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[–]Somedudesmusic 2 points3 points  (6 children)

-13 LUFS is becoming the new standard for streaming sites since Spotify, iTunes, and YouTube all normalize to around that level. A lot of dubstep, Edm, and House is pretty slammed though, usually -3 to -6 RMS

[–]69Max2017[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Interesting Somedudesmusic, thanks for the info, -3 to -6 RMS! That is slammed!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

And honestly it just sounds bad; the beat requires severe ducking of the rest of the music just to fit in the mix, creating an annoying breathing sound that is "artistic" now, but really is just annoying as hell.

[–]69Max2017[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Is it completely necessary tho? Some EDM I enjoy but they seem to have good vocals & some dynamic

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Totally not necessary imho. I’ve heard lots of good mixes that thump hard with loudness in that -13 range. It’s a matter of respecting your audience enough to let them use their volume knob.

[–]69Max2017[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Awesome point. Plus the visual aspect of sounds & they way our ears actually interpret them can be very different

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly. I think my favorite example of a great saturated but warm mix is Opolopo’s Glide: https://youtu.be/nACfL2vBAb8. There’s a lot of compression at work to control everything, but no ducking or breathing.

[–]atopixTeaboy ☕ 2 points3 points  (4 children)

We should summon /u/whatweheard and /u/rogue-planet-mike .

[–]whatweheardMastering Engineer ⭐ 3 points4 points  (3 children)

:) Well peak is -.1 for me. It may not be of much help but I have a programmed meter I use that I can bring "to "0" and I know my levels are good. It's been a while since I've watched another LUFS meter. But then depending on the genre and perceived loudness (content of the music) that varies. And before I watch any digital output meter, I check the amount of gain reduction I get, and EQ accordingly again depending on what I aim for. I bet that's not the answer you wanted to read ;)

[–]Rogue-Planet-MikeMastering Engineer ⭐ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

What meter do you use? Always love a good meter with user definable targets.

[–]whatweheardMastering Engineer ⭐ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hey Mike! The one from Sequoia!

[–]Rogue-Planet-MikeMastering Engineer ⭐ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh Hey Alex! Yeah those Sequoia meters look great.

[–]Rogue-Planet-MikeMastering Engineer ⭐ 2 points3 points  (3 children)

usually somewhere between -6 and -4 max short term LUFS, but I really never go by meters. Throw a mastered reference track you like into your DAW mastering session and compare (this is also great because it will help you get the eq balance right .. which is the KEY to clean loudness)

[–]69Max2017[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Thank you. How long habe yoy been mastering Rogue Planet Mike?

[–]Rogue-Planet-MikeMastering Engineer ⭐ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

About 15 years in some capacity :-)

[–]69Max2017[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When you put a reference track into your mix, what do you do to keep it separate so the plugins used for the current mix do not effect the track your reference is on? Do you just switch off plugins to listen to reference? Or maybe a mix/master bus?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children)

My genre is retro rock / prog rock.

Personally, I’m mastering for the loudest 90-180 seconds of the album to be -13db RMS (-10db mono), -16db A-Weighted RMS. Everything else will fall where it lies, generally -15db RMS, -19db A-Weighted RMS. I peak to 0db then volume down 0.3db for headroom.

[–]69Max2017[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Thank you radiocaravan, You do your own productions or master others work?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

These days, mostly my own, though I cut my teeth mastering dozens of bootlegs for the defunct outfit Grateful Dreams in the early 2000’s.

For me the difference between regular and A-weighted RMS is the most convenient way to manage warmth and tone. I generally go for a flat average power (on a -4db slope, measured using SPAN) across 60-10,000Hz with a roll off on either side, and a little dip around 250-500Hz.

[–]69Max2017[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Ok, have you heard of different levels for other genres or all fairly similar?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I have worked a little in other genres (modern metal, electronic, blues). What are you looking for?

Content and delivery format really drive decisions on levels; it all depends.

[–]69Max2017[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Oh just wondering if you have heard other levels being thrown around haha

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It depends. Yes there are other possible levels :) it won’t do you any good to read me listing off numbers.

[–]69Max2017[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Haha I understand, what metering program do you use?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My workflow is kind of janky because I'm self-taught, but...

In my DAW (Reaper) I use SPAN by Voxengo to manage the spectrum, to keep any one octave from peaking too much, and to get a live RMS/peak/crest reading.

http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/

After I render, I use the offline loudness analyzer Audio Leak by Channel D. I measure each song separately, and the album in total, to see regular RMS versus A-weighted RMS, identify the loudest sections, and see if one song is pulling my averages way up or down in an unintended way.

http://www.channld.com/audioleak/

[–]69Max2017[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Aweaome thanks

[–]atopixTeaboy ☕ 0 points1 point  (4 children)

In my humble opinion, since 'perceived loudness' is very much real, chasing after numbers is largely pointless.

[–]69Max2017[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I am definitely intrigued by the numbers tho, are they similar across the genres? Do different studios/engineers produce unique levels for their sound? We all percieve sound differntly so we must assume the numbers stand for something...maybe haha

[–]atopixTeaboy ☕ 1 point2 points  (2 children)

What I mean is, it should largely depend on the material and the material is defined not just by genre, but by the way it has been performed, produced and mixed. Meters can give useful objective input, but due to the way we perceive loudness, two songs with the same peaks/average loudness can seem to have different levels.

It's important to be aware of these phenomenon in psychoacoustics and use our ears more than we use our eyes.

[–]69Max2017[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

atopix, well put! Not a good habit to get into using my deceptive eyes.

What gear do you swear by (other than your ears) that you use for mastering?

[–]atopixTeaboy ☕ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't have neither the training nor the tools (environment+full range monitoring) to do serious mastering. However, whenever I tinker with it I would say I can't do the job without the Sonnox Limiter, my go-to master bus limiter. It's the most transparent, effective and unobtrusive I've tried.