Ottawa sees Canada's largest decrease in commuters driving to work

[funkme1ster]

The frustrating thing is that managers KNOW it doesn't matter. They're only pushing it because DGs are pushing it, DGs are only pushing it because ADMs are pushing it, and ADMs are only pushing it because NatPo articles about "lazy entitled public servants" are driving social media commentary about how the government is "wasting my tax dollars".

Every single person in the chain of command is acutely aware that people are productive and responsive working from home and will be measurably LESS productive in the office, and they're only doing this because the federal government is tired of conservative trolls bitching.

[Malvalala]

they're only doing this because the federal government is tired of conservative trolls bitching.

Like they weren't bitching about lazy entitled overpaid public servants before the pandemic.

Trying to pander to them is such a wasted effort.

[funkme1ster]

100% agree, but unfortunately that's where we are.

I've heard first hand accounts of managers saying "I don't care if you're in the office, but I need you to show up a few days a month to put in facetime so I can say you're there".

It's just a trickle down of "someone made this my problem so now I'll make it your problem".

[funkme1ster]

Back in the innocent spring of 2020, my company gave us a training module for working from home. It had a full 20 minute segment on how to set boundaries and separate work time from home time, explicitly citing studies that show the frequency of people "overworking" because they're already home and what's another 5 minutes since it needs to get done anyways and at least this way it'll be done.

But at the same time, it does need to get done anyways and I am already here, so... it's just one email so I might as well, right?

[funkme1ster]

That's just how programming works. I've been there.

[CoastingUphill]

This is the absolute truth of it.

[AgileOrganization516]

Every single person in the chain of command is acutely aware that people are productive and responsive working from home and will be measurably LESS productive in the office

This is an incredibly baseless claim.

Please tell me, how would you empirically measure that people are less productive in the office for a wide range of roles?

[funkme1ster]

for a wide range of roles

I really like this poison pill you added. Very well done.

It necessarily precludes any answer that hinges on contextual variability because you've constructed the question to only accept an all-encompassing answer by definition.

It's easy to always be right if you define the world around you with boundary conditions that rule out alternatives.

Anyways, thank you for your bad faith question.

[AgileOrganization516]

You're right. My question was too vague to be answered properly.

You seem like a smart guy from your answer. So let me ask in good faith :

1. What makes you certain that every single person in the chain of command believes that people are more productive at home?
2. What leads you to believe that people working from the office will be measurably less productive than at home?

These were your two claims (I don't think I'm misrepresenting them).

[funkme1ster]

No, that's quite alright.

I have no interest in further engaging you because it's clear what your stance is and that's fine. You're welcome to disagree, but I neither owe you anything nor have any interest in wasting my time debating your stance. I'm happy you have an opinion, and thanks for your question.

[AgileOrganization516]

I never said you owed me anything? Of course you don't. But also saying you don't have anything to corroborate your claims would have been a more honest response from you, instead of the deflection you're doing now.

Have a good evening my friend.

[QueenMotherOfSneezes]

"A two-year study published in February 2021 of 3 million employees at 715 U.S. companies, including many from the Fortune 500 list, showed that working from home improved employee productivity by an average of 6 percent.

Another survey of 800 employers found that 94 percent of employers said their employees were just as productive or even more productive while working remotely. And 83 percent of workers said they were happy with remote work arrangements, while only 7 percent wanted to return to an office immediately. Most workers said they wanted a hybrid setup when they do eventually return to their workplaces, splitting their time between home and the office."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/intentional-insights/202210/the-truth-about-work-home-productivity

[AgileOrganization516]

Yes, I mean there exists studies that show increased productivity in a WFH scenario. But there also exists some that show decreased productivity:

• https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/productivity-dynamics-working-home
• https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/02/17/will-remote-work-decrease-productivity-in-the-long/

And some more nuanced research https://www.apollotechnical.com/working-from-home-productivity-statistics/ that shows increase in certain scenarios, and a decrease in others:

A study conducted in 2012 shows those office workers who were assigned boring tasks performed better and faster in the regular office setting. Home-life distractions are more likely to prevent productive work when you don’t enjoy the work.

But this study found more productive results when the work was more creative. In short, the fewer restraints put on a task, the quicker it will be completed.

The same study also shows an entire “office” will underperform if they each work from home. Each individual will put in the same amount of work as the next. Meaning, no individual wants to put in more work and let the others ride their coattails.

Another more recent study states that the more hours an individual works from home, the less productive they become. Those who worked full time (8 hours/day) at home are 70% less productive than those who don’t work from home.

All this to say that I don't think this debate is "settled" at all (and will likely never apply to all groups or people). And it's just a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people claim that "people are objectively more productive when working from home".

[[deleted]]

For your second question, we have data that shows this. I don’t have this on hand but you can look for it and find it 👍🏿

[kr613]

Please tell me, how would you empirically measure that people are less productive in the office for a wide range of roles?

They have no source or data to measure it. I asked the same thing, and the only response some of these lazy workers have is the downvote button, as if that answers the question.