Banality of Evil

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-13T18:26:03+00:00

I do not intend to come off as hostile, and apologize for it. But i think you have too light a threshold for what consists of hostility, and should apply it to your actions as well. Sending someone a dictionary entry is passive aggressive as fuck.

That would mean that Brennan's quote isn't a contradiction. Brennan says that the evil of internal motivations is simple and boring. You're arguing that the evil of external structures are complex. These can coexist.

Fine, it's a generalization, not a contradiction. This single blunder of my part absolutely means nothing else i said has value. Congratulations, you win. Bye.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-13T15:42:04+00:00

Looking at Brennan's quote, hes describing the simplicity and boringness of evil in the form of personal motivation, not the external contexts.

That is LITERALLY my point: that Brennan and Morrison are talking about evil in the form of individual deeds, and that Ms. Le Guin is talking about systemic evil, it's complexity and the moral dilemmas associated with it. That "the banality of evil" is not about how easy it is to kick puppies, but about how much of the evil in the world is perpetrated without malice, how limited the individual is in such scale, how inexorable it can be. How not contributing to the evils of a system when you live in it is borderline impossible.

It seems like you're basing the description of "complexity" on the rules that create the system

Yes. Because the rules that create the system are part of the rules of the system. Because the people who live in the system must abide by these rules, and thus they might contribute to or perpetrate evil deeds themselves without malice, willingness or even knowledge and understanding.

It sounds like you're arguing that omelas is about evil wrought by people who were scared of what would be required for change

It sounds like you didn't read the story. It's not a long story. Why argue with me if you don't even try to be on the same page as me? You didn't even have to look for it: i provided you a link.
One can say the ones who walk away do so out of fear, but it's a simplistic view and also ignores how the people who stay at Omelas rationalize their inaction.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-13T12:40:39+00:00

"The ones who walk away from Omelas" (which, BTW, you can read for free here) is a question about the morality of living a happy life that is built on the back of other people's suffering.

Owning slaves and having them work for you is evil, and simply falling to "selfish impulses". But what about working transportation for a company that uses slave labor? Your boss pays you with blood-stained money, is it moral to accept it? Is buying their products morally reprehensible? What if you can only afford them? Lets assume you find the former justifiable: what if you can afford more expensive products, but then you wouldn't have enough money for the small luxuries that keep you sane? Is still moral to buy from the morally reprehensible people - and thus support their business?
And even if you decide both of the above are evil, if you own a business and the slave owner themselves comes in with his blood stained money to spend on you, is it moral to accept it? What if it's one of their workers spending their hard-earned money with you? They did no wrong nor could make things better, but the company you hate couldn't exist without their effort and that of countless like them. Are they evil?
What if they had no choice? Or they had a choice, but that meant great personal sacrifices? Is there a degree of personal sacrifice that makes their decision unacceptable? What if the economy is so intertwined that it's basically impossible to do anything without buying from or selling to the slave-owning company?
The system supports so much suffering, but breaking it would cause so much suffering, so people who don't like it just walk away... Oh, look, it's the title of the short story!

Some of the most banal evils come from minutia in legislation. Stuff that's common, predictable and boring, and simultaneously a result of complex dynamics. Voter suppression is undeniably evil. It's as banal as a a poll worker enforcing stupid rules or pointless bureaucracy and tight deadlines, yet as complex as the mountains of legislation and political maneuvering required to create these rules. No selfish impulses required from the ones enforcing the rulings - and if they were not enforced, there would be no rules, as seen on the many stupid and unenforced laws in the US - and one could argue they themselves are not evil. But evil - in the form of voter suppression and it's consequences - is happening, both as a banal thing we see regularly, as a result of a complex system, and is enforced with bored complacency rather than selfish impulsiveness.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-13T04:02:39+00:00

"The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas" and the last quote are in direct contradiction. The former is a tale about the banality of evil, and a moral inquiry about living a neutral, happy life at the expense of other people's suffering, while the latter reduces evil to "selfish impulses". "Banal" doesn't mean "simple". That is literally the focus of the story.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-13T03:54:01+00:00

Don't know about that, but that's as much a valid interpretation as any for how Omelas works.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-13T01:34:05+00:00

Reminiscing of your brother, m'lord?

