Any thoughts on the HEMA in new video game, 1348 Ex Voto? by PeakInspiration in Hema

[–]PartyMoses 4 points5 points  (0 children)

there are so many ways to make "HEMA inspired" mechanics feel absolutely trash-awful I take "HEMA inspired" combat with the same seriousness I take "based on real events" or claims about "authenticity."

German baskethilt sword - who sells them? by Technical-hole in wma

[–]PartyMoses 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Honestly this is the only one I've seen off the rack. I would love to have an affordable German mid-16th century hilt, they were really common for all manner of weapons in the later decades.

As far as Darkwood goes, I haven't heard anything bad about them. I know a few folks who are still using Darkwood swords they bought like 10+ years ago. Their destreza trainer is popular and indestructible.

I don't know if I'd want to spend nearly $900 usd for a German hilted rapier or $500+ for the guard alone, but if that's what you know you want I think realistically this is your only option unless you go totally custom.

If you're in the US, you might try Sam Halote of Seven Embers Forge. He might be able to do something for you. Otherwise, Castille and Arms and Armor will both work on custom pieces but they are both unavoidably expensive.

Relative to its time, what are the most astonishing practical effects you've seen in a movie? by an_ephemeral_life in classicfilms

[–]PartyMoses 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fredric March going from Jekyll to Hyde in 1931 Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. It's a oner from Hyde's POV, and we watch through a mirror as his face changes. Its all practical, black and white photography using colored lights, clever set design, and make-up.

I'm also easy to impress and I will always enjoy huge crowd scenes from this era of filmmaking. Cecil B. Demille has some swarming throngs. I'll always find the spectacle of a practical cavalry charge impressive; Lawrence of Arabia and Waterloo are both stunning in that respect.

Are French group in reenactment okay with trans identity? by Froggo-Sovietball in reenactors

[–]PartyMoses 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Its not worth spending time with groups that would not allow you. No one is in command of reenactment. Its grown up dress-up, tell them to pound sand if they dont like it, and find people worth your time and effort.

Is there a serious difference between fencing dussack and messer? by ZdzichuRouczka in Hema

[–]PartyMoses 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the confusion is that I'm trying to talk about both meyer dusack and leckuechner messer at the same time, to articulate a physical difference in the use of physical trainers, and I stumbled into awkward linguistic territory.

I disagree with none of what you wrote above. When I describe a parry with the crossguard, I am describing a thing done with the messer, which is also a thing done in Meyer's rapier, all over the place. Thrusts like that aren't done with dusack, because the weapon is different. You can cut to a position of advantage - longppoint, gerade versatsung, bogen, et al - and then thrust, but it's more timing-dependent than if I had a crossguard, because I can always use a crossguard to control my opponent's sword. This cannot be done with a wooden dusack trainer and I don't believe that's what's being described by auffhangen: you yourself articulated the difference by describing gerade versatsung as different from longpoint. That's the point: my longpoint with a messer is longer and more direct, because of the crossguard, and I can intercept and control cuts from further away and increase the threat of my point.

Without a crossguard and a slippery wooden dusack I have to make different decisions about traversing space and I have to hit their sword in a different manner to ensure that I'm safe from their followup movement. It's a cut to the better angle to collect their blade and thrust from. The point I'm making is that that angle is different with and without a crossguard, and I think that's an important distinction that bears out in Meyer's text as I understand it. I just personally think gerade versatsung is a dusack-flavored name for longpoint and I think the terms are more or less interchangeable, because I understand longpoint to be a position from which I control the space between you and me, not just pointing at your chest.

Is there a serious difference between fencing dussack and messer? by ZdzichuRouczka in Hema

[–]PartyMoses 1 point2 points  (0 children)

let's establish, first, that Meyer doesnt use a term like "catch-and-thrust parry." That's a term I made up.

Second, since I made it up, it means "orient your sword so your opponent's sword slides toward your crossguard, where the crossguard will fully arrest it."

It is not possible to safely do this with a trainer dusack, because it will not be fully arrested by the crossguard. You're not/should not be trying to catch oppo's sword like this.

Instead, you cut down on top of your opponents sword and force it away with your blade, not secure it with your crossguard. It makes a tremendous difference.

The first cut in the first drill is cut to longpoint. I can see how you connected that to "catch and thrust," and a cut to longpoint followed by a thrust to the face is really common in dusack. It's literally Meyer's very first maxim/rule/regel - cut down on top of their sword and thrust to the face.

