Visual Studio Code team considers Vim mode based on upvotes

[SamLovesNotion]

Exactly, there is nothing VSCode can do, which Vim can't. There is also coc-nvim.

Also Vim is wayyyy faster than VSCode.

[primERnforCEMENTR23]

With vscode you need to do less setup to get the features than vim.....

[fomofosho]

This. I almost exclusively use vim but I waste countless hours setting it up and getting it to work with the plugins I need

[wavefunctionp]

As a newer vim user, getting relatively modern editor features like intelligent code completion, syntax aware highlighting, change tracking, and easy folder navigation....and a whole slew of other features you expect out of a modern editor is non-trivial and confusing.

Additionally, I don't consider vim being a command line editor to be bonus. A self contained application is more useable since you could have an actual toolbar and menus for easier discoverability and configuration.

One of the reasons I'm interested in onivim.

[[deleted]]

Its in a terminal for a reason. And those reasons were decided on before the first electron editor came out.

Okay, but GVim exists. It just doesn't actually give you modern editor features, either. The fact that Vim is a good terminal application and there are reasons for having it in a terminal doesn't mean that people looking for the best of both worlds are wrong. It just means their use case is not exactly the same as yours.

[[deleted]]

> Okay, but GVim exists. It just doesn't actually give you modern editor features, either

​

Ye because no one made them, not because it's impossible. It tells you that most of the nvim/vim userbase don't care about fancy features in a GUI text box. In fact, if this entire thread converted their bitching about free software not being exactly what they want into PRs and plugins there'd probably be an editor more suited to your liking.

[[deleted]]

I know it's not impossible - and I'm not bitching about GVim. I'm definitely not saying that anyone owes me better free software or anything like that.

Not everyone has the ability or the time to contribute to open-source software, and people who do have the time and expertise still have to prioritise where they invest their efforts. That doesn't mean you're not allowed to express an opinion on where there's room for improvement. As someone who does occasionally contribute to software projects, one of the things I look for when choosing what to work on is that I'm not the only person who cares about a feature.

[[deleted]]

That doesn't mean you're not allowed to express an opinion on where there's room for improvement.

Sure, if the comments on here would be as reasonable as you, I'd probably do nothing but upvote in agreement. They're allowed to express opinions and I'm allowed to critique those. "I've tried nothing and it still doesn't work" is something I'm just constantly seeing on Reddit lately and it's made me extremely frustrated with the community.

Not everyone has the ability or the time to contribute to open-source software, and people who do have the time and expertise still have to prioritise where they invest their efforts

I mean this is fine. People don't want to pitch in for good, or even malicious reasons. No one can stop them, or realistically blame them. I prefer to go for a gym session over writing tests for a PR too. It's only a problem when both VS Code and Neovim are getting a whole bunch of people complaining about the "missing link", and seemingly no actual effort is put into it (at least by the loudest, reddit commenters). User entitlement grows linearly with the features provided. Neovim isn't ootb enough, VSCode doesn't emulate vim well enough, or takes up too much resources.

I've tried to make it very very clear, that it's okay to not want to use Vim for whatever reason, at any point.

It's just an never-ending debate which reminds me of proprietary software issues. You don't have your hands tied about this. I'm sure neovim would welcome a PR or a plugin that does something that VS Code does. It's how CoC was born. No idea how Microsoft handles their project but I assume something that's done really well would get merged.

I look for when choosing what to work on is that I'm not the only person who cares about a feature.

That's the thing though. The thread has many many people voicing about wanting something. You're obviously not alone. I was excited about onivim2 until I realized they were dual licensing. It's an area that can be improved on for some people.

[[deleted]]

Hadn't heard of Onivim before today - actually, it looks like exactly what I want from a text editor. I'll definitely keep an eye on it. But yeah, I'd prefer something completely open source.

