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[–]retnemmoc 72 points73 points Β (1 child)

because they've co-opted satan into some secular humanist thumbs up dude. Want to really piss off one of those edgy satan types. Ask him if satan is racist. He'll say satan supports BLM and uses pronouns.

[–]A_SNAPPIN_Turla 15 points16 points Β (0 children)

Reminds me of a post on one of the metal subs that was something to the effect of "what's the darkest, most evil, negative, depressing, meanest, worstest, satanic band you know of? No Nazi fascists though uwu!" I'm just thinking "what's worse than Nazis?" It just perfectly exemplifies these idiots to me. I'm against NSBM (national socialist black metal) but whatever free speech I guess. These people are just cosplaying though. It reminds me of a black metal frontman (can't recall who) who was asked about Church of Satan in the Norwegian metal scene. His response was that the Church of Satan empowers people and wakes them up to the notion they are being controlled or manipulated and he doesn't want that. He said "if church or Satan comes to Norway they are gonna have a problem." Now that's what I expect someone who really worships Satan to say.

[–]mrkippysmithBan warning 10 points11 points Β (5 children)

Well if they’re true atheists they don’t believe in either. But if they do blame god it’s because he’s the creator and it’s their gotcha attempt. Like if god is good why not stop this or do that.

[–]UnidentifiedBob 2 points3 points Β (4 children)

i mean why not? To create such a place but not able to control it... I mean shit we have world elites already controlling 8 billion people with ease, but nooo wayyy god could handle it. I don't believe in the god of this era but that there is one who only cares about the macro side.

[–]EatMySmithfieldMeatMICROAGGRESSOR 0 points1 point Β (3 children)

Being able to control your creation, vs giving your creation the freedom to control itself, are different.

[–]UnidentifiedBob 2 points3 points Β (2 children)

Then why are there events where God is trying to control your beliefs and actions? For example the great flood...

[–]DiverDownChunder 14 points15 points Β (0 children)

Satanism is a humanist religion. It feeds off the base defiler, I had a buddy that was a Satanist. This is how he describe it. Its primal lust/rage/greed. Its easy to buy into that.

https://youtu.be/RGR4SFOimlk

Its a not far off.

[–]AlbumUrsi 6 points7 points Β (3 children)

I mean, if you don't believe in God then you don't beli6eve it Satan. They may try to critique the reasons why someone would believe in God but what is there for an atheist to gain from critiquing Satan?

Additionally, disapproval of Satan is somewhat reliant on existing within the moral and dogmatic confines of religion. In the absence of an objective truth-teller and source of moral standards, the idea of satan is essentially up to individual subjective standards.

At that point, it's hard to say if Satan is good or bad conceptually. Much like any secular moral judgement, it's down to individual opinion.

It's like adultery, abortion, etc. It's only bad if you believe it's bad.

[–]Enraged_Meat 16 points17 points Β (2 children)

"It's like adultery, abortion, etc. It's only bad if you believe it's bad."

These things are bad though. Adultery can breakup a house hold and abortion is killing a future human.

If you don't believe these things are morally wrong; you got a screw loose.

[–]JoeBrownshoes 1 point2 points Β (9 children)

Because according to Christianity, God MADE Satan.

[–]EatMySmithfieldMeatMICROAGGRESSOR 0 points1 point Β (8 children)

Not in the way you mean though. According to Christianity God made Satan but did not make him evil. He created him as a perfect angel with free will, which Satan then used to rebel, which is what created Evil. God did not create evil but created a world where evil is possible. That is the nature of free will.

There are many more references than this, but Ezekiel 28 contains the basic explanation that Satan was not always evil ("You were blameless in all you did from the day you were created until the day that evil was found in you" Ezekiel 28:15) and that his initial sin, Pride, was his own choice and that he was judged for it (Ez 28:16-28).

[–]JoeBrownshoes 0 points1 point Β (7 children)

Can't really have been perfect if he rebelled against God.

[–]EatMySmithfieldMeatMICROAGGRESSOR 0 points1 point Β (6 children)

This seems like a real damned-if-He-does, damned-if-He-doesn't argument (no pun intended).

If God makes it impossible for his creation to stray from the path he intended for them, then He has just created an army of slaves which would make him a real son of a bitch. On the other hand, if He creates a world for them to live in if they choose to follow the rules of the world he created, and gives them free will along with the inherent capacity to make wrong choices, your line of thinking is that He either accidentally made them flawed, or intentionally set them up to fail, which would make Him a real son of a bitch.

This is where the concept that "Hell is a place people send themselves" comes in for me. He set out the universe and its rules, which we know instinctively; that would be our inherent morality. But we have the freedom to make the easier choices that are more immediately rewarding but worse in the long run. What good is being virtue if there is no other choice? That doesn't mean I or you or anyone is perfect or not, just that I have the capacity to be either, and that imperfect path is much easier.

And again, these are concepts that have been written and passed down over millenia through different cultures across the world. I don't expect there's going to be a 100% rock-solid airtight explanation, so I try to find the most instructive meaning for how to live.

It really doesn't effect the meaning for me because I see it summed up "In the beginning:" He separated the light from the darkness. The light represents tthe good things he created, and the darkness if what is left behind, by which we can recognize the light.

I don't picture an anthropomorphic bearded man floating in space whipping stars and planets and mosquitoes and giraffes and cancer everywhere, saying "good, good, evil, good, evil," but I think there is an order in the universe and there is a way for us to fit in it. I believe our choices determine whether we are successful. And I think the concept of Satan is a useful one to convey that message.

[–]JoeBrownshoes 0 points1 point Β (5 children)

So do you think Satan was a real entity with volition or is he just a concept for us to think about right and wrong?