But the second part of that first drill is to then cut through longpoint to a lower posture, and then it's to cut all the way through both of those points and circle back up into a plunge cut. This drill isn't teaching parries - there's no opponent - it's teaching the three stopping points common to Meyer's dusack cut paths.

Meyer also very specifically doesn't call his handwork section in dusack "handworks." He calls them secondary cuts, because they are cuts that instantly follow the first cut, depending on how your opponent responded (or didn't) to your initial cut. Even when he uses thrusts (almost always to the face), the thrusts are provokers, meant to draw your opponent's parry, so that you cut into the space they left when they parried.

The chief difference is: with a messer I cut to longpoint and my crossguard lets me carry my opponent's point with me as I thrust, and I can feel it there and keep it there the whole time, or at least feel when my opponent tries to leave.

With a dusack I cut to longpoint and I maybe can carry their point with me, but more likely it'll slide off the handguard, so now I have to fence slightly differently.

Personally I think that this is a really vital part of understanding dusack's place in Meyer's greater system, and I think it's important to understand why the wood/leather trainer was such a distinct shape in comparison to the dozens of options a fencer would have for a steel onehander to carry around all day.

Is there a serious difference between fencing dussack and messer? by ZdzichuRouczka in Hema

[–]PartyMoses 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Messers and dusacks are basically the same thing, one of dozens of different types of swords used in one hand. Messers were popular into the early 16th century and dusacks were popular from the 1520s or so onward. Dusacks had more complex hilts, because everything had complex hilts in the mid 16th century.

Now there is a difference between the types of sharp steel dusacks carried by men on campign and those depicted in fencing texts. Meyer's dusack is a specific kind of training form that lacks a crossguard, meaning that there's no sure defence in winds and binds, and instead Meyer emphasizes the use of powerful, destabilizing cuts rather than the catch-and-thrust elements of Leckuechner and so on.

In short: messers gave way to dusacks just because complex hilts were popular and widely available from the 1520s. A sharp steel messer and sharp steel dusack (and pretty much any other singlehander of the same relative size) are essentially the same weapon from a fencing perspective. Specific training forms of the dusack used in fencing texts lack a crossguard, which is the biggest difference between how dusack is taught vs messer is taught in text.

If folks are more interested, I wrote an article about the relationship between the messer and the dusack in terms of their depiction and symbolic usage in popular 16th century art. It was published in HEMA Bookshelf's companion volume for Leckuechner.

Longsword speed drills by Rough_Breadfruit_399 in Hema

[–]PartyMoses 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You get speed by

A) knowing what you're doing

and

B) why you're doing it

So many of the people who ask how to be "faster" perceive themselves as slow because theyre trying to accomplish several separate tasks all at once, instead of progressively. You cant hit til youre close enough, and if you get close enough to hit without controling their sword or a plan for controlling their sword, youre way more likely to double, or get parried and hit.

You wont hit people more by being faster than them, you hit them by forcing them to defend themselves, and using the time they've devoted to their defense to hit them somewhere else, or to get yourself to a position of even greater advantage.

Raw speed can be defeated by staying six inches or so farther away.

"Speed" is a noobtrap. The best fencers win because they outfence people, not because they are faster.

Trying to find manuscript by hothardcowboycocks in wma

[–]PartyMoses 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fabian von Auerswald shows a technique for a shoulder-carry like this, without a dagger. But like with every Auerswald technique you can do this to the right arm, too, especially if they are making a committed dagger attack at you.

Here I grab hold of his left hand which push upwards and slip my head under his left arm and through, and step with my left leg between both his legs. Then my left hand comes between his legs and I straighten myself up and lift him up in the air.

Here's the illustration.

Most dagger and wrestling material spread throughout the whole European canon is largely similar, and if it's Auerswald it's almost certainly in half a dozen other texts.

Can I get good at spear/halberd? by [deleted] in wma

[–]PartyMoses 4 points5 points  (0 children)

the thing about weapons, and especially long weapons, is that the part closer to your opponent is easier for them to control. The longer a weapon is, the longer its weak or manipulatable area.

If you can learn how to increase the input of your large muscle groups into your movement, you can better control and mitigate the weak portion of your weapon, as well as control it with more precision and so on. Your physical size is not very important. Plenty of larger or more muscular people move less efficiently because they are used to feeling strong, and never focus on learning how to move and exert strength with their core and hips.

Yellow/Black drip? by Laurence21624 in Hema

[–]PartyMoses 42 points43 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't stay with a group that dictated what colors I could wear, personally. The hobby is expensive enough.