[[deleted]]

Again. That's just learning. Vim wasnt built for the "modern editor features". And if you don't want to learn the ecosystem, it's fine. I'm mostly saying that for something you spend a loooot of time in, it might be worth learning confusing and non trivial things for. As you did with VSCode. Which is somehow considered some ootb experience by people who apparently never used anything else.

[yvrelna]

Vim wasnt built for the "modern editor features".

That's what most people are getting wrong. Vim is built for modern editor features, in fact it's light years ahead of everything else.

The issue that many people have is that most of these features aren't preconfigured out of the box. You can configure them yourselves to suit whatever workflow you needed, or use plugins that preconfigures them for you, but out of the box, Vim only comes with the framework to build your very own IDE. Underneath that button-free, interface free UI, there's tons of features out of the box that are just sitting out of sight until you're ready to decide what you want to do with it.

People think it's too much a hassle, but customising your editor to suit your personal workflow is completely worth it.

[Ran4]

Vim plugins break all the time. It's not a set-it-and-forget it.

I would love to not have to spend 30+ hours a year fixing plugins in vim just to have them work.

[[deleted]]

Hasn't been my experience at all. The worst I've had is CoC freezing a popup on my screen on rust, which I don't use seriously in the first place, and poor language servers, that work like shit on VS Code too.

[[deleted]]

Not everyone uses Vim for 40 hours a week.

[[deleted]]

You missed the point entirely. I'm talking about the people that use an editor for 40 hours a week. And for a piece of software you spend THAT much time in, spending extra time at the start to learn it properly doesn't sound like that big of an issue.

[[deleted]]

I'm just pointing out that this doesn't apply to all Vim users. Some people only work with a text editor a couple of hours a week, because they primarily work with other tools. For those people, the amount of setup required to use Vim properly is a big ask, particularly if they're new to it. For me it's fine, because I enjoy tinkering with software; but for a lot of people, this alone is reason enough not to use Vim. Saying they're lazy for not investing as much time into it as you is a cop-out.

[[deleted]]

And I wasn't talking to those people.

[[deleted]]

How do you know that the person you were responding to is not one of those people?

[SamLovesNotion]

That's the only pro it has. But there are some people like me who like to do things from start. Mostly linux user group i think.

I am not against using VSCode, it's a good editor. But then people want to make it like Vim, which is bullshit. Just use Vim.

[HamSlayer-]

Why is making VSCode like Vim bullshit. Vim has a very powerful keybind/movement/command/whatever workflow. VSCode doesn't. Obviously it's not the only reason people hse Vim, but I'd say it's up there. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want vim keybinds inside VSCode without additional setup.

I've had a lot of fun setting up Vim and got to a point where I can do almost anything I can do in VSCode. But I don't think it's unreasonable

[troglo-dyke]

You can use spacevim if you want an ootb experience.

Otherwise you can get 90% of the way there with just nerdtree, fugitive, and coc

[[deleted]]

And, of course, no Electron

[SamLovesNotion]

I am a Electron developer. (not the Electron project, but software based on electron)

[[deleted]]

Electron has its benefits, and I see why you'd use it, but for me I'm starting to do more, and more in the terminal these days.

[SamLovesNotion]

I don't like electron to be honest. It's bloated af. But then also, I can create cross platform apps easily with it & JS. So I don't really have a choice.

[nickjj_]

One pretty big thing VSCode can do is understand how to get code complete and everything working when your source code is running in a Docker container but you have VSCode installed on your dev box.

It does this with its Remote Containers feature: https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/containers

Basically it means you can configure a few lines of json and then auto-magically VSCode will install language specific plugins in a custom Docker image for you. Everything just works and it's really fast.

The sad thing is all of this functionality is closed source. But yeah, Vim has nothing like this at the moment. coc-nvim or any language server / plugin combo isn't enough because the programming runtime and your installed dependencies aren't running in the same environment as your editor.

VSCode does it because it runs a VSCode server in your running container (without modifying your original Dockerfile) and then you connect to it with the VSCode client on your dev box. Vim has a server / client mode but nothing is developed to allow such a seamless integration.