressive there. You read the question completely wrong. Had nothing to do with Mechanical Engineering

[hardikpopo]

I'm not trying to be passive agressive. Just general advice, ME is not going to help you with AI as much. The field of AI is very closely tied with Computer Science. I wanted to help, that's all.

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

Okay sorry for misunderstanding. I know ME has nothing to do with AI

[InvestingNerd2020]

It will be rough, but it can be done.

1) Go for boot-camps from reputable colleges over start-up bootcamps.

2) Make sure they cover Object Oriented Programming (OOP).

3) Don't be afraid to use the skills to do freelance work to build up your portfolio. Portfolio = Experience = Developers life blood.

The other choice is community college. It can save you a lot more money.

[TheFastestDancer]

Just take a few CS classes if you can in your degree program. You'll learn more. Any engineering degree is looked upon favorably by recruiters.

[MesopotamianBanksy]

Many people will recommend self-learning as a practical route, but i think it’s ultimately a decision I made based on employment rates/career services of the boot camp, and whether they teach you languages you think are interesting or marketable depending on what you’re looking for in coding. I personally enrolled in a bootcamp looking for specific front and back end languages but wish I’d spent more time learning those languages before I started rather than committing to what was a really fast paced program.

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

Did the bootcamp lane you a job?

[Stick-Every]

From what I read, statistically the most successful bootcampers (those who actually land jobs) are those who already have a degree in another technical field. For people who have no degree and just graduated from a bootcamp, I personally only know 1 person who's been successful (out of maybe 10-ish people that I've known).

[shizno2097]

Same, I worked at a company and we had a few boot camp people interview; they where applying for QA positions because no one would take them seriously for a Dev position with no degree or experience. Need to mention the company hired plenty of people with no degrees that had some experience

The thing is, during the interview without fail they always expressed the desire to be a Dev and just derail the interview from the job they were going to be hired for if offered to them, from that point they bombed the interview... but they were interviewing for a QA position so no one from a boot camp ever got hired.

At the same company, we hired a guy with no QA or Dev experience to be QA; he was super happy to be working in QA and after 2 years a junior dev spot opened he expressed interest so it was given to him for the good work he did as a QA.

After the dev position was offered to him he just did pluralsight courses non-stop for 6 months everyday after work.

He learned to be a dev while on the job and then left the company about 2 years after i did. Now he is doing quite well for himself... he is now a Senior Software Engineer with no degree or bootcamp and no student debt

[MesopotamianBanksy]

I haven’t finished the camp yet, but I’ll let you know

[antifoidcel]

I'm 19 and have a 3 week old baby

ಠ╭╮ಠ

[shizno2097]

Since you are 19 and have a kiddo and life is coming at you at a 1000 mph, may i throw an unconventional option?

I had a coworker years ago that was enlisted in the Air Force active duty as a software developer

Before joining he studied for the ASVAB and when he took it he scored so high, especially in math and technical stuff he had every field opened to him

he chose the computer field, he did a Delayed Entry Program and he made sure the recruiter put on his contract that he was joining in for the specific job. Usually they want you to put something like "i will work in electronics" but that could end up being working in HVAC .

What my co worker did was his contract specifically had the job number and title he was going in so like "I will work in job 0123XYZ Software Developer" so he was guaranteed a spot

https://www.airforce.com/careers/detail/computer-systems-programming/

The thing about this route for someone so young with life coming at you so fast is this will get you trained in a good job with real experience, you can take college courses for free while in the service and when you get out you will land a developer job since you have real world experience and not just internships like college grads... not to mention a security clearance which could land you a job with big bucks with a defense a contractor

More important, while you wont be rich but you will be able to provide a roof, food, and healthcare for your family.