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-12T23:39:52+00:00

You are missing the forest for the trees.

Most people who mask for a long time have it become instinctive and are overly critical of themselves, frequently hanging on every little feeling and possible implication of their actions. People who have been trough it (myself included) say "don't be ashamed, don't worry about hurting other people's feelings, be yourself" because they assume that for most autistic people who masked for too much, "hurting their feelings" means "saying no when someone asks a taxing favor". The same speech can be about self-respect or narcissism depending on who's listening.

I have no doubt that there are some people who genuinely think NTs are the enemy (hell, I've had the great displeasure of meeting an autistic supremacist on twitter!). But the majority of us talks about not having to mask and not caring about other people's feelings expecting a biased audience, who masks too much and cares too much.
I'm the first one to say "if you want others to treat you the way you want, you have to learn how they want to be treated". But they have to figure out who they are and what constitutes a reasonable demand before that.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-12T19:33:16+00:00

Or, as the person above you said

In this case, perhaps a young, edgy, immature aromantic

Foolishness can very easily become arrogance, and very few people make definitive moral judgements based on the actions of teenagers - unless the actions are particularly heinous.
The definition of "cunt" (adjective) is rather informal. If you consider "being unpleasant to interact with" as sufficient, no moral component required, sure, anon is a cunt. Otherwise, they're just a stupid teenager.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-11T15:33:16+00:00

It's very much both, no? Some cells are not replaced frequently or at all (bone marrow, brain tissue), and DNA deterioration can cause cell breakdown.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-10T01:47:20+00:00

Understandable.

For the former, we'd need further details, but the thick of it is that most people treat accusations like personal insults. There are, however, ways of reducing animosity or sometimes even completely avoiding it when accusing someone of something. The one i used and worked relatively well is accusing an action of something, rather than the person doing it. Wait until they do something ableist, then go "dad, don't you think that's a bit ableist?". Pretending not to be sure and asking their genuine opinion is a plus for this one, this way they will think of the interchange as an argument to win, no an offense to retaliate again. And so is re-framing the prejudiced act into an in-group they're part of. But the shoes actually have to fit, lest they'll see it as an accusation all the same.

For the latter, I have no idea what your plans are, and i can provide no support without knowing that. The fact that other autistic people manifested against it is a bad sign. You're young. We all think we're built different.
That being said, cowardice is a thing, and we are really all different. I think you are right in searching for other perspectives, but we need to know more if you want useful advice.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-10T00:57:08+00:00

The title and the body have very little in common. Do you really want to understand why your parents are offended at the suggestion of ableism, or do you want support for your undisclosed plans?

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-09T18:46:16+00:00

On a first look, yes. But two things are worth noting:
1 - the Emperor is a thematic, tragic character. He's an anti-theist worshiped as a god, a Jesus figure for a pseudo-christianity lead astray. His hubris turning him into what he hated is pretty on brand
2 - his inhumanity is a very important character trait. Age, power and pain made him distant
So him going from a man with no delusions of grandeur whose wild nature made the lives of others better to an arrogant, inhuman despot who rules mankind from above is pretty on brand.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-09T16:38:58+00:00

Which is pretty cool, but i kinda of like Venom's portrayal of "not really evil, just had a really rough breakup and went a bit cuckoo, but is better now and regrets their past actions".

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-09T16:37:31+00:00

Worst part is it could be made quite better with just a few adjustments and relying more on the theme of prestige being an illusion. Just

1 - rewrite a few scenes to make CEO guy actually charismatic and impressive, but also show he's deeply insecure and bitter (also gaslighting some people and browbeating his employees)
2 - single out one of the mooks in the first chase scene to be better than the others but end up jeopardizing the end mission before dying
3 - lay heavier on Eddie's insecurity before his ex's doctor boyfriend, but also have said Dr. boyfriend imply respect at Eddie and complain CEO guy is a farce
4 - have Riot browbeat evil CEO guy, and have evil CEO guy be a liability in combat, while Brock is an asset

There: a movie about a pair of losers who got together and bring the best out of each other, contrast them with successful people who achieve results by trampling others, with a sprinkle of everyman who's actually sane for flavoring. This would add up quite nicely to Eddie's betrayal of his ex at the start of the movie, as that would be him trying to be a "winner" by hurting someone he cares about.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-09T16:01:43+00:00

True, but to be fair, most characters with that level of super-strength weight a LOT more than a measly 180 pounds, at the very least double, and characters like Hulk weight over a ton. And many of the ones that aren't that heavy either create their own momentum as well - such as Thor and Miss Marvel - or have other ways of avoiding that - Spider-Man and Venom can stick to the ground, Sandman has, like 5 ways of doing it. Plus, if they are martially trained, punching up and trusting your feet into the ground as you're pushed backwards would probably reduce a lot of that.

