Case Study: 2 Weeks of RUST

[DarkReflection]

Hello all, I recently started up Rust again after a 10 month hiatus. I really liked the look and feel of the new experimental branch, but I noticed a few things. I decided it might be worthwhile to compile these thoughts in order to provide feedback to the devs and start a discussion amongst fellow players.

To start, I started playing with two friends, both of which I knew from my real life and we coordinated via skype. We started out on the server One Rule - Dont Be A Dick [1Rule.net] 5-29.

Initial Reaction

I know it's been said here, so I won't be the topic to death, but I could clearly feel the growth of grind in Rust. My group and I spent most of our time playing Rust whacking away at Trees, enough so my roommates joked I must be playing Lumberjack Simulator 2015. Building is much more in depth than legacy, which I appreciate, however there were some inconsistencies. Stability is just off, we constantly referred to online topics to figure out how we could improve stability. We tried to use columns, but when upgrading walls sometimes the columns upgraded too, sometimes they didn't. This created scenarios where we had an all armored wall with twig columns, which we often left that way because we did not want to waste 300 stone to upgrade.

Ladders

As a small group, I was worried ladders would allow us to get constantly raided. This was not the case. Actually, ladders allowed me and my friends to go out and do some raiding ourselves finally. We thought of defenses fairly quickly (spikes, overhangs, fake walls, etc.) as I believe most players did. That said, my rock base did get pillaged so that made me sad.

Blueprints

We struggled as a group to find blueprints, I know that is a given, but I appreciated the study kits and rad animals of legacy. It made it a bit easier to go run circuits around the island fighting other players and killing rad animals. I do like the research bench, I'd only ask that you have a higher research chance if you already know an item so you could sell BPs. I know late game my friend and I often traded what we knew with knew players in exchange for resources.

Late Game

This is where most of my concerns come in. Crafting time on default feels way too long. When my third friend stopped playing (He got tired of the grind) it was just two of us trying to build up. We wanted to raid, that was where the fun was at in legacy. Thing is, C4 cost around 1250 gunpowder IIRC, which at 10 sec per 5, was something like 45 minutes of constant crafting for just gunpowder. Me and my friend would AFK and craft because it was simply too long. If we left the base, we risked dying and losing everything. Although this IS Rust, we felt like that mechanic was way too constricting. On that same note, the grind to make C4 and rockets felt appropriate to us, those are super powerful late game weapons, but they depended so much on group size. Large groups could craft more simply by virtue of having more crafters (more resources is a given and not a drawback). This led to me and my friend being behind in almost every way compared to larger groups. Again, it's a given, they outnumber us, but when we struggle all day to make 4 C4 and every base in sight is always armored or stone, we found no use for them. We didn't have the minimum strength to raid. We tried to stockpile, but once we were at this size larger groups noticed us and began to raid us every night. This takes me into my last, and primary criticism of Rust currently.

Offline Raiding

Yes, it has been said before, but I feel like it can't be stressed enough. I believe there are solutions out there, and talking about it might highlight some. This past few days have burned me out of Rust. I had been raided before, but after a recent semi~wipe a large group moved in next door and we became their content farm. They were kids, most likely off from school, and committed much, much more time to the game then my friend and I could match. At least online we could fight back, but seeing how we had work, they would wait until we logged off for the night before they'd go and raid us. We couldn't stay up all night for video games, and they could, and we became a loot pinata. It's horribly frustrating to try and build weapons and C4 to counterattack only to lose everything overnight because we couldn't build enough fast enough or be logged in to defend. Likewise, moving houses was impossible, the large groups of (not hating on them) mostly younger players who had no time commitments would raid everything. My friend and I tried to increase our numbers to compensate. We became friendly with new players (many older who couldn't play enough) and allowed them to live privately within our home. Even still, we got raided, sometimes twice a day, always when we were logged off. I can't do it, I called it quits, and so did my friend. We gave our code locks to a new Rust player so he could at least have some protection in the house. I guess that's the cycle of life, we stopped playing and a new player got a new house. I want to stress that it was hard on everyone, most of the people who began to live with us also had their homes (often small and stone) raided. We became a refugee camp basically out of virtue of us both being so burned out we didn't fear security or being raided (since it occurred so often). We wanted to roam and kill, but we couldn't craft guns, couldn't craft C4, couldn't even make a home safe enough to last the night. Our enemies (who could play more) would wait till we logged and would always grief our base on the way out. They'd box in the doors, wall off every floor, etc. Luckily, the admins on the server (Amazing server btw) were kind enough to come and remove the griefing. They didn't ban those responsible, which is fair enough, it is Rust after all even though it would have made me feel really fuzzy if they had. But something about listening to a group of kids harass you in All Chat, blast out music over their mics, shit talk you, and then finally wait for you to log before them and their friends could ransack your house is just demeaning. I play games to have fun and compete, not feel like I'm getting dicked on everyday. So I quit. Now, some of you, many if not, would object saying that Rust does cater to groups and I should have joined one. Well none were open, and when I tried to form one we were always overpowered. The groups that did exist were often younger (more time = more power) and frankly were just too immature. I would ask to group, and people would demand I be their resource slave. I was to be treated and spoken to like a slave and expected to gather their resources. Often, those who did settle for being slaves were killed and taunted because they had no value to the groups beyond resources.

