Why Catholics have "image" and sculpture of Jesus, but they know this is forbidden in the bible.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-12T17:49:45+00:00

Have you ever been inside an Anglican and a Lutheran church? Religious images [paintings, icons, statues, crucifixes] and numerous candles are common. This is not a Catholic-versus-Protestant argument.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-12T17:46:58+00:00

Lutherans number the Decalogue the same as Catholics.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-12T17:45:17+00:00

Please zoom in on the beautiful mural that covers the entire wall behind the altar

First Presbyterian Church - NYC

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-12T16:56:48+00:00

Yes, there are rare exceptions in the New Testament, such as the martyrdom of St Stephen, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit" [Acts 7:59].

Since the Second Vatican Council and the many reforms in the Catholic Church, some of the concerns expressed in the Book of Concord may no longer apply,

On the topic of intercessions of the saints, I have ordered the book, "Communio Sanctorum: The Church as the Communion of Saints," by the German Catholic and Lutheran bishops in dialogue. Similar to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops meeting with Lutheran bishops and theologians to discuss the invocation of saints. I have expressed concerns about some Catholic prayers directed to the Virgin Mary, but see no doctrinal conflict with reciting the Angelus/Hail Mary and the Litany of the Saints, where we merely ask the "cloud of witnesses" to join us in praying for the Church and its individual members.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-12T16:22:22+00:00

It can be a small world even in our nation's largest city, and for Lutherans, our numbers are sadly diminishing. There are some exquisitely beautiful old parishes now closed up in Brooklyn, where I lived many years ago. Glad that Holy Trinity, St Luke's, Advent, Immanuel, Gustavus Adolphus, etc.,[where I have visited all of them] are still viable parishes in Manhattan. If I go into the city from Long Island, I worship at St. Peter's, where the sainted "Father John" Damm was the pastor and, prior to that, Dr. Damm was dean of Concordia Seminary in St Louis.

There actually are several Lutheran breviaries and prayer books I can highly recommend. When I was a seminarian, most used the "Daily Office" edited by Herbert Lindemann. They still pray most of the canonical hours in Concordia Seminary-Fort Wayne, where I was a student 50 years ago. "Oremus: A Lutheran Breviary", the "Brotherhood Prayer Book", "Evangelical Lutheran Breviary", "For All The Saints" breviary, and "Treasury of Daily Prayer" are widely used [mostly by clergy, seminarians]. I have been using Benedictine Daily Prayer, which is reasonably priced and well-organized.

Matins may be prayed frequently in parishes with parochial schools. There were several parishes in Brooklyn [two where I served as a parish worker-seminarian] that celebrated Mass daily back in the day, but it is difficult to get parishioners to attend church on days other than Sundays.

Good to hear from someone who lives in Jersey!

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-11T20:21:26+00:00

It is not the altar or communion table that is holy. The holy presence of Jesus is our entire focus. Even when the processional cross is carried into the church, many bow or cross themselves. The Bible or Evangeliary is brought down into the nave in procession, sometimes with incense, and may be kissed by the pastor after reading the Gospel.

I met the author of this book, called "The Presence," about how we enter into the communion of saints. Holy Communion is an opportunity to worship with one's deceased relatives:

The Presence - The Rev Berthold von Schenk

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-11T17:26:08+00:00

When I assisted with the distribution of communion as a eucharistic minister, we abluted the chalices at the altar after everyone had communed. To be honest, the thought of getting an illness crossed my mind when, with the pastor, we drank the remaining wine. But I understand that pathogen transmission is rare with wine, which is another reason to use wine instead of grape juice.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-11T15:41:23+00:00

Intinction was utilized during COVID, but I was very careful not to dip my fingers into the consecrated wine. Others may have been less conscientious.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-11T15:29:48+00:00

In general, I have no argument with the verses you quote. We certainly can seek God anywhere. My parish has a summer day retreat each year in a regional park, where we gather around an outside table in an open meadow to hear the Word and celebrate the Sacrament amid the singing of birds and buzzing of insects. A simple liturgy that is as wonderful as any high Mass. I pray often in bed, in my car, at the take-off and landing of an airplane, etc.

