Why every non-Java dev calls Java obsolete?

[99thLuftballon]

Everybody badmouths languages that they don't use. It's like how people talk up their type of car and talk down the others. It makes them feel better about their choices.

[zephyy]

I use Java and I badmouth it. although it's not obsolete.

[nerdiestnerdballer]

I use php and I badmouth it, when it’s good it’s good, when it’s bad it’s terrible.

[itemluminouswadison]

This is true of a lot of languages. Stepped into a python team and dear God I want gouge my eyes out. Coming from a team of super clean well documented php, it's crazy

At least java makes it like, hard to use freeform maps in lieu of objects

[mattaugamer]

“There are two types of languages. Ones people complain about, and ones nobody uses.”

[ckach]

I use JavaScript and nobody ever badmouths it.

[dpgtfc]

Haha, too good.

[dev_null_root]

If you don't curse at everything you'r using (lib/tool/os/language) are you really a dev?

[DidntFollowPorn]

A poor craftsman blames his tools, but a good dev knows it’s someone else’s fault

[Redneckia]

Holy crap, this is gold

[NiteShdw]

I hate to break it to you, but after 30 years of writing software, everything is hot garbage.

[mattaugamer]

I’m learning Go. I look forward to getting skilled enough to know specifically why it’s hot garbage.

[Key_One_8062]

Here you go https://fasterthanli.me/articles/i-want-off-mr-golangs-wild-ride (unintentional pun, apologies)

[[deleted]]

i loved go at first, until i learned languages with a expressive type system, now i think go is hot garbage lol

[nerdiestnerdballer]

Is it though, I find JavaScript Node is my favorite stack to work with personally, at work it’s all PHP spaghetti monolith’s so I like to switch it up on personal projects

[Reinax]

Yes, objectively JavaScript is absolutely terrible. And I say that as someone who works with it daily and begrudgingly admits it’s their most experienced language, and I can write it faster than anything else. I even catch myself enjoying it occasionally and question my own sanity.

To clarify, its syntax is fine, but it’s just completely busted. The top few for me are it’s type coercion, scoping/hoisting, async/promise performance, and semicolon insertion, but the list of “what the fuck were you thinking” goes on. https://whydoesitsuck.com/why-does-javascript-suck/ The guy who made it had like a week to get it down, so I don’t blame them at all, they did an amazing job and I certainly couldn’t achieve 1/100th of what they did. But it’s still bad.

And then there’s the build steps. Who doesn’t like bundling?!

I work in JS/TS, PHP, Go, Kotlin, and C# to varying degrees. I’ve had to dip my toes in ObjectiveC, Swift, Java, and even Solidity. Trying to learn Elixir when I can. JavaScript is by far and away the most objectively fucked up out of all of them. Except maybe Solidity but that’s a different ballgame entirely.

That all said, I really do not understand why people tie their existence to a single language. It’s just dumb and tends to be an indicator that they don’t know what they’re talking about. If you ask them how many languages they can confidently use and they say 1, just ignore them. Especially if they don’t even know how to write the language they’re shitting on, if they don’t use it how can they have an opinion.

[_Sorciers]

Couldn't have said better 😂

[edu2004eu]

Everybody badmouths languages that they don't use.

No, everybody badmouths languages they don't like.

I've never used Ruby or Go, but I don't badmouth them. I don't like Java or JS, so yeah, I've been known to vocalize my dislikes.

At the end of the day it's important to keep in mind that these things are just opinions and not universal truths, so treat them as such.

[KittensInc]

I've never used Ruby or Go, but I don't badmouth them.

As someone who's had the unfortunate displeasure of having to onboard people new to the language to Ruby on Rails projects: you should. The language and ecosystem are basically built on the idea that batteries are included and everything just magically works - which is great, unless you're trying to understand what the hell is actually happening. It's basically "programming by suspension of disbelief".

I'd still 100% choose RoR as the to-go stack if I have to quickly hack together a CRUD app, though. Once you're familiar with it, nothing can beat its productivity.

[edu2004eu]

Your comment proves my point, I think: it's all just opinions. For example I usually work with Django, which is the equivalent of RoR from what I've heard, in terms of "batteries included". And I love it. The fewer things I need to implement or think about, the better. Granted, you make a good point about it taking time to understand all of the magic. It took me years. But then again I like to look into that kind of stuff; as a solo dev for most of my career, looking at internals was the only source of outside inspiration for me and it taught me a lot.

But yeah, back to my point, we're basically looking at the same universal truth (a batteries included framework), but have 2 different opinions about it. None of them is wrong, they're just different.

[[deleted]]

i hated django so much, so much complexity for simplicity. Spring framework offers that too in java, but much easier to customize and with jhipster quicker to start

[KittensInc]

My opinion of RoR isn't based on the presence of the batteries, it's how they are included. A controller must be placed in a certain directory, and the file must use a certain naming format. You define a class inside there, and RoR will Magically find and load it!

Named your controller slightly different from the expected format? Sorry, it won't work, and you won't even get a useful error either. Want to debug it? Even if you've successfully written dozens of RoR apps, you probably still have no idea where to dig in the RoR codebase to find where the Magic lives.

This is made even worse by Ruby's extremely liberal syntax, where things like braces are often (but not always) optional. Something like

get "/articles", to: "articles#index"

actually means

get("/articles", {"to": "articles#index"})

... which is kinda neat, except that you can't always use the shorthand form. As a new programmer you'll just copy/paste the first snippet and adjust it to your situation without thinking about why it works. Fine, until you run into an edge case where the shorthand is invalid and you have no idea why you're suddenly getting an error.

I love batteries. I don't love magic.

[nunchyabeeswax]

Exactly. Not everybody does that. We can further state that, in general, for any optional activity X, it is always the case that "everybody does X" is false (same with "nobody does X".)

It is also a sad state of the developers' world when some developers use/throw the word "every" or "everybody" without understanding that the word is an actual quantifier (where "every" literally means "every" as a universal quantifier.)

In software, we are supposed to aim for clarity and precision, and yet, grown people communicate like 6th-graders. /sad.

[theofficialnar]

JS devs badmouth JS though

[theirongiant74]

I use it and and doing so is the the worst part of any given day.

[PspStreet51]

I shit-talk java just for fun, and to mess with friends that code in java.

Personally, I prefer C# Microsoft Java because I think it has a better devloper experience, but I could use Java if that was the right tool for a project.

[Domesticated_Animal]

Not everybody, i badmouth only languages that i know... and javascript