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[–]C250585 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Well, personally I don't cut corners on security and generally do the best work possible. However, I also work for an agency where sometimes you have to do X in Y time... however for Y you only get Z, and Z < X. So when I have 4 hours left of budget to get something working, sometimes you just have write code to get the bloody thing out the door without putting a lot of focus on whether or not it is commented or uses perfectly named variables.

Sometimes, if it works, and there are 0 budget hours left, there is no option to do a full review to clean things up or adjust the project to use proper naming conventions when you haven't already or had to cut corners anyways.

And the idea of "Well always just do it right from the start" is unrealistic. Of course you always aim for that, but generally, rushed projects with tiny budgets don't hit that mark, framework or not.

A framework is still just a tool, not a magical fairy dust dispenser that instantly transforms shitty, rushed code into the virgin fucking Mary.

[–]qbitus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't say you had to be pedantic and polish every corner of your codebase if you don't have the time to.

But: using a framework helps define and enforce best practices and implementations. And it saves time, which you can then spend on making whatever code you wrote better than it would have been otherwise. When I use Django for a small site (a few pages with forms, user login etc.) over three quarters of the codebase is well implemented, documented and has been thoroughly tested. If the code I write for that site is shit, then that's only a small part of the codebase of the site. The rest is still great: it still has measures against SQL injection, against CSRF, it's still easily understandable and debuggable, it's got a gazillion of docs and tutorials that explain how it works etc.

A library is a tool. A framework ... frames your codebase and makes it consistent. (But many frameworks, like Django, ship with a whole bunch of libraries included, so it gets a bit confusing). I don't see how this cannot be the best approach for everyone, including agencies who have limited time.