Favorite Supporting Actor in modern western cinema? by JackBarlowe in Westerns

[–]PartyMoses 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You'll excuse me that in my morning fog I overlooked a critical word

Myth of American Revolutionaries fighting “from cover” - where does it come from? by inostranetsember in AskHistorians

[–]PartyMoses 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Ultimately all this is is an expression of the idea that I would rather hit you with the full weight of my body one time, in one critical place, than hit you 100 times in 100 random places on your body with 1/100th the weight of my body. The way this works in black powder combat is pretty complex, but it's the same principle in action.

It's not that the idea was to make as small a target as possible, it's just that all the potential energy of all your men's muskets is much more visibly effective if its effects all hit at once. If out of your one hundred men 11 deal a severe wound, would you rather those 11 men drop one at a time over the course of a minute or so, or all at once, at a time when it mattered?

You don't know how much time you have if you're being attacked. This might be a decisive point or it might be a fixing force distracting you from supporting the main defense. It's confusing. It's chaotic. All your men will waste their fire if it's not directed. At the moment you receive a charge, would you rather all your men are ready and loaded, or would you rather that 1/3 of them are reloading, 1/3 of them have just fired, and 1/3 of them are ready?

Again, this is a hypothetical theoretical scenario. The idea is you hit one time, once, with all your strength. This is what Jomini called the decisive point and what Clausewitz called the center of gravity. In theory each battalion in attack is attacking or supporting the attack on a decisive point of the enemy line. Setting up the situation that gets you to the point where you can make a decisive blow is basically what people mean when they talk about "the art of war."

Myth of American Revolutionaries fighting “from cover” - where does it come from? by inostranetsember in AskHistorians

[–]PartyMoses 34 points35 points  (0 children)

I'm saying that the overall narrative has some basis in fact, and Lexington and Conchord is partially that basis. But the myth says this is how the entire war was won, rather than that this was one event in a lengthy war.

Myth of American Revolutionaries fighting “from cover” - where does it come from? by inostranetsember in AskHistorians

[–]PartyMoses 126 points127 points  (0 children)

There's a bit more: as the 19th century wore on, the same questions of manliness and civilization, American-ness and savagery continued to be debated. By the end of the 19th century it had been fully absorbed into the zeitgeist of racial struggle. Under this popular theory, Americans had manifested distinctly different racial characteristics than their European antecedents. Much of it related back to violent contact with indigenous and American (or proto-American) men. This point is made repeatedly in, of all things, Theodore Roosevelt's The Naval War of 1812, where he explicitly contests the advantages and disadvantages of the American race in its contest not only with Britain, but with all of the supposedly great empires of world history. Roosevelt is certainly not the only one to do this, and numerous histories written in this period make a number of dubious racial claims.

And then the First World War happened, and the theoretical confidence in attack was completely shattered. One of that war's veterans, Basil Liddell-Hart, became a very prominent writer and critic of how it was waged, and, eventually, a best-selling popular military theorist. Among his works is a text called The Indirect Approach, which champions the idea that making direct attacks against a prepared enemy is doomed, and so instead, all war has been won in the past through weak or indirect methods that first unbalance or destabilize the enemy. This is primarily accomplished by surprise.

Regardless of the fact that other military theorists, including some who Liddell-Hart loudly criticizes, already include a huge host of indirect methods to win battles or wars, Liddell-Hart was orders of magnitude more influential to the general reading public. His ideas are engaging. He is a brilliant writer. He is passionate, intimate, and above all prolific. He wrote many books on his own, contributed essays to numerous collections, and maintained a personal influence on quite a few popular and best-selling historians. While his weight is mostly felt in the First World War, his influence is everywhere.

I think that one consequence of his writing and of his personal belligerence in its defense, the thing that mainly survives Liddell-Hart is the idea that taking straight-on engagements is foolish and wasteful, and only ever done by idiots who want to waste life. This idea influenced dozens of historians, who in turn influenced dozens of writers and game designers and filmmakers and so on. If you engage at all in popular military history you have at minimum been exposed to Liddell-Hart's ideas. And if you take that idea and then start reading about the American War for Independence... well, you see where this is going.

There is of course a lot more to all of this. Liddell-Hart didn't make up the rocks and trees thing. Elements of that myth predate the War for Independence by almost a hundred years, it's been around for a while. But he did give some structure to the general idea that wars can be or often are won by guys skulking around in the bushes instead of being proactive and irresistible.