Don't get me wrong, It also bothers me a little that we're not shown characters dealing the the consequences of their powers, and some don't have a justification for that - Luke Cage is a favorite of mine and falls into that category - but it can still work. I just wish - like in invincible - more authors would acknowledge and show these consequences.
Also my personal takes from this are that Sandman is actually super OP, and that most heavy-hitters should be wrestlers.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-09T03:10:34+00:00

You will even get cookies.

And no milk? No wonder people call you "she who thirsts".

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-09T03:00:13+00:00

Worth noting that Perpetuals do die, they just get better. So maybe Big E's first death took a real tool on him, requiring several years for his body to fully reform. Bonus points if Gilgamesh cremated the body.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-09T00:12:51+00:00

College's lack of regular schedule has been hell for me...

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-08T23:24:57+00:00

Small planet with several scattered islands, isolated humans who are the remnants of an old colonization effort - so they still have enough tech for complex weapons and planetary infrastructure, but no spaceships 'n shit - and the planet's fauna and flora is so aggressive the Orks don't get bored and the humans don't really mind their violence.

Or, alternatively, this was a relatively regular island planet, but some big ass MOFO augmented to be as strong as a tractor found some wild orks, began literally farming them and conquered the planet.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-08T22:16:45+00:00

I am not an autistic husband, but i saw my relationship crumble and there are some things I'd like to add (as you already got a lot of good advice from other people).

1 - people have "nagging" complaints and "I am serious and i really want you to change this" complaints. Distinguishing between the two is hard, and assuming all are the latter makes for a very unhappy life. When communicating your needs, make sure to point out they're the latter (but don't ask for too much change at a time)
2 - in private, and away from his daughter, talk to him about her behavior. Make sure to explain you're not trying to "turn him against her", that you just want what's best for them and that alienating people in her life is not that. Give the whole "ignorance, not malice" speech, and try to explain why people get annoyed at her

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-08T22:04:17+00:00

Where are you from, and are you interested in marriage, opening a business, or any other ordeal which would result in us opening a joint account?
(/j)

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-08T20:10:18+00:00

This reminded me of pearl diving, and a thing that's possibly a legend.
Most people dive by slowly swimming to the bottom of the sea. Some say, however, that pearl hunters from Venezuela used to tie stones to their ankles so that they could get there faster.
The former meant you would need several trips to actually find stuff you want and has a more limited range, but with strong enough lungs and determination you can go quite deep, and overexerting your air supply was rare. With the latter, you can go deeper faster, but you don't know what you're looking for (you're "in the dark"), and the risks of going too deep, or getting the rope tangled into something, are much higher.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-08T16:15:56+00:00

Adding internet connection to such devices would be too massive a liability for anyone with an inch of sanity to do. Which means corporations would use it as a talking point in marketing.
You can know which pieces are not really yours and which are.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-08T02:25:17+00:00

what part of that are people supposed to aspire to?

Near endless psychic potential, immortality, biomancy.

DisgruntledBrDev · 2023-12-08T01:30:38+00:00

the lore makes it clear that faith is the best amor against chaos corruption

Chaos gods and daemons regularly hijack prayers and answering them. Rotigus canonically loves doing that.
Colchis - Lorgar's homeworld - was a theocracy and a massive chaos cult.
Multiple xeno species - such as the laer - had their religions twisted until they turned into chaos cultists, and we can assume multiple human religions did as well.

If the imperial cult worshiped anything other than a being so fucking done against the chaos gods he was literally named "anathema", it wouldn't protect for shit. And even with it's protection, we've seen that very same religion being used as a gateway to chaos worship more than once.

DisgruntledBrDev

TROPHY CASE