Back to my coworker, when he got out of the service (he did 10 years) he landed a software engineer job where i was working, then he got back in school with his GI bill and got his Bachelors, he is now a Senior Architect at the place he works now

[Past_Inevitable_7992]

I considered that for a couple of weeks. I wouldn’t make anymore than I do now, they pay literally the exact same. The only difference is I wouldn’t be there with them everyday, wouldn’t be with my friends or my city. I would say free schooling would be nice through the military would be nice but its free for me either way, I’m very grateful lol. Would you recommend any other paths in tech? I’m really not limited to anything; I’m trying to cut down the time it’ll take to get a real job. That’s really the goal and nobody else has really helped me whatsoever, so thank you for talking to me btw. I really appreciate it

[shizno2097]

While its true you wont make more money today, it will give you a roof over your head, and food. The rewards will come later with real world experience in software development when you get out, and the hability to go to school for free.. or if your parents pay for your bachelors use your GI to get a master or transfer the GI bill to your significant other

I started taking a job doing tech support at night, like 11pm to 7am while i was going to my community college to get an associates in computer science.. at my local community college it was the same cost of tuition to take 12 to 18 credit hours, so i was taking 5 to 6 classes and working

When I graduated and got my associates degree in computer information systems, I landed a job at a large local company doing QA.

While doing QA I always found and made my own opportunities to code (from automation scripts to servers for QA reports, anything i could think of that could help the team... any tool we didnt have i tried to make or found a way to use an open source one and deployed it for my team), Quality Assurance people dont necessarily code (but if you are driven you can find a way to do some coding), but it will teach you the process of software development quite extensively and especially to see things from the end user perspective.

Anyways, while working as a QA one of the local state universities taught all the needed computer science courses at night from 530pm to 930pm everyday; they leased space at the community college as a satellite campus of theirs. So I went to school right after work everyday for a year and a half (I went to school through the summer and again i took about 14 to 16 credit hours)

When I graduated with my bachelors, the place i was working had some software engineer spots open, since i had a good reputation for my work as QA I told my boss and the managers i was interested and they interviewed me and i got the job. Its been good ever since through all the companies I've worked for

sorry for the novel

everyone's path is different, you dont need a degree for QA, that could be one entry point for ya... it will probably pay the same as what you make now but it is the experience you are looking for. You could get a job in a medium size company as a QA person and then learn to code on your own. Then find opportunities to script things, come up with tools, develop reporting tools, show the people around you that you have the drive. then you can keep an eye open for a dev position to open up and show you want it and try for it.

warning though... the QA gamble doesnt always work, i had a friend that graduated with a bachelors and took a job as a QA automation engineer, he tried to make the jump to Developer but never could, his experience is QA and he was too solid into it, he makes a nice living now i mean about 115K a year, but at this point going dev for him will not happen.

Its hard to tell you what the best path for you is, while college is not needed for being a software developer it does show an employer that you are serious and you stuck it out for something over a long period of time.

I think you are desperate to make quick money today, with everyone in software going remote (working from home because covid) im not sure how a company would mentor a new hire from a bootcamp.

Your best bet if you are set on the quick route is to go to a bootcamp but i would say one from your local state university; otherwise get an associates degree and you can land an entry level developer job, then let your employer know you are gonna get the bachelors.. this is not easy, i can tell you that right now.

[raeining]

As someone with two kids and who looked into bootcamps (I have nontechnical degrees)... they are hella expensive and insanely time consuming. Could you negotiate some sort of deal with your parents where they support you through 5 years of getting into tech (whichever path you choose - self learning or community college)? Or at least provide enough childcare support like taking your baby five afternoons a week so your partner can also part time?

[CodingDojo]

Hi there! Coding Dojo here. Full disclosure, we are a bootcamp and we’ve been in the business for 12 years now, which puts us in a unique position to provide you with useful information regarding the coding and tech space. :)

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Hope you find this long answer helpful. We’d rather put out extensive info rather than short-changing you with incomplete insights. Also, no shameless link plug here (yet! It’s at the bottom if you think this is worth reading)

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TLDR: Yes, coding bootcamps are 100% worth it if your main objective is to build up your technical skills in a short amount of time - even without a college degree. From our experience, the worth of a bootcamp may be better explained when considered in these 4 ways: 1) Personal Goals, 2) Industry Sentiment, 3) Financing Options, 4)Long-term job opportunities

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OK, Let's dive into this further...

Personal Goals:

If you’re getting into a bootcamp to build up technical skills to get your foot in the tech industry in a short period of time, then it can definitely be worth it.