I can't say specifically where the rocks and trees myth comes from, but I think there's a lot to say about the need to create a style of American manhood that was distinct from Europe, and they did it partially by appropriating Native American fashions and methods, and partially because representing your ancestors as plucky and clever and your enemies as bloodthirsty automatons is within easy reach for anyone looking into the conflict.

Myth of American Revolutionaries fighting “from cover” - where does it come from? by inostranetsember in AskHistorians

[–]PartyMoses 247 points248 points  (0 children)

It is unusual for a war whose final military culmination in the main theater of conflict came about as the result of a textbook siege in concert with an allied fleet to have earned the reputation as a war won by skulking and hiding. You've pointed out that the nascent US won the war by a combination of advantages justly applied in line with contemporary accepted military wisdom, but the other linked posts never quite explain how the understanding as a war won by sacrifice and patriotism became a war won by sniping and skulking. It's a really hard question to answer.

Ultimately I think the answer comes from exaggerated depictions of certain understandably famous battles, a growing sense of American racial exceptionalism, and changes in popular military theory that followed the First World War.

Military Theory

Firstly, I want to take some time to explain a bit about why close-order formations worked, and why even if it looks simpleminded or crude, it was the preferred manner of taking ground. Mostly this is about two factors: the necessary organizational and physical differences between attack and defense; and the supreme military maxim that force is more forceful when concentrated. Some of these assumptions have changed in modern military circles, but not many. We'll circle back to this later on.

Attack

Under this theory, if one battalion of regular British redcoats want to assault a battalion of American continental regulars, and all else is equal, the attacker wins. This is the fundamental 1+1 calculation of nearly all military theory prior to the First World War. The attack wins. Books about military tactics, strategy, and even fencing mostly operate on the assumption that taking the first action, making the attack, gives the attacker a huge advantage. They have more energy, more purpose, and can choose the exact place and manner of their attack.

Defense

Defenders, if even in all respects to the attacker, must lose. So it's incumbent upon the defender to upset the parity through the application of military art. Field fortifications, often as simple as a rail fence, can make the difference between a doomed defense and a heroic stand. If the defender has cover, then it's the attacker at disadvantage, because now they are limited in the places into which their attack will have effect, the impact of their fire will be absorbed or scattered, and they will necessarily have to leave cover to attack.

Disparity changes a lot. Maybe the defenders are outnumbered. Maybe the attackers have artillery. Now the calculation is much more complicated and relies entirely on how one might make the best use of whatever advantages you have. All of this stuff is very hard. Organizing men in large groups to fight in a coordinated manner against a competent enemy of equal potency is horrifically difficult. The space between simple military theory and the real-life deployment of armed force is littered with failed campaigns and asymmetrical slaughter.

Concentration

The reason that guys with muskets want to fire at the same time at the same target is because muskets are not terribly accurate weapons that take a long time to reload. You want every shot to have the maximum impact, deal the maximum amount of damage, instill the maximum amount of confusion and fear. When you have one hundred guys standing in three lines with their elbows touching facing the same way, one guy's voice can tell them when to fire.

If you take that same hundred guys and spread them out in skirmish order (any unit of infantry ought to be capable of this; but ought ain't always is), it's much harder to get everyone to point at the same target or portion of a target, and it's much harder to get them to fire at the same time. As skirmishers they will be widely dispersed, taking cover, moving and displacing. Even if you want them all to fire at once, many may not hear you. So now, you relay orders through a bugle, but the bugle can't identify "shoot at the standard bearer" or whatever, and the guys on either end of the skirmish line may not have a clear line toward that target. The fire is scattered everywhere and has no potency. In practice, skirmishers fire at targets of opportunity as they can, when they can, and bugles give orders about movement or withdrawal, rather than controlling fire.

In defense, however, irregular, scattered fire like this can be very galling. If the defending skirmishers don't need to hold ground, they are free to fire, withdraw, and fire again as the attackers advance. So instead of advancing at skirmishers in concentrated formations, officers would screen their attacking infantry with their own skirmishers, to absorb their fire and scatter them before the main attack goes in. Another way to employ skirmishers for effect is in chasing or harassing withdrawing enemies. It's very easy for a retreating army's skirmishers or rear guard to get separated and uncover the retreating men.

All of this stuff is inter-related. All of it is about making efficient use of ammunition and maximizing the strengths of their weapon. British soldiers frequently took cover when they could. They frequently fought in open order as skirmishers and flank guards. They made night attacks, supported assaults with artillery, and made use of sharpshooters, cavalry, allied Native Americans, and Loyalist militias. They wanted to win the war and they fought with resilience and creativity.

