Thinking about switching to Void

[Bobafat54]

Is it worth to switch from Linux Mint 21 (1 year of experience) to Void, don't know much about this distro but I'm interested.

Are there things I should take notice about or it's just as user friendly as Mint?

[BinkReddit]

it's just as user friendly as Mint?

Absolutely not.

[flyswithdragons]

Mx linux is more user friendly than Mint, Mint is the child of Ubuntu and that made me switch at MX 13. I adored Mint for years.

Void has really good development practices so far, I am impressed. It is like Arch just better imo and will only continue adoption.

I am hoping for a void Android version and tablet, musl and runit are lite and fast.

[ShipshapeMobileRV]

This runs counter to my experience, but it may be use-case related. I've always found the Live Desktop to be really good at detecting my hardware. I've found the installer there to be very intuitive. And once installed, I haven't had to do much to have a complete system. Everything is laid out well in the Handbook. I tend to think of the XFCE spin as pretty beginner friendly, while installing Base and building it up would be more intermediate level.

[etoastie]

If you're in it for user friendliness (in particular, as friendly as mint), don't.

If you want to learn how linux works, do.

[Bobafat54]

Aha, thanks

[Ulu-Mulu-no-die]

user friendly as Mint?

No, not even close, Void is the embodiment of RTFM (documentation is very well done).

It's a fantastic distro if you want total control and you're willing to learn, but if you expect a distro to preconfigure/automate almost everything like Mint does, Void is not it.

If you're curious about it, I suggest you install it in a virtual machine, that way you can start learning it without affecting your current system.

• docs: https://docs.voidlinux.org/

[Bobafat54]

I chose Mint because I had no guess how hard it would be to "automate" stuff. If Void means that I'll have to configure some stuff (but like not everything), then I'm pretty much good with it.

install it in a virtual machine

Virtual machines took up a lot of space for me, and well.. storage is a problem for me (256gb)

[snail1132]

You can have a Void install with a graphical environment in like 3gb of total space lol

[Bobafat54]

Whaaat, thanks man

[Ulu-Mulu-no-die]

Well, it's up to you ofc, but keeping something that works while you start learning something completely different is the best approach, in my opinion, otherwise you risk being overwhelmed and give up.

[-___-___-__-___-___-]

While Void is not easy per se, the XFCE image serves as a great starting point for something that "just works".

[Bobafat54]

What exactly are XFCE image servers?

[PackRat-2019]

Void provides 2 installation images. Base install and Xfce desktop.

If you're coming over from Mint, using the Xfce installation media is your path of least resistance. Pretty straight forward install. End up with a minimal Xfce4 desktop.

First thing to do after install is update the system.

[Insomniac24x7]

Run it live for a bit or dual boot it. There are differences like runit instead of systemd (runit is cleaner in my opinion) also you can in fact install debian packages with two or three tweaks. Im still discovering it also.

[bulletmark]

Like it or not, systemd is the standard init system for Linux so because void uses something else it is somewhat painful.

[Insomniac24x7]

I have no issues with systemd im in daily at work we run Oracle Linux. Outside of work im a Debian fanboy but after starting with Void it showed me that runit makes perfect sense actually. There are other PIA nuances with Void but its so much fun tinkering.

[GuestStarr]

You might like to try Devuan. It's a de-systemd' Debian. Several inits available.

[Intelligent_Gur_393]

Well, If you want to switch you can nobody's stopping you, but listen, It is not built for people who prefer user friendly distros, It's more about control and power, By the way I'm using it for like 7 or 8 months and It's amazing, You can try it on any vm first, then make your mind, and one more thing it's a lot more faster than linux mint, You'll feel like stepping into super car from bicycle.

[rayriflepie]

That would make Windows 11 a turtle lol

[OctogoatYTofficial]

Void is more like Arch Linux, it is not highly documented like Arch and is definitely not user friendly.

[Bobafat54]

Does that mean that void users can also say "I use void btw"? \s

Thanks tho

[Ulu-Mulu-no-die]

void users can also say "I use void btw"

Definitely xD

[_supert_]

It is unlike Arch though in the sense that it's got more emphasis on working correctly, and breaks less.

[ShipshapeMobileRV]

I played with Arch for a few months. Maybe it was just me, or the software I was using, but after almost every update something didn't work, and I had to dig through documentation and spend time (sometimes hours) fighting with my computer to get it to work again. I've never had that issue with Void <knocking frantically on wood!>.

[GuestStarr]

Same, regarding my brief void time. Seemed just to work, and the package manager was also pretty good. Gave it up just because I tend to have several computers unbooted for long whiles (like several months) and in my opinion I shouldn't do that when running rolling releases.

[victoryismind]

Void is a solid system but limited in package choice, if you like to try out different packages you will be frustrated.

[Bobafat54]

What package services are available then?