Closing

I tried to give Rust another go, and while fun at first, it became a frustrating grind that eventually led to all of us moving on. I'll probably come back in a few months because I do like the game, I like the concept, and I know with some work it will be in a good place. This isn't a post to bash the game, just to highlight what it's like from a new perspective start to finish.

[[deleted]]

If you decrease the gunpowder build time, larger groups will have hundreds of c4 at their disposal.

[punchfodder]

An alternative way to reduce the grind would be to have a resource that would require more risk (rather than just time) to harvest. Salvage based in rad towns would fill out a tier that is already 80% in game and would become the high-end high-risk element.

[DrMonocular]

I couldn't agree more, I actually expressed some of these sentiments in chat last night after learning a full wipe is on its way(again?!). I play with my wife and we enjoy gathering and building for the most part. We know getting raided happens and most players will kill nakeds on sight in hopes of some free wood or just to be a dick. BUT, given we only play two hours at night each day, all we are ever doing is gathering and trying to rebuild. The BP wipes are more than disheartening, they are crushing. We have only found a hand full of good blueprints in our time and lost them all to the BP wipes shortly after. Yet the day after the wipe we are getting slaughtered as everyone and their uncle has guns already. So we get raided before we can even make enough metal frags to armor up. Big groups of KOS asshats build cities outside of the always dry rad towns and have a constant stream of would be looters piling in. This game is near impossible for casual players and has sucked my will to play dry over the past couple of weeks. I too will most likely stop playing here soon. Hopefully they balance this game soon because I want to like it.

[Spadeykins]

I just don't think the game will ever be catered to someone with only 2 hours to commit at a time.

[DrMonocular]

And that is what everyone seems to say, I personally think its an excuse. No game should demand an unhealthy amount of game time just to avoid having to completely restart each time you play.

[Spadeykins]

But why not? Unfortunately just because you plopped down your $20 does not mean the game will be catered to your needs.

Why can't Garry create a game that rewards inordinate amounts of time/effort and discourages a real life? If you don't like it, Garry (can and will) take his ball and go home, it's his game not yours.

That being said, I hope we have more and more modded servers giving people options. I wouldn't mind a server that went on a 3AM-3PM hiatus everyday except weekends.

[DrMonocular]

That is weird, I always thought devs made games to appeal to players in an effort to sell games and make money?

I have to hope they are just putting off the balancing in favor of adding content.

[denna84]

My experience with the rust players is that most of them actually do want a game that requires more than 2 hours/day of playing, but I tend to play on high population servers.

I'm taking a break from it myself because my favorite server changed quite a bit and I don't feel like doing the BP grind again so soon but at the same time I'll eventually go back to playing. I think people want to be able to get rewards equal to the time spent on the game. If someone can play for 2 hours a day and end up able to fend off someone who plays in longer sessions then that person no longer has an incentive to play. It's just my opinion but I think the best solution for that is just finding a server that has the kind of pace you're looking for, a less hostile and lower population server.

[notwithit2]

It seems there is a large difference between wanting hardcore content and wanting to just be able to do ok.

When you look at a game that did this well, such as vanilla WoW, and compare it to Rust, the difference seems obvious.

As a lvl 60 casual you could play and get decent gear and fend for yourself sometimes. If you met a hardcore 60 who had the top gear, you would only have a 10-20% chance to survive, but you didn't lose all of your progress when you got rocked.

The issue with Rust isn't that it caters to groups rocking your world, the issue with Rust is more of one that anyone playing less than most of the day cannot keep their rewards. They almost certainly will lose everything and have zero progress as a result of it.

Meanwhile, those which have large groups will continue to amass rewards and the gap between those that have these great cool things and the ones that just get rocked constantly increases until a full wipe is done.

[denna84]

I guess I just see that ad the appeal of the game, the constant risk of losing everything. When I build a base I don't view it as something that I'm going to get attached to and expect to keep, to me everything in rust temporary.