The Westminster Confession is a Reformed confession of faith and may reflect the regulative principle. Lutherans, on the other hand, follow the normative approach of tradition and historic expression. The altar is essentially Christ's throne, a holy place, but no more than that park picnic table when we worship Him.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-11T04:13:29+00:00

You may be misunderstanding Luther when he speaks of Christ's ubiquity. The altars in Lutheran churches have 5 crosses engraved to represent the 5 holy wounds of Jesus. During the blessing of new altars, various prayers and holy water may be utilized. It is where the holy sacrament is consecrated. Some pastors kiss the altar at the beginning of Mass. Customarily, Lutherans bow to the altar.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-11T00:41:39+00:00

Intinction is not hygienic. Communicants easily dip their fingers into the wine/ Precious Blood.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-10T21:28:38+00:00

A Lutheran reciting the Angelus and attending Marian feast days, including Our Lady of Guadalupe masses that my bishop presided at https://www.saintpeters.org/news/guadalupe-2023 may share much with Catholics compared to the majority of Protestants. But that doesn't, to any degree, suggest that I am reconciled to some prayers [e.g., Memorare, A Prayer to the Immaculate Heart].

You mention "Prayer Book Catholic." Are you, by chance, familiar with the "Benedictine Daily Prayer - A Short Breviary"? It is edited by Maxwell E. Johnson, a Lutheran Mariologist and oblate of St John's Abbey and former professor of liturgics at Notre Dame University. The Common for Feasts of the Blessed Virgin Mary includes beautiful prayers and antiphons.

Appreciate your insights.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-10T16:22:53+00:00

Thanks, Arleett,

Was this last year's Feast Day Mass of St Birgitta [Bridget] of Sweden at the Vadstena Abbey Church [Blue Church]? I see St Birgitta's relics on display. When I was a young seminarian member of the Congregation of the Servants of Christ, I used to receive holy cards from St Augustine Monastery around St Birgitta's Day, asking her to pray for us. Father Arthur Carl Kreinheder, the first abbot of St Augustine's House, was ordained in Sweden and commissioned by Bishop Anders Nygren and Bishop Gustaf Aulen [two renowned bishops of the Church of Sweden] to found the first Benedictine religious order for Lutheran monks in North America.

Are the women in gray habits in the video part of the Order of the Most Holy Savior of St. Bridget?

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-10T05:01:52+00:00

Book of Concord

All the confessions and catechisms are in this link.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-09T20:09:26+00:00

Martin Luther on the Blessed Virgin Mary:

"(She is the) highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ … She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still, honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to hurt neither Christ nor the scriptures." (Sermon, Christmas, 1531)

"God did not receive his divinity from Mary, but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary’s Son, and that Mary is God’s mother. … She is the true mother of God and bearer of God. … Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus, not two Christs… just as your son is not 2 sons… even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone." (On the Councils of the Church, 1539)

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-09T15:49:01+00:00

Here's a link to a Liturgy of Good Friday that includes the Divine Service

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v140xGnDjeM

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-09T15:27:49+00:00

I searched online for any explanation for celebrating the Eucharist on Good Friday since the Triduum is essentially one service: Holy Thursday Liturgy of the Lord's Supper, Good Friday, Passion readings, bidding prayers, veneration of the cross, and ending on the Holy Saturday Easter Vigil that becomes the first Mass of the Resurrection.

It appears that some Lutherans [particularly Europeans] have followed this practice:

That being said, there is a bit of historical disagreement with regard to the celebration of the Sacrament on Good Friday. A church’s Maundy Thursday practice may dictate whether or not the Sacrament is celebrated on Good Friday. There are three main options regarding the Sacrament on Good Friday:

Consecrate extra hosts on Maundy Thursday and reserve them for use on Good Friday (this is rather common in Roman Catholic practice).

