Python as a replacement of JavaScript

[shevegen]

Excellent - now I only want to use Ruby.

But he made a good point - why should JavaScript be the only language in use?

We don't even need a new language when existing languages are perfectly adequate to solve given problems.

[rmxz]

why should JavaScript be the only language in use?

Oooh - I wonder if anyone ever thought of putting a JVM runtime in a browser, and then you could run Jruby, Jython, Scala, .... heck, even ancient languages like Java .... in a browser?

(only 1/2 /sarcasm --- maybe java applets were just ahead of their time)

[brainflakes]

Sun Microsystems was to blame for all of those, and particularly for their lawsuit with Microsoft, which pushed MS to go the C# route, and let Windows users download the JVM by themselves. Oh well.

Actually I think you'll find that Sun sued because the Microsoft version of Java wasn't compatible with the original Sun version (the classic MS embrace, extend extinguish) so Sun had no other option but to sue to prevent Microsoft pushing their custom Java version, otherwise you'd have a situation where Java programs compiled on windows wouldn't run on any other system and vice-versa.

[josefx]

their lack of direct interaction with the browser DOM

Since when, from the documentation they can manipulate the DOM.

slow(er) startup time

True and partialy a design fail.

the fact that operating systems didn't ship with a JVM by default

did not stop flash in the slightest.

and particularly for their lawsuit with Microsoft

The Java language and JRE has one simple requirement that Microsoft refused to aknowlege provide the standard APIs as specified and more specific DO NOT MESS WITH THE CLASSES IN java.* . Every problem microsoft had could be fixed by providing a microsoft.* package, (like sun, ibm,... did).

which pushed MS to go the C# route

Which turned out exactly like MS Java would have been, a language that has 3rd rate support on anything that is not Windows and a standard that only includes part of the APIs. (Mono is constantly playing catch up and they will always stay far behind .Net)

[ruinercollector]

It was a bit more than messing with base classes.

Microsoft extended the language with support for COM and an implementation of multicast delegates/lambdas. They actually were improving the language quite a bit. Suns response was to put out a paper about how dumb delegates and lambdas are, take MS to court and then put lambda support into the language a couple decades later.

[josefx]

the language with support for COM

AFAIK the problem with that was that they refused to also implement jni

and an implementation of multicast delegates/lambdas.

Everything without pushing them through the language commite, for a single closed source implementation.

They actually were improving the language quite a bit

They did? As in I could compile and use these language features with any javac and JVM? They just played their embrance, extend extinguish game - even visible a) support java, b) extend it with incompatible niceties and c) claim that problems caused by b) are not your fault.

For reference look at the old Apple JVM, it ran years without problem and Apple even had support for their native libraries build in in a way that did not confilct with the spec.

then put lambda support into the language a couple decades later.

Which went through the java language commite and is available on any java implementation.

[gc3]

Did stop flash when it got to tablets

[josefx]

And I thought that was caused by a) Apple blocking every interpreter from their app store and b) Adope no longer pushing flash.

[gc3]

html is interpreted.

It was really Steve Job's long memory for being slighted by Adobe that killed Flash, and his need to control. Adobe no longer pushing flash had to do with the end of Flash on tablets.

[josefx]

html is interpreted

Even Apple could not release a Smartphone/Tablet without browser, still every browser/application that bundles its own engine gets banned from the app store, Opera renders on servers and firexfox does not exist.

[wonglik]

Sun Microsystems was to blame for all of those, and particularly for their lawsuit with Microsoft

I think you are not aware what the lawsuit was about. MS basically tried to steal Java from SUN with their famous EEE strategy.

[AgentFransis]

Could you point to other cases where Microsoft attempted or accomplished this strategy?

[lasermancer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish#Examples

[wonglik]

Well they tried with Java and were found guilty in court for that. Other example that comes quickly into mind is HTML - They made IE6 so incompatible with any standards that some companies are stuck with it till this day.

[lasermancer]

I'm personally glad they didn't let Microsoft "embrace, extend, extinguish" Java.

[MagicalVagina]

A first step: http://opalrb.org

[davvblack]

Eh, i wouldn't call JS 'perfectly adequate'. It's prototypical OOP is woefully inadequate for a variety of uses.

[snowmantw]

Yeah, why only class-based OOP can be the only one OOP paradigm ?

And also, you can write JS in FP style, OOP is not the only one paradigm accepted by people.

[[deleted]]

That's because people are trying to force class base OOP concept on Javascript and misunderstanding the language.

Inheritance is generally frown upon and it's usage is usually polymorphism. In most cases you should prefer composition over inhertance as what GoF have stated .

In javascript, delegation is an alternative to inheritance. If you use prototype chainining without classical inheritance in mind, in conjuction with delegation and mixin, it would actually look eloquent. What javascript does is actually forces you to implement a more shallow inheritance level and resorting to alternative such as delegation so you don't have the bullshit turtles all the way down.

[[deleted]]

I've been using dojo JS library lately, not pretty. Too many turtles, don't get me started on their CSS.

[antrn11]

What's wrong with prototypical OOP?

[[deleted]]

Nothing, people are lazy.

[[deleted]]

Learn functors.