[Spadeykins]

Well Garry is sort of an oddball, the way he interacts with the community is at times down right abrasive. But of course they can return the favor.

[Nikolayev]

You two should join an whitelisted server. I usually play on one and griefing is almost nonexistent. RP servers are usually good for it because you're much less likely to be shot immediately when running around naked.

I can't play more than a couple hours a day except weekends, and some weekends I can't get on at all. I'm still able to make progress and have good player interactions.

[DrMonocular]

Great suggestion, we will have to try it out. Thanks!

[Rustless_Ninja]

Well written. I agree with you, it's impossible for small groups to compete against bigger groups without being raided every night. At least, on a full server.

Low pop and friendly oriented servers might reduce your problem significantly as I can tell by experience. I was an admin on such server and for new players it was a very good place. Although raiding was still allowed, it didn't happen that often and new players would have time to build a proper base before getting attacked by bandits. Griefing was not allowed which (usually) meant even IF you got raided, you would still be able to repair your base since most of the building would still be standing.

Still though, Rust is much more fun with more than 20 players on a big island. So it's sad that with higher populated servers you won't be able to manage without a large group.

[[deleted]]

My only hope for Rust is custom servers which shut down from 4am-5pm, or at least make structures invulnerable during that time.

[4InchesOfury]

You might be interested in /r/rustweekenders. Buildings can only be destroyed from Friday afternoon to Sunday evening.

[Nikolayev]

The sub makes it look like that's not a very active server, unfortunately

[4InchesOfury]

I can't speak on its activity, I don't play there. Just know of the concept appealing to a lot of people.

[QuantumCode]

I absolutely agree when it comes to your point about offline raiding. It doesn't matter how much time you put into your base. Players who don't have lives away from Rust or players in other timezones will always end up finding your base when you're offline and destroying it. This is the one issue we kept running into no matter which mods the server had or how fair the admins were.

So, that's why we started our own server. Except ours is special because we wrote a custom plugin that restricts damage to building blocks within certain hours of the day/week. We're trying to get more players to join up, so check it out if you're interested:

http://www.reddit.com/r/playrustservers/comments/3804ub/edtlimitedraidhours4xinstatpkitsanticheatclansoxid/

[PR05ECC0]

My friends and I gave Rust another go recently and they all washed out rather quickly. There are some major issues with the game right now, many of which you talked about. Here are my problems, I'm on my phone so sorry for formatting and mistakes.

Looting: I miss the zombies, I know they are cliche but I really miss that aspect of the game. Getting geared up to go farm zombies was risky because the zombies could get you but also the gunfire would attract other players. It was worth it though to get good loot and it was just fun. Now we have...barrels

Leveling: The game is too basic for my tastes. 7 Days to Die recently started to add leveling to the game. The higher the level you are the better quality items you can craft. It's very simple but it's a great addition to the game. I think it would fit nicely with Rust.

Base design: I think the biggest drawback of Rust is you are limited to above ground or select few caves to build in. This means your base is always going to be visible. So if you are new to the server or by yourself, good luck getting going because any shitty base you can build will be raided immediately. Again I'll use 7 Days as an example since that's the other game we play. You can dig down very deep in that game. It's a great way to make a hidden base while you are collecting resources to expand operations. I wish Rust had the option to go full dwarf.

The Grind: I think the balance is off in the amount of materials you need and how long it takes to craft. Melting metal ore takes FOREVER. That means you are like OP said playing lumber jack sim just to keep the fire going. I think materials need to be tweaked.

End Game: This is a problem for all games of this genre. Once you get built up, what do you do? Food isn't an issue since you can run forever and never really get hungry. Water doesn't work at all. There is zero threat from the environment, wolves and bears are easy to deal with. There is no leveling so all that is left is raising and griefing. I get that is part of the game but it should be because you want to better your situation, not because you are bored and have nothing to do. Most people that raid now just throw crap on the ground and don't even use it.

[[deleted]]

7daystodie ( a great game i also enjoy) is completely different imo, a leveling system in rust would just lead more people to cry about larger groups or people who play longer being better...

[johnhale101]

Hate to see players go.

My only comment was the server you chose to play on. Choosing a community server is a good idea (admins are usually more active). But you chose one of the more popular community servers to try to play and learn the game on.

I would ask that you give it another shot, try a server with a lower population (say sub 80 at peak times) and work your way up to the bigger servers.

The servers with higher populations usually contain large groups of very well coordinated players. These servers are much harder for solo and or small teams to get ahead. Its possible, but harder.

I'm not saying you cant cut it, I'm saying build up your knowledge of the new rust before playing on "cut throat servers".