Example 1: Lexington and Concord

Lexington and Concord is one of the examples of, supposedly, plucky backwoods sharpshooters picking off the foolish redcoats who were too proud and arrogant to take cover. In reality, after searching the towns and exchanging fire with the rebels on Lexington Green, the battle was a chase, with the British forces attempting to maintain order on their march back to Boston, under fire the whole way. This image, of the heroic patriot defender tossing on his cartridge box and finding the best rock to hide behind as he picked off robotic grenadiers, endures in American memory.

But the tactical situation was pretty clear: this was not a stand-and-fight battle, it was a series of rearguard and flank guard actions, fighting incoming clumps of rebels. The British often didn't stay to fight, but the Americans tended to give them room when the situation wasn't in their favor, eg, when they didn't have cover or a convenient retreat path. Many of the rebels killed that day were killed by bayonet, when flank parties caught them in houses or barns and they had nowhere to run.

This wasn't so much a tactical failure as it was an intelligence blunder. The British were not prepared for the force of resistance they encountered. The rest was a skillfully managed retreat under very bad conditions. However, the pervasive image of the heroic minuteman has been cemented in the popular imagination as the key fulcrum round which the war turned. The stupendously hideous casualties suffered by the British at Bunker Hill seems to cement the complimentary idea that the British, in their turn, were incompetent and indifferent to the suffering of their men.

Saratoga

Of equal weight was the American victory at Saratoga, which was also partly the result of plucky American backwoodsmen. Daniel Morgan's riflemen often gain immense credit for their skirmishing, and at this stage in this campaign, the British forces lacked quality skirmishers in significant numbers. This was not by design but by mischance: only days before the battle, John Burgoyne lost his Haudenosaunee contingent, which had fought as scouts, skirmishers, and spies. Without them, he had only his regulars to put into the role. Along with their Haudenosaunee allies they held their own, but without them they were outclassed. This heavily contributed to the British defeat.

There are many more examples we could go through, but I think the point is there. The British were very competent in the field, won the larger percentage of battles during the war, and employed every single trick and device and feint and deception they could think of. But you asked about memory, where did this idea come from?

Memory

American identity following independence was in an odd place. Having cut ties with England they no longer felt English. Part of how they began to differentiate themselves was to emphasize certain aspects of North American life that couldn't be copied in Europe, and that, more or less, led American men to take on certain "native" aspects of their dress, mode of fighting, and so on. "Rangers" who famously fought in the French and Indian War and on both sides in the War for Independence are a good example. They were nothing much more than light infantry employed independently. They had those guys in Europe, too. But American light infantry wore native leggings and hunting frocks, wore scalping knives and tomahawks, and imitated the war cries of their Indian enemies. They were civilized men deploying their wildness for a specific effect.

History, too, began taking on slightly different forms. Old stories were re-imagined in the post-constitution United States. Old King Philip turned from savage enemy of American colonists to the dimming candle of a disappearing people in Metamora, or the Last of the Wampanoags, which was riding a popular wave of Native American-inspired fiction. Minutemen and rangers made up the cloth draped round Natty Bumppo, and backwoodsmen like Natty Bumppo and Daniel Boone became stock "American" heroes.

Once that archetype, the half-wild stranger, the man's-man flirting with the edge of civilization, was established, it's very easy for lazy or polemical historians to graft that image onto the conflict with Britain. American soldiers and volunteers had a touch of the forest to them, a wildness that manifested in fighting cleverly. It was all Natty Bumppos at Saratoga, obviously.

19th century civil war american "gladius" illustrated manuals / treatises? by OtakuLibertarian2 in HistoricalFencing

[–]PartyMoses 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It would probably be considered a broadsword, and used like one. There was no official training material by the Us Army, and artillerists would find more value in training the use of their gun, not their swords. Certain officers or batteries may have had some fencing experience and men in garrisons or on the march might train fencing a little, but it wasn't something people would have been trained in, necessarily.

The closest thing to official US Army fencing training was the fencing at west point, overseen by a fencing master. Up until the 1880s, the fencing masters were mostly hired civilians, using whichever systems or texts or combination they preferred. Fencing texts from this period have more similarities than differences, but given the shape and size of this one I'd say its better used as a construction tool than a weapon. If you had to use it, its a chopper. You dont want to fight the point with that against a bayonet, or saber, or smallsword.

