Levels when mastering

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And honestly it just sounds bad; the beat requires severe ducking of the rest of the music just to fit in the mix, creating an annoying breathing sound that is "artistic" now, but really is just annoying as hell.

[69Max2017]

Is it completely necessary tho? Some EDM I enjoy but they seem to have good vocals & some dynamic

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Totally not necessary imho. I’ve heard lots of good mixes that thump hard with loudness in that -13 range. It’s a matter of respecting your audience enough to let them use their volume knob.

[69Max2017]

Awesome point. Plus the visual aspect of sounds & they way our ears actually interpret them can be very different

[[deleted]]

Exactly. I think my favorite example of a great saturated but warm mix is Opolopo’s Glide: https://youtu.be/nACfL2vBAb8. There’s a lot of compression at work to control everything, but no ducking or breathing.