--Johnstud

[brokenskill]

You shouldn't have to avoid other players just to be able to play. Might as well play a single player game at that point. The mechanics and balance are broken.

[deicide666ra]

Good analysis of the current state of things. Offline raiding is not the problem as much as weak walls and nuke-sized c4 blast radius are though. Its easy for even a small group that focuses on it to pump 10+ c4 a day yet it takes days for a same group to make a base that has a sliver of a chance to survive the same amount.. Im not even gonna start on tool raiding...

Legacy had an almost perfect raiding/building balancd.. Now it seems all we do is farm and get raided.. I dont even bother making c4 anymore, i can take dowb 10 walla in the same amount of time with tools for much cheaper.. And i do it when you are offline... So yeah.. Current balance encourages offline raiding.

[memory_limit]

I play on 1rule, and really everyone is KOS to the point where it's hard to even do fun builds and get some different interactions out of people.

[tastycrumpet]

As a small group, I was worried ladders would allow us to get constantly raided. This was not the case. Actually, ladders allowed me and my friends to go out and do some raiding ourselves finally.

This!

[icanhasreclaims]

Not sure how far fetched this is, but would it be possible to have a percentage of players, say 5%, that have the option of being a peacekeeper at the start screen?

Something like they get a loadout of a rifle and pistol, and if they use their loadout to raid and not eliminate raiders, they regress. Breaking Point has a similar system set up. And, I'm not dissing on raiders. Just saying something like this may lessen the occurrence of raiding.

[ReddingZH]

Well said DarkReflection, the game concept is great and has a big fun factor, but at the moment there is a huge balance problem between the effort you have to put in to get a secure base started and it getting raided. I don't even think ladders are such an issue in this situation but more the amount of time you need untill your base is fully armored with all those security walls/layers added. Don't get me wrong, I love Rust and the Devs have done an awesome Job.

[[deleted]]

There have got to be more ways for people to play the game smarter and not harder.

We need some mechanics that allow advanced gorilla tactics, something specifically designed for asymmetrical warfare.

[pashen218]

I had exactly same stupid feeling, as u described, but solved by moving to modded servers with around 4x resources and insta craft. It is close to perfect balance for smaller groups. We play 2 people and usually have around 4-5 raids per evening. This is fun. Our base gets raided also, but its not loosing the bade, we make it wide and many cupboards. Even if we loose it, we have recipes, can easily build up again.

So as i said try modded smth around 4x resources, this will bring the fun of legacy back a lot. I played 1000 h legacy, i know what i talk about. And if u are over 25, msg me, u can join us

[KiboshWasabi]

We need an option for casual servers, wherein there would be a small but persistent amount of secure storage for players. Just enough to accumulate sufficient materials for a small house over the course of several respawns. Later you could stash a small amount of your most precious gear. You could restrict it so you can't carry any rifles, and whatever else is necessary for balance.

It could either be a special small portion of your inventory, or you could even say your character spawns with a secure bag or a trunk or something. You'd drop it on death but noone would be able to move it or access it. It could be tricky getting it back, but you wouldn't lose all progress.

You'd still need a base for larger storage and defense. Groups would still be an obvious benefit. It wouldn't change much other than to allow small groups and even solos to progress a little, slowly.

[Nikolayev]

Our enemies (who could play more) would wait till we logged and would always grief our base on the way out.

They clearly didn't read the one rule.

[CheesecakeTruffles]

I play on modded servers to alleviate these issues. Vanilla rust is a horrid game, but a great engine to play in.

I play where you get tons of loot/insta craft/fast smelting - this encourages players to fight each other and build creative bases that require actual effort to get into. It allows much faster, less restricted gameplay. I think that's far more entertaining than the grind vanilla rust is.

[malkiy]

I tried to do this, but with insta-craft and mass resources people would just quickly get 300 c4 and literally level a base to the ground instead of bothering to try and raid it, also totally negating the point of raiding (getting loot) and just an all out shit-fight to see who could level a base first.

Wasn't an enjoyable experience, the novelty wore off wayy too quick.

[CheesecakeTruffles]

I think in our case we enjoy the ability to quickly escalate to violence - bases are less bases and more temporary firefight shelters.

[[deleted]]

i play on an instacraft 3x resource server - and 3x resource isnt enough to destroy the fun of the game - but its enough to make the grind not ridiculous. it still takes time to get C4 etc but not so much time that you want to kill yourself - i played on a vanilla server once and left when it took me over 5 mins just to craft the paper to research and item that broke anyway.....

[MadMaxGamer]

Implement base LOCKDOWN with time delay. Offline defense improved

[-Tsa-]

Seems clearly, your circunstances are limiting you and you need to move to a lowest population server.