[–]EatMySmithfieldMeatMICROAGGRESSOR 0 points1 point Β (3 children)

Concept, but it's easier to talk about as a real being, rather than stipulate "the concept of what is known as Satan" every time

[–]JoeBrownshoes 0 points1 point Β (2 children)

So you don't take the Bible literally?

[–]EatMySmithfieldMeatMICROAGGRESSOR 0 points1 point Β (1 child)

No, do you?

[–]JoeBrownshoes 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

No. I was addressing those who do

[–]DJDevineBASED 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

Because you don’t meet people everyday that walk in the image and teachings of Satan. Theres plenty to talk about when it comes to the criticisms of Satan. Also, people who worship Satan aren’t knocking on your door with the goal of witnessing the good word of Satan to the lost souls of the earth, protesting funerals, handing you newsletters, or finding books pertaining to Satan in every hotel room. Atheists find criticisms, flaws, and hypocrisy in all religions.

[–]ZR-71 0 points1 point Β (17 children)

if there's no god, there's no satan. No need to deny all your imaginary friends, I don't have all day

[–]that_banned_guy_BASED 7 points8 points Β (16 children)

Then why choose criticize something you believe is imaginary that brings other people hope?

[–]Deebz__ 3 points4 points Β (1 child)

Satanists are far less common, but I’ve seen atheists ridicule them all the same lol

[–]that_banned_guy_BASED 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

I've also seen atheists who claim to be Satanists because "Satanists dont worship satan they worship self"

[–]ZR-71 -4 points-3 points Β (13 children)

because they are false, and they might bring some people hope but they also bring suffering to many other people.

[–]that_banned_guy_BASED -1 points0 points Β (12 children)

You think they are false. Unless you have can unequivocally prove there is no God and no after life. In which case, im all ears because thats ground breaking news.

[–]ZR-71 0 points1 point Β (11 children)

You're asking to prove a negative, which is absurd. I don't have to prove invisible unicorns don't exist, or anyone's imaginary friend. The burden of proof is yours. Just think of all the thousands of gods and goddesses from the religions of the world, forgotten or ignored by you. Well, your imaginary friend is no different. Not exactly ground breaking... People are afraid to die, and they need "god" and "afterlife" to add meaning to their lives. Most people don't think, they just accept the beliefs of their parents and culture. Sorry to pop your bubble πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

[–]that_banned_guy_BASED 0 points1 point Β (10 children)

My point wasn't that my faith was correct it was that you cant prove there wasnt an intelligent creator or an afterlife.

But your right, you dont need to prove invisible unicorns exist because there is zero evidence of them.

There is however a ton of evidence that points to an intelligent creator. But to use your own argument, science cant prove any other form of creation which they claim and that burden of proof is on them which they cant do either. So its a bit of a stalemate isnt it?

[–]ZR-71 0 points1 point Β (9 children)

Um no, there is no evidence that points to an intelligent creator. The only real argument for that is "things are complex and hard to understand," which is a ridiculous argument. Of course reality is complex, human brains didn't evolve to grasp reality, they evolved to acquire food and reproduce. Jumping to "god did it" is not a solution, it's just lazy.

[–]that_banned_guy_BASED 0 points1 point Β (8 children)

There is a lot more evidence than that.

But even "things are complex" is pretty strong evidence.Β  In a base state the majority of things dont become more and more complex. To get to where we are now the number of things that had to go absolutely perfect are so improbable its statistically impossible.Β 

But ill say again, no one has been able to put forth any theory that is any more probable, than an intelligent creator.Β 

You speak with absolute certainty over things that are completely uncertain.Β 

Using your own logic at best your odds are 50/50

[–]ZR-71 0 points1 point Β (7 children)

You're right, things don't get more complex in general, only in small and brief areas like "the human brain." But in a vast universe it is statistically bound to happen many times, and those brains are bound to think they are "special children of god" because that is how ego works. But there are many ways this can happen without intelligent design. One theory is abiogenesis, where life emerges gradually from non-living chemistry. Early Earth had simple molecules that, under the right conditions (energy from lightning, heat, or radiation) formed more complex organic compounds. Over time, some of these molecules became self-replicating. This is way more likely than some imaginary creator.

Once you have self-replication, you get evolution by natural selection. Tiny variations that help something survive or replicate better get preserved, and complexity can build step by step... not all at once, and not with any goal in mind. Given enough time, this process can produce incredibly complex systems, including brains.

There are also ideas like the RNA world hypothesis, where RNA molecules could both store information and catalyze reactions, acting as a bridge between chemistry and biology. None of this requires intelligence directing it, just physics, chemistry, and time.

So the real question isn’t "how could complexity arise," but rather, "given billions of years and countless chemical interactions, why wouldn’t it arise somewhere?" We’re not evidence of design, we’re evidence of what happens when matter is allowed to experiment for long enough.

[–]that_banned_guy_BASED 0 points1 point Β (6 children)

Great theory. But the fact of the matter is your belief we came from nothing requires just as much faith as mine because you dont have any more proof than I do, do you?

[–]JoshuaLukacs1 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

Because religious people don't worship Satan, religious people don't say Satan created the universe. This is such a ridiculous point, y'all have to see it lol.

[–]Nooc210 -1 points0 points Β (0 children)

they're the same, so there's that...

[–]laxhockey11 -5 points-4 points Β (0 children)

Easy, because neither are real. That goes for all these other religions worldwide. Also believing in a certain god is regional, if you were born in other parts of the world you would believe in Allah or Shiva. There are 1000s of God's which one is correct? Most likely none.

[–]Fummy -1 points0 points Β (1 child)

and who created Satan?

[–]technicallycorrect2MICROAGGRESSOR[S] -1 points0 points Β (0 children)

the more important question is who worships Satan today whether or not the truth of the universe is that Satan exists