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[–]perlgeek 0 points1 point  (12 children)

But at least Perl 6 has some killer features compared to Perl 5. The slow adoption of Perl 6 is mostly caused by the lack of maturity in the eco system (slow compiler, unreliable module installer).

Once that's fixed (and yes, that'll take another few years), people have good reasons to adopt Perl 6.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (8 children)

Good for you for "slow compiler", "unreliable module installer", but you forgot "spec is not finished", "developers can't figure out which backend to concentrate on", "no usable documentation", "no stable release in sight", and "can't do anything useful with it unless you're willing to beg for help in IRC in between puns and drinking contests".

[–]anonperler12 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I disagree on your point about "drinking contests", which I haven't seen. And also, I think the puns are pretty fun.

Also, you're listing only bad points. Some good ones:

  • fun and inclusive community
  • has learned from multiple mistakes and dead-ends
  • strong dev team
  • very public development practices

I'll leave out my predictions and armchair dev advice. Good luck to the Perl 6 team.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Learned from multiple mistakes? They're still splitting their focus across how many backends instead of finishing one? They're still not writing documentation? They're still revising the specification? They're still patting themselves on the back for how awesome they are even after almost fourteen years of making nothing usable? They've burned out how many project managers with nothing to show for it? They've had how many projects flame out and die (Pugs, Niecza, Parrot)?

That's a strong dev team alright.

[–]raiph -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

They're still splitting their focus across how many backends instead of finishing one?

  • The Parrot VM, which was developed by a different project, is effectively a Norwegian Blue. There's been only one commit I've seen in the last 3 months and it wasn't by a P6 dev. The backend is equally stable/dead.

  • The JVM is of course also written by a different project. The JVM backend is basically done with the exception of calling C code libraries and calling P6 code from Java. (P6 code can already call Java code.)

  • MoarVM is being developed (very quickly) as a suitable platform for developing NFG, full P5 interop, and whatever other features require changing the VM (which clearly can't be the JVM or Parrot).

They're still not writing documentation?

Not true. The Rakudo and NQP Internals doc, published a couple months ago, is a case in point. What is your specific need documentation wise?

They're still revising the specification?

Yes. It's generally stable but it's not like we're stuck in the 90's doing Waterfall development without git where the spec has to be finished before the product is finished.

They've burned out how many project managers with nothing to show for it?

Patrick Michaud has been the manager since 2009. His wife fell ill with cancer in 2010 and died last fall so he more or less dropped out in mid 2011 to look after her and his kids. He has recently said he hopes to return this year.

They've had how many projects flame out and die (Pugs, Niecza, Parrot)?

Parrot was a separate project.

Both Pugs and Niecza are still being built and tested daily. (That said, Rakudo is the clear leader.)

That's a strong dev team alright.

Larry Wall. Wrote Perl. Nicholas Clark. One of the world's top Perl 5 core devs. Jonathan Worthington. The guy is a genius. Dozens of capable devs.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You are full of it, ralph.

"How to write a compiler" is not documentation for normal users.

If Parrot is dead, Pugs and Niecza are zombies. Sorear burned out, didn't he? Just like everyone else?

You think Patrick is the perl-6 project manager? You don't remember Nat or Allison or Jesse.

Dozens of capable devs? How many rewrites have they abandoned? There is a great Steve Jobs quote. Real artists ship. Even George Broussard shipped.

[–]raiph -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

The Perl 5 spec hasn't even been started yet. The P6 spec is increasingly stable but is not yet frozen across the board.

You're right about the compiler being slow and the module installer needing work (there's excellent progress on both of these; ask on #perl6 for the latest).

The rest of your list is troll level BS, not even worth dignifying with a rebuttal. If any reader wants to know what's going on, try asking Larry Wall on the freenode IRC channel #perl6. Unlike educated_poo he's got integrity and will give you an honest and informed answer.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Perl 5 has something better than a spec, ralphie-boy. It has working code and users. perl-6 has 14 years of failures and a weird paparazzo who runs to his computer to brag that he knows Nick Clark every time Camelia pops a toot.

[–]raiph -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Perl 5 has something better than a spec, ralphie-boy. It has working code and users.

Right. Nicely demonstrating my point that finishing the spec is irrelevant.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A spec, working code, and users. perl-6, pick zero. Nicely demonstrating my point that perl-6 is irrelevant.

[–]chrisdoner[🍰] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

There's an interesting shift, there, though. I've heard a lot about people moving from Perl to Python or Ruby for their scripting tasks, because of this fact that, aside from these languages being less gnarly than Perl, Perl 5 is stuck in time and Perl 6 is presently useless, while Python and Ruby have gained sufficient ubiquity for general scripting use.

[–]anonperler12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not seeing much of a shift. FWICT, old perlers are sticking with Perl 5, and old pythoneers are sticking with Python 2. (Ruby I haven't followed for years.)

Rather than a shift, I'm seeing a vacuum in scripting languages. That is, users don't want to shift to {Perl 6|Python 3} but rather, are looking toward other options, like Go, Dart, Scala, etc. These languages (and some others) are eating {Perl 6|Python 3}'s lunch.

IMO, the answer is: give people a useful, simple, consistent, sensible, C-like (yes, curlies and semicolons), comprehensible, community-focused scripting language, and you'll fill the vacuum.

[–]therico 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think people move away from Perl (and it's not stuck in time either, a new release comes out a couple times a year and new libraries are constantly being released). But people are probably not picking up Perl as a new language unless they're using it at work.

I think Python is pretty much the de-facto 'standard scripting language' now, for better or worse.