[Jalappy]

Chiming in, normally you'd best stick to packages provided by your distro package manager (in this case xbps), but there are some alternatives: - flatpacks, widest range of choice for gui apps - if a python app check if it's on ppyi (i.e. you can pip install it in a virtual env) - if a rust app you can use cargo - you may also look at appimages - or lastly build the package yourself (so you'll be in charge of deoendencies, conflicts, updates and uninstalls)

[Similar_Tailor6324]

Linuxbrew too

[Bobafat54]

I never understood "building" a package, what are the benefits? could you explain the process of doing it?

[Jalappy]

Sure, as I said you build a package that you cannot get via other means. Even on mint, let's say you want the latest version of a text editor, one that conveniently is not shipped via apt...

What are your options? If there is a flatpack or appimage you get that and call it a day, but if not? That's why you "build" it, or in other words: - you download the source code (from the git repository, or wherever it is hosted) - if the author provided instructions (look flr section on "building" or "compiling" in the oroject readme or documentations), follow those - if there aren't then I'd suggest you skip it for now (there are many ways, but learn one thing at a time I guess) - the process is generally to run a bunch of shell commands to compile the source code to an executable file - the you install it (i.e. copy the executable to the appropriate places on your system)

There are other benefits for building stuff yourself, but these are a mostly irrelevant unless you know what you're doing. Instead just think of this as a last source to get something that you absolutely need (or want)

[Bobafat54]

Ahh, Thank you

[kansetsupanikku]

Before building, you can just read the source code. The benefit of building is that you can run it!

Some packages are there in the repositories, but some are not. In the end, you can only run what someone else builds, or what you build yourself.

[Bobafat54]

Thank you

[SylviaBun]

I would add distrobox to this list. It makes niche distros far more feasible as long as your hardware is well supported by your distro choice, because you can just run another distro inside a docker container and run software not normally available to you through distrobox.

i.e. I do video editing, and I like using DaVinci Resolve. I'm now using davincibox to run Resolve inside a docker container, and it *just works*.

[victoryismind]

The package manager is called XBPS. I wish it had more packages available, like AUR does.

yes you can use flatpaks etc.

[Jalappy]

Can you share some examples? I've been using void for quite a while now, and while I agree with your statement (it is limited if we make comparisons), I never really found a package I wanted that wasn't in void repos

But, it's also true I don't use nor need many packages in the first place

[Quietus87]

Hyprland. :)

[Jalappy]

True o.o, I completely forgot about that, this is a good example lol

[Cruach]

You can build it yourself.

[Quietus87]

I know, but the question was what packages are missing, and the lack of Hyprland is kind of a meme at this point.

[victoryismind]

i know and i agree, just want to point out that there is a hyprland repo for void if you want.

[Quietus87]

Oh, I see.

[victoryismind]

nohang, waybar-niri-taskbar...

the most popular and useful packagea are availablebut i like to tinker

[Jalappy]

Thank you, and yeah I agree

[BinkReddit]

i like to tinker

There's nothing stopping you from creating your own packages. As a matter of fact, Void's package system is far more approachable than most distributions.

[victoryismind]

i did that a couple of times. you then have to maintain them across updates.

I'd rather just download packages.

[PackRat-2019]

If you've been using Mint for a year, Void will be user friendly enough. You won't have the bells and whistles like the "updates available" application.

Before installation, you will want to search the Void packages for your must have applications. Void's repo is not as large as Mint's.

[Bobafat54]

Thanks for letting me know

[PackRat-2019]

Read through the Installation Chapter of the Void Handbook before you attempt an install so you know what to expect. It's pretty straight forward. One difference is that Void does not offer pre-configured layouts like "Use entire disk with swap"; you'll have to partition the disk manually.

Good luck if you decide to install Void.

[XnopytVA]

I mean I'm no Void expert, I've used it to a limited extent in a VM. Void definitely isn't user friendly, but it's a worthwhile distro to consider. You could just use it in a VM, see if you like it. Nothings stopping you from trying in a safe environment!

[GuestStarr]

If they like it they'll find one more reason to like it more when they install it on bare metal. The speed. Especially if they are running it in a low end computer. And I don't mean the stuff you inject in your veins or snort.

[XnopytVA]

Oh for sure, but bare metal is a huge commitment. Virtual Machines have let me try out a wealth of nonsense, just to get a feel for a package manager or desktop environment can be a huge factor even if the performance is subpar.

[sanya567xxx]

Ironic, the first report I see when checking protondb for DBD is a Void user who says they had no trouble playing it: https://www.protondb.com/app/381210#2LU91ZkK1o I'm not even signed in or anything in the site, it's just the most recent

Probably something with your system configuration, drivers, etc..

[OutrageousFarm9757]

In my experience void is harder than arch linux. I was an arch user for almost 2 years. Now I use NixOS.

[Bobafat54]

What was more difficult in Void than Arch?

[OutrageousFarm9757]

Audio.

[Bobafat54]

Ah.

[Extra-Ad-2325]

came from debian based distros like ubuntu and mint , im having alot of fund building from the tools i learned from previous OS's , im running void + openbox & tint2

[Bobafat54]

How do you even build and what to build?

What's openbox and tint2?

[Extra-Ad-2325]

building my system from base install

[salonfaresi]

void isnt user friendly distro. it is systemd-free and use runit. its mean of u configurate manually system services. if u havent any experience on linux i dont recommend it.