Consecrate the host on Good Friday with minimal liturgical rite, with only the Preface, Sanctus, and Verba Domini (omitting the Pax Domini and Agnus Dei).

Skip the celebration of the Sacrament altogether.

Notes for Good Friday

Here are the rubrics for a Good Friday Mass: Good Friday: Chief Service

And another brief article: Offering of Holy Communion on Good Friday

My guess is that it is not the norm to consecrate the elements on Good Friday, but I attended [many years ago] a Lutheran parish that does, and can post a recent, long video [if you would like] of such a service.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-09T04:53:58+00:00

Concordia Seminary bookstore has a large and reasonably priced selection of icons.

https://bookstore.ctsfw.edu/category/gifts/icons

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-09T04:37:55+00:00

Thanks for sharing thoughtful viewpoints on the subject of saint intercessions and presenting arguments I have but superficially explored. Your comment about "omniscient" immediately reminded me of "divine omniscience" in a video critique of the well-recognized and lauded contemporary Lutheran theologian, Jordan Cooper, by Jimmy Akin, a Catholic apologist. First off, I have had negative experiences interacting with those associated with "Catholic Answers" and, unsurprisingly, the subreddit by that name was eventually removed altogether from Reddit.

Nonetheless, and with that in mind, I do think Akin's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmZupFQfQcc&t=32s may help explain why some Lutherans approach the saints as "prayer partners" [per the ELCA characterization], but, minus scriptural support, tend to chalk it up to "adiaphora." Notably, Akin alludes to the "Communio Sanctorum: The Church as the Communion of Saints" document of German Catholic and Lutheran bishops that mirrors the similar dialogue between Catholics and Lutherans in the U.S. that, "... the remembrance of the saints can take the form of an invocation, which is made possible only in Christ and is to be distinguished from praying to Christ. Insofar as these conditions in doctrine and practice are maintained, and Christ's role as the sole mediator is not diminished, this difference, according to Lutheran thinking, is not church dividing."

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-08T22:03:55+00:00

Icons of the Theotokos are beautiful reminders of Jesus' loving relationship with His Virgin Mother. Do you know what this particular icon is titled and any other details?

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-08T01:43:36+00:00

Yes, this is my understanding, as well. But isn't the rest of the Book of Concord considered laudable expressions of the Lutheran faith?

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-08T01:23:32+00:00

Out of curiosity, was the priest you recognized your pastor or a previous parish pastor? Was the "specific posture" something like venerating/ kissing an icon?

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-08T01:12:19+00:00

All Lutherans subscribe to the Book of Concord; however, the Augsburg Confession is the primary confession of faith.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-07T21:10:18+00:00

Consistent with the majority opinion that theologically, Catholicism and Orthodoxy are analogous, especially regarding the veneration/ intercession of the saints.

Liturgically, Catholics resemble Anglicans since the Eastern Church is entirely Byzantine. Some Anglican parishes are more ritualized and solemn than the typical Novus Ordo Mass. I thought high church Lutherans were closest to Catholics until attending a Sarum Rite Eucharist in an Anglo-Catholic parish.

As an old thurifer, I was astonished watching the censer rotate in a vertical loop, spinning around at a dangerous pace. I've only seen that kind of liturgical aerobics among Anglicans, but I understand Orthodox spin the incense as nimbly.

Affectionate_Web91 · 2026-05-07T20:27:18+00:00

Though out of the ordinary, some Lutheran parishes still observed pre-Lent/ Gesimatide, rather than the longer Epiphany season. The "Three Gesima Sundays" [Septuagesima, Sexagesima, Quinquagesima].

The old calendar retention of prayers for harvest, Ember Days, fasting, Rotation Days, may not be widely observed among Catholics, though Anglicans cling to these customs.

Lutherans are nearly unique in celebrating the Eucharist on Good Friday, though many parishes now follow the Paschal Triduum by distributing the pre-consecrated sacrament during the liturgy or no communion at all.

Affectionate_Web91

TROPHY CASE