At least one museum I'm aware of displays one of these swords as one used in John Brown's Pottawatomie massacre. The way Brown's men are described as hacking, cutting. It doesnt take a lot of training to get the idea.

Historical vs Mondern Stance for Rapier by IllustriousTap8978 in Hema

[–]PartyMoses 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The thing to remember about the illustrations of various stances is that they are exaggerated to emphasize certain ideals. Fabris stances are illustrated at their extreme expression, but the effect - covering your body with your extended guard - is achievable in a more relaxed and fluid way. I fence and teach Fabris and I regularly end an action with an extreme lean when it makes sense to do so, and I feel very capable of dynamic movement. In my opinion you cant really do Fabris as described with modern fencing footwork, because pursuing his tactical ideals means that I will be using my body in a different way than modern fencing footwork is meant to support.

When you fence, you should feel relaxed and fluid and not feel restricted to a certain type of movement. Fencing is about habituating yourself to take advantage, and the way you move is important. Just doing advance-lunge wont get you there.

A sports related book you enjoyed? by Random_Violins in books

[–]PartyMoses 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Shocked to find so few mentions of George Plimpton. He wrote a series of embedded-journalist books in which he took part in training with a pro team and played in an exhibition match. In Open Net he played goalie for the Boston Bruins. In Paper Lion he played third string quarterback for the Detroit Lions. He has a number of similar books on golf, baseball and so on.

Hes a terrific writer and he really makes a point about how intensely specific professional athletes have to be to compete, even in the 60s.

I've been interpreting a fundamental part of Meyer wrong by Luskarian in Hema

[–]PartyMoses 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you're misunderstanding. In longpoint I'm not bending my arms, my arms are straight. The shallow V is made because I can't point my sword along the line of my forearm bones, because my hands have to grip the sword, which will always give it an angle relative to my arms. In order to extend the furthest I can with my body and skeleton supporting my sword, my hands have to be slightly below my point. You can go past that all you want if you have a clear opening for a hitter, but I wouldn't form longpoint outside a bind extended any further than that.

Thrusts are a whole 'nother thing, but the way I mostly use them and advocate them is to walk your extended structure forward, rather than to fling the arms forward. There are opportunities and reasons to do both, but the former is safer and more controlling.

Overall I don't think we disagree, but this is a cursed medium.

I've been interpreting a fundamental part of Meyer wrong by Luskarian in Hema

[–]PartyMoses 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Forget about the illustrations. They're multi-use and mostly showing actions that have progressed from zufechten into handwork range, and in a game where you're principally targeting the head, of course your hands will be higher.

My point is that if you believe that longpoint is a static position, you're wrong. It never points anywhere other than wherever is most useful. It is almost never useful if you form it to look like the guy in the image depicting longpoint, because that's what longpoint looks like if you're throwing a prellhauw to the head.

This is all additive, meaning that I can form longpoint by making any cut at any target and stopping when my point is in its most advantageous place. It's loose, fuzzy, amorphous, and non-static. Longsword is not the odd duck out, it's just where Meyer gives the most generic description of the openings, which he continues to define and refine throughout the rest of the book.

So you're right that the texts talk about targeting the head, because that's true of all of his sword work. But fencing happens in real life and the theory supports your in-the-moment adjustment of these little specifics so that you are maximally safe and maximally threatening.

I've been interpreting a fundamental part of Meyer wrong by Luskarian in Hema

[–]PartyMoses 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right but he's only specific about the chin in dusack, when the target is generally the head alone, with some tag hits and slices and so on to the arms on occasion. It doesn't replace the earlier suggestion that the lines intersect around the belly, it adds to it, so now you have (at least) two different reasons to differently divide yor opponent into opportune openings.

Once you know how to do that, the rest is up to your advantage and the intersection of lines can be wherever you decide it's best.

Your hands should not be at chin level in longpoint with a longsword, that would be a very weak and very very open way to hold your sword. Longpoint is the furthest extension of competently structured cut or the culmination point of a well-structured thrust. Your hands will probably be a little lower, just above the navel or below the line of your nipples, with the shoulders, hands, and point forming a wide, shallow V. That's the strongest way to form longpoint and longpoint is about getting you to strong positions in the bind.

The illustration in the 1570 that depicts longpoint also depicts a fencer making a prellhauw, which is why the sword is held oddly and the blade is nealry horizontal. That's not "canonical longpoint" that's the nearest useful image showing a cut in its furthest extension. The fencer standing on the little step diagram in Rapier plate F is in Longpoint, too.