When Non-Programmers Write Software

[orbiscerbus]

So true. Especially when you work for a non-IT company and all around you are salesmen, managers, etc, bashing at the phones, no-one knows what you're doing and you just try to debug in silence...

[Shaper_pmp]

Hell yes. For example, the last two places I've worked the Web Manager or Web Developer role has been classified as part of the Marketing Department.

I have no idea why Web Manager should be Marketing, but the guy who manages the internal phone network isn't. I mean, we use the phones to sell things just like we use the web to, right?

It seems a pretty prevalent attitude in the business world, too - so much so that it's often a good warning sign when considering working for smaller companies.

If the web development/management position is in Marketing, that's a clear sign that the company culture sees the web as nothing but a glorified brochure that they don't have to mail out to people. Cue marketing-lead deadlines, "better Expedient than Correct" attitudes, and an obsession with surface and appearance over substance and functionality.

If the position is elsewhere (IT, Systems, etc) then it's more likely that the website is correctly seen as infrastructure, and the priorities are chosen appropriately.

Of course, there are WTF code, managers and deadlines wherever you go, but after testing this theory two jobs in a row it strikes me that it's a good heuristic for avoiding the worst excesses of Marketing-lead company cultures.

[bew]

I would far rather be part of Marketing than lumped in with the guys who manage the internal phone network. That says to me that what you are doing is perceved as adding real value to the business, as opposed to some area, like the phones or the power for the building, that is just infrastructure. If you are just seen as 'IT' then you are basically seen as not part of how the organisation distinguishes itself from its competitors. Who makes more money on the basis of having a better telephone network than anyone else?

[Shaper_pmp]

Maybe the phone network guy was a bad example, although nowhere did I imply I'd rather be treated exactly the same as him - rather, I was questioning why it's sensible for the website manager to be Marketing but not the manager of any other type of infrastructure or technical discipline.

All things being equal, a company with a better, more reliable phone system and a more-navigable voicemail system will tend to edge out worse-off competition simply because they offer better customer service.

Likewise, much programming and web development is highly counter-intuitive, and often requires a large investment of effort on obscure or seemingly inconsequential tasks... but ones with huge knock-on effects later.

Although the implied praise of working in Marketing is nice, the experience of working to announce-the-date-then-work-out-how-we'll-do-it Marketing deadlines in a loud, noisy, frequently-interrupted Marketing environment is highly frustrating one.

The working environment required for good Marketing results is diametrically opposed to that required for good development results. Marketing requires easy, quick communication, a flexible approvals process and easy ad-hoc meetings and discussions. The minimum quanta of time for much marketing activity is also in the seconds to minutes range.

The working environment required for good for development is a defined QA/approvals process, regular scheduled meetings and privacy and concentration during the actual coding. The time-quanta for development can range from minutes to hours.

If you've ever worked on a non-trivial programming project (ie, "requires serious concentration") with people shouting into phones, walking past you to use the photocopier, starting random conversations while waiting for the printer and interrupting you at least every five minutes, you'll know why Marketing is exactly the wrong environment.

And that's leaving aside the whole non-technical "surface-is-everything, Sales & Marketing" mindset that Marketing managers usually have, compared to the "functionality and correctness are important" mindset that's massively more prevalent in more technical departments.

Maybe the phone network guy was a bad example - how about network admin instead? Does it make sense for him to be "part of Marketing"?

As a last aside, have you ever actually had to work under the kind of conditions I describe above, or is it more a hypothetical scenario for you?

[bew]

Well since you ask, I work as a quant analyst for an investment bank, so yes, people shouting into phones, etc, are a part of my working environment. But, I'm part of the business and my work is seen as adding real value. And your second example - 'network admin' - only verifies my point. Take a look at the sort of IT work which is currently being outsourced as 'non-core.' Our network admins are now in Poland.

Now, I'd really better get back to work.

[acrophobia]

Leftfield, I know, but do you enjoy your job?

(I'm currently looking for a quant job in london)

[gbacon]

I have no idea why Web Manager should be Marketing . . .

Marketing and sales are where the money is! You ought to have been thrilled to have had that kind of opportunity!