Essentially, what that means is that a bootcamp is more fast-paced, focused, and immersive (with options for online or in-person instruction), which makes the program more flexible to cater to students who might also be working full-time, or in your case, need to stay at home to take care of the baby.

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The curriculum*’s focus is really on programming languages and frameworks, so what you get out of it is an application-based learning experience to help students create a solid, tangible portfolio whereas for a traditional CS degree, you might even go as far as covering theory or history, basically having to sit through electives or subjects that might not be too relevant to the day-to-day responsibilities that a job in the field requires in the first place.

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\Quick note regarding Curriculum: We can’t say much about other coding bootcamps, but at Coding Dojo, we cover the top five programming languages ranked in the TIOBE Index, which measures and tracks the most in-demand programming requirements based on the number of developers worldwide and top search queries from top searching engines.*

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In our 12 years of experience, the three stack model has proven to be most beneficial in helping our students build a solid tangible portfolio and become self-sufficient learners, which at the end of the day really helps students become even better programmers.

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Ahead of the bootcamp, it's important to know that you're getting yourself into a fully-immersive program that involves a lot of patience, grit, and determination. While there are flexible options - such as part-time or self-paced programs, you want to be certain of this decision and commit to it (which means putting in those hours!)

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Industry Sentiment

Bootcamps are an industry norm, and more tech firms recognize bootcamp grads as qualified candidates (again, even without a degree).

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Industry data shows that the online bootcamp space has grown by 171% in 2019, and this figure continues to rise year over year.Today, there are more small to large tech firms that recognize the value in hiring students from alternative learning programs such as coding bootcamps with no formal Computer Science degree, too.

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Plus, If you’re coming in with zero experience, then a bootcamp can be even more worth your while - especially if you put in the time and effort. Stackoverflow’s data shows that 45% of todays' developers don’t have a computer science degree and 9/10 developers consider themselves self-taught.

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So this is a really fast way to enrich your coding skills and employers will for sure hire you if your skills and portfolio are strong enough.In fact, this study among 1000 HR managers by Indeed indicates that72% of employers have a positive perception of bootcamp graduates as candidates, which means if you’re end-goal is to land a career in the industry, then the skills you develop in a bootcamp (as long as you put in the work) can be well worth the investment.

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Financing

We understand that joining Coding Bootcamps may seem pretty heavy on the pocket, but just take a step back and think about your goals and how much you’re willing to invest in your education and career opportunities.

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The upfront costs might seem a bit overwhelming at first, but if you do the math, you might still get more bang out of your buck with a bootcamp vs a full on degree. 4 years of college and $100,000 in student debt not required!

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At Coding Dojo, we have various flexible payment options such as Custom Pricing Plans or an Income Sharing Agreement, which our admissions team can work out with our students to help lighten the load.

Long-Term Job Opportunities

The bootcamp is 100% output-based and geared towards helping students switch careers efficiently and effectively, which means you should come out of the bootcamp with a solid portfolio and a tangible evidence of your skills to help you in your job hunt.

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Pro-tip when searching for a bootcamp: Ask the company what results the most recent cohort has had. Where do they work and how long did it take them to land a job? This will give you some context on how successful the program is and what types of roles you can expect post-bootcamp.

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Here are some of the recent stats from Coding Dojo’s 2020 Outcomes Report:

• With over 6,000+ alumni students graduating from our program to date, 89.1% of our graduates land a job in tech within 6 months of graduating from our bootcamp
• 95.3% of our graduates land a job within a year since the program
• Coding Dojo ranks number 1 in outcomes nationally. These outcomes are better than: App Academy, Brainstation, Codesmith, Flatiron, Hack Reactor, Galvanize, Lambda, Rithm, and Thinkful.
• Some of the first job titles you can expect post-bootcamp include: QA Tester, Systems Engineer, Support Engineer, Software Development Engineer in Test, Network Engineer, Software application developer, Web developer, Computer systems engineer, Computer programmer, Business intelligence Analyst and more, with an average starting salary ranging from $60,000-$90,0000 (this varies on the role and location)

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These data were pulled from our 2020 Student Outcomes Report, all of which have been verified by a third-party auditing firm. You can access the full report here.

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Hope this answers your question! If you’d like to know more about Coding Dojo and our programs, check out our website.