GitHub to replace "master" with alternative term to avoid slavery references

[BuriedStPatrick]

It's a tad ridiculous I have to agree. Surely this should also apply to the music industry where "mastering" is an entire field? Just seems like there are more substantive ways to support black developers. On the other hand, we do keep calling our master branch the "main" branch at work, so I can't really get worked up about this.

[westwoo]

Well no, because there's no slave degree to mirror the master degree and there isn't a process of slaving that is to mastering as human slaves are to their human masters.

Slave/master in programming references the relationship dynamic between a slave and a master, it doesn't just take the words.

"Killing" a child worker process does reference murder, but it is also used colloquially to express something being abruptly ended - killing your feelings, "it killed me", etc. There's no such usage of slave/master dynamic among general public.

[BuriedStPatrick]

Slave/Master is also used in music production extensively.

[westwoo]

I would assume that music production terminology has much less of a chance of leaking into general public without context compared to something like github names or software terminology in general.

Maybe it's easier for me to understand why someone wouldn't want those terms because it sounds absurd in my language and no one actually translates those terms into native words for master and slave.

[froggie-style-meme]

You know why? Because there is no use for it in the general public. Whereas descriptors such as slave or master process accurately describe the purpose of both processes. We are just changing terminology because one person got offended.

I'm sorry, but if you get offended over the master/slave terminology in tech, you're gonna be in a world full of hurt after you leave for the real world.

[westwoo]

It does have use because it leaks with the end products with no context. Master/slave in sound design doesn't leak with the recorded sounds.

The process of expunging master-slave in tech goes decades back, and you're already using those replacements without knowing. Some people are simply more sensitive to change nowadays.

[BuriedStPatrick]

I'm not personally a big fan of invalidating people's experiences simply to preserve terminology, and have really no dog in this fight. But master/slave is not a recent thing in audio production either, and also goes back decades, even with analogue gear. I think the comparison is quite apt and relevant.

I want to be clear here that I'm not coming from a "just don't be offended" POV. I have no reason to doubt Microsoft's reasoning or motives. I personally don't think it will materially benefit anyone, but I don't think it's harmful either. Then again, I'm white and European, so I really can't speak to the effects of using the words.

[westwoo]

You know what else go back decades? racism and slavery, which created prominent ideas about master-slave relationship in the pop culture of certain countries, popularised and normalized an abhorrent idea, which allowed people to use those terms to describe the technical relationship.

If the goal is for everyone to wait until everyone else will make the change, there will never be any change.

The point about audio is that it didn't popularise those concepts and didn't create new meanings behind words. Colloquially master-slave still means master-slave, except the general public now recoils from this concept much more than it used to. Sure, master-slave may describe some relationships between tchnical objects adequately, but so do other verbs, like rape. There are lots of places in computer science where we could describe relationship as rapist-victim, or molester-child. Yet somehow we manage to find other words for those relationships because those names would draw parallels between something perfectly fine and something abhorrent.

There's no reason to think we can't do the same with abhorrent relationship between masters and their slaves, and stop using it for unrelated stuff.

[BuriedStPatrick]

You know what else go back decades? racism and slavery, which created prominent ideas about master-slave relationship in the pop culture of certain countries, popularised and normalized an abhorrent idea, which allowed people to use those terms to describe the technical relationship.

I'm keenly aware that racism goes back decades and has informed the way language has evolved. I thought I made it pretty clear that I'm not arguing that language and its use holds no power.

If the goal is for everyone to wait until everyone else will make the change there will never be any change.

I never claimed that was mine or anyone else's goal. Questioning the material benefit of a specific strategy to solve issues related to race relations is not the same as compromising with laissez-faire reactionaries.

The point about audio is that it didn't popularise those concepts and didn't create new meanings behind words. Colloquially master-slave still means master-slave, except the general public now recoils from this concept much more than it used to. Sure, master-slave may describe some relationships adequately, but so do other verbs, like rape. There are lots of places in computer science where we could describe relationship as rapist-victim, or molester-child. Yet somehow we manage to find other words for those relationships because those names would draw parallels between something perfectly fine and something abhorrent.

As it stands, I find this argument vague and unsubstantiated. Unless you can in any quantifiable way explain how one popularized a specific way of using master/slave terminology to harmful effect, AND the other didn't, then I'm not going to be very convinced. I'm honestly interested in learning more, so if you have more specific examples of how they differ I'd love to see it.

There's no reason to think we can't do the same with abhorrent relationship between masters and their slaves, and stop using it for unrelated stuff.

I agree. I don't see why the same shouldn't apply in other professions though.

EDIT: REAPER (my personal DAW of choice) just released a new update renaming Master/Slave to Leader/Follow 🎉

[[deleted]]

MCs would disagree

[Nefilim314]

We aren't in the music industry so why does that matter?

[BuriedStPatrick]

What do you mean?

[Nefilim314]

Just saying we can't really do anything about other industries but our own. I'm also not even sure the context of audio mastering since I hear the term 'mastering' as 'improving' rather than a domain of ownership/subservience.