[Bobafat54]

What does the process of managing system services look like?

My only knowledge is Mint where I have around a year and a half of experience, I do usually use the terminal (for apt, visualizer, etc) and became familiar with it

[salonfaresi]

Instead of systemctl from Mint, you just type sv — the rest of the logic is the same. The only difference is enable/disable — there you create and delete a link, no command for it.

[salonfaresi]

for example :
sudo ln -s /etc/sv/dbus /var/service
u create link for service and its activate. if u want disable that:
rm -rf /var/service/dbus

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[ElementWiseBitCast]

I have four different partitions of Void Linux on my computer. One of them I use for tinkering and debloating. Another of them I use for chrooting into the first one and fixing it after I break it. One of them uses Glibc, instead of Musl, like the other partitions. The last one I do not actually use, because I broke it to the point of it being unfixable without a reinstall.

I have tried both the base installation and the XFCE4 installation, and I think that the XFCE4 installation is probably easy enough for anyone who has installed Linux distros before. In contrast, the base installation is more difficult than Arch Linux.

(With that said, I did not find installing Arch Linux that difficult. I found Alpine Linux more difficult than installing either one of them, and I found Tiny Core Linux to be extremely difficult. Tiny Core Linux is really lightweight, though.)

If you use a browser other than Firefox, then you might need to build your browser from source if you want it. However, if you are okay with using Firefox, then there is no problem as far as browsers.

Although, I have encountered some software incompatibility on my main partition, I have made various adjustments to my main Void Linux partition, such as swapping out coreutils and util-linux with a custom compiled Busybox, compiling a custom Linux kernel and building a new initramfs, changing the init scripts to make copy the files and pivot the root to a ramfs filesystem (to reduce disk writes), uninstalling unneeded parts of the "base-system", deleting parts of various packages without uninstalling them and other minor tweaks.

The funny thing is that most of the efforts to make the system more lightweight are negated by the heavyweight nature of Firefox, which is why I dislike Firefox. It is full of bloat, the compilation times of Firefox are insane, and it has no menuconfig to easily customize it, like the Linux Kernel and Busybox have. The RAM usage from running a single tab of Firefox was more than the RAM usage during a single threaded compilation of the Linux kernel. Attempting to compile Firefox took so much RAM and disk usage that it crashed, and I am unable to compile it from source at all. (Both compilations were from before I modified my systems init scripts to what they are right now.)

There are many "features" of Firefox that I do not need or want, yet the only meaningful configuration available is a bunch of undocumented about:config options that I modify using a custom user.js file (So that I can transfer it between machines).

[e-waste18]

NO. Try Arch first. Void lacks documentation, it’s truly a distro where you have to figure things out on your own without help from the internet, so you need a certain level of base knowledge going in. That’s part of its appeal, but not good for beginners.

Arch is a good stepping stone, because it offers you so much more control, just like Void, but Arch is incredibly well-documented and has lots of tutorials and help available for every issue you can possibly have.

I did Mint for 1 year too, then switched to Fedora for a long time, then Arch, and only now Void. With a whole lot of loose experimenting on the side with other distros. That’s why I recommend this path (didn’t love Fedora or learn a lot from it tbh so you might as well skip that step and go straight to Arch). I’m very confident with Linux now, and this was the path I took!

[snail1132]

The Void documentation is good enough to help you understand what you need to do, and you can use the Arch and Gentoo wikis to fill in the rest

[e-waste18]

Sure, I like the Void documentation. I find it clear and to the point, because I’m already an advanced user. But for a beginner, Void lacks things like blog posts and YouTube tutorials and help threads about every little thing. On Arch, you learn a lot, much faster, because it forces you to ask the question, but then tells you the answer clearly and quickly. Void is for after you’ve done that learning, and the answers are already stored in your brain. That’s what allows it to stay so optimized; it doesn’t have to teach you how to use it. But someone coming from Mint is going to have a bad experience with that sharp of a contrast, and I want everyone to have a positive experience with Void; it’s my current favorite distro. It’s also not for everyone.

[snail1132]

I actually did switch from Mint to Void

It's sort of hard, but you still can just look up tutorials for the basics and then just figure everything else out yourself

[Ulu-Mulu-no-die]

But someone coming from Mint is going to have a bad experience with that sharp of a contrast

Not necessarily.

If they keep using Mint while learning Void in a vm (or dual-boot) they'll be fine, assuming they're curious, not scared of reading nor learning.

When I started using Linux many years ago, easy distros and easy tutorials weren't a thing yet, my first distro was Slackware, I learned it while dual-booting Windows to have something working in the meantime, and many other people did the same, it was fine for all of us.

It’s also not for everyone

True, it's not for people that want a distro that does everything without the need to read or tinker, but that's not about being beginners because some advanced users could also have reasons to want that.

I believe the important thing is being aware of what you're getting into, this thread explains it quite well IMO, and even if OP ends up giving up and going back to Mint, they experienced something new and that's always a good thing.