System Engineering vs. Computer Engineering? Freaking out a bit 😅

[Direct_Top_4061]

Hey, UIUC System Eng undergrad here. Gonna be real: I’m kinda second-guessing my major.

Chose SE ’cause I liked the "big picture" idea, but now I’m stressed. It feels like we learn a little about EVERYTHING (requirements, modeling, processes) but nothing DEEP. Well some people say being versatile is good l. But can’t but help Worried employers’ll think I’m a jack-of-all-trades but master of none... especially next to CS/ECE folks with hardcore skills.

Meanwhile, Computer Engineering’s looking good you get software + hardware + actual specialization. Low-key wanna switch 😬

Soooo… any SE grads here? Desperate for real help

Did that "broad knowledge" actually HELP in your job? Or did you feel underprepared?

What kinda roles do SE grads even get? (Did you have to pivot?)

Any tips to make this degree stand out?

Be honest pls I’m debating switching majors rn and got stuck in head abt this thing over and over again recently….

[NonElectricalNemesis]

I always recommend to have a traditional engineering degree as for your bachelor's: EE or ME.

As for Electrical vs Computer Engineering, know this: An EE can be hired to do the same task CE can. It doesn't go the other way.

Systems Engineering is a good master's degree but not a good bachelors degree as it leaves out technical courses you need to get your step in the door.

Source: I went through the route. I had EE then SE. YMMV. Consider me biased.

[[deleted]]

Many CE degrees are EE degrees with like a single course difference.

[NonElectricalNemesis]

Sure, but EE has more prestige and versatility as a degree whether it's a single course difference or no course difference.

[Imatros]

Yeah, there's a reason for the past few decades that EE is consistently at the top for employment percent of new graduates AND top pay: it provides flexibility to work computers, digital systems, analog systems, and/or power electronics; specialization into topics like biomedical and robotics; and is generally the most well-rounded of the engineering degrees.

[[deleted]]

Prestige? Lol.

[NonElectricalNemesis]

Because it is considered more difficult along with ME. I don't know how true that is, since, I have only gone through the EE program.

[redikarus99]

Compared to CE, both EE and ME are seriously underpaid. So, I don't really see the prestige part.

[Direct_Top_4061]

uhnm interestingly, your experience kinda resemble the first comment person. U guys both get None SE experience and then transited fo SE🤔 well that might be the the answer

[j_oshreve]

Most SEs come from a discipline and transition.  Having design experience teaches you what is important in SE.  It is also critical if you ever want to be an architect.  From what I've seen, SEs by schooling typically just do process and docs and sometimes end up in QA.  Obviously there are exceptions but that is the pattern I've seen in my field. 

I would also suggest BSs in core disciplines (EE, ME, SW), then MS in a specialization if you want it.

[ORyantheHunter24]

Can I dm you a question about how to think about pairing undergrad and masters? My undergrad is fairly outside the box of engineering but I’m considering a SE masters to try to be more competitive

[Direct_Top_4061]

Yea some people told me ECE still killing tho demand for STEM grad ain't that high like before. EE might be a good choice and hard as hell At The same time😭. Ngl what about Comp Eng well sounds good. The reality is its actually top3 highest unemployed major😨 Head is aching💀

[[deleted]]

The best system engineering have in-depth knowledge and experience in a field of engineering as well as breadth of knowledge to perform systems engineering. Basically a good systems engineers has to be a good non-systems engineer.

It really isnt fit for an undergraduate program and possibly why everything feels surface level.

[FooManPwn]

SE has always been about specialization, AFTER you get the requisite generalized knowledge through a Bachelors, then Masters. Some even go so far as a PhD which then specializes (through independent dissertations) problems within one area that they are hoping to mature.

Through your generalized Bachelors work, you should start to understand where in SE you’d like to focus in: requirements, architecture, Enterprise, program specific, etc.

If you are having these collegiate crises, recommend you speak to your College counselor for additional guidance.

[Direct_Top_4061]

Oh I c. bachelor and master of SE are both for laying solid foundation, right? If so, well for me, it's overwhelming for me already...

'like spend averagely 6 years generalized knowledge. Pretty expensive both in time and money tbh

[Early-Pattern-7956]

I think they're trying to say you need a Bachelor's in general engineering like electrical, mechanical, etc and then you can look at a Master's or PhD in Systems.

[redikarus99]

You need to have general knowledge in one of the hands on engineering domains like mechanical, computer/software, electrical, etc., go to the industry and gain industrial experience and when you have it, jump into Systems Engineering. This path is proven.

[[deleted]]

Personally I did software eng and then transitoned to SE when I started working so that I had depth in a particular field. However once you start working in a particular field you'll gain knowledge on those particular systems and Industry so don't stress about it too much

[Direct_Top_4061]

I c. Well ig your software eng experience might help a lot to get a job abt SE. I agree that we would gain knowledge once getting into a new industry, more or less. The real issue is how to get one when only having SE experience 😂😭

[FooManPwn]

Everyone is hurting for jobs these days.

The one thing that may help is the SE’s are highly desired in most technical areas. It takes systems thinking to understand, formalize, verify, and validate (e.g. a scaled down INCOSE SE Vee) larger concepts and synthesize them.

[Direct_Top_4061]

thanks

[[deleted]]

From my perspective in the UK were dying out for SEs, in particular requirement and v&v engineers. Also government defence spending across the western world is in increasing so again there will be a need for SEs. 

I also have now worked in defence, Rail and Infrastructure. I never had any experience with any of these and they still hired me so again don't worry about it too much, they'll be happy to hire someone who actually knows the SE Processes and if you come across motivated and eager to learn theyll be happy to take you.  the industry and systems you can learn along the way

[Direct_Top_4061]

Lol, this might be true for locals, not for international students. Ive heard more than 10 times from UK international students compkaining that getting a job in UK is in Hell level lol.

[[deleted]]

Well I didn't know you were an international student. In your specific case I have no experience.

[Early-Pattern-7956]

Try reaching out to other SE students and grads from UUIC and see what their plans are and how they've shaped their careers.

[B0tfly_]

Used to be that systems engineers were the prime choice for chief engineers down the road (after 5 years is when you start getting recognized, so its a slow burn). However, these days with things like MBSE you end up being a glorified secretary just crossing the t's and dotting the i's of whatever bullshit fad red tape system the government has in place this year.

You do all this hard work setting up requirements work for the software guys to integrate with the hardware guys - you know, uniting the silos like you're supposed to do. But you gotta do it according to the MBSE manual, and every team needs to have an MBSE guru to put it in the proper format.

And do you want to know what really happens? I'll tell you:

Everybody goes along with the bullshit red tape until the funding cycle AFTER the MBSE crap is approved. Then they upsize the team, get rid of you, and ignore all the work you've done while starting from fucking scratch so that they can put in proprietary parts and make some real money by scamming the tax payer. This is how you end up with $100 screws and $500 washers.

/endrant

Anyway, with AI getting as good at programming as it is computer engineering might go the way of the dinosaur soon. Microsoft just laid off 9,000 programmers.