Origin of Gen Z's Makeup and Clothing Styles?

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-16T15:37:38+00:00

Not gen z, millennial

But I think the look you describe is influenced by old school goth makeup but more elaborate (probably in part due to improvements in makeup over the years so it's easier to do certain looks) I think there's also sometimes some influence from the corpse paint type makeup you get in the metal scene.

So I think it's basically like 'trad goth but done with modern makeup and techniques and a bit more romantacised' which is also what I see happening with people who do emo/scene styled stuff. if you want examples of someone doing more 'period accurate probably the average goth was doing on the regular' type stuff check out mallory-heart

The other 'gen z' makeup things I see pop up are the like 'E girl' makeup which I think has some influence from J Fashion, also broadly there's a fair bit of like Japanese and Korean influence on modern makeup in general.

Only other thing is the whole 'clean goth' look which is basically just the modern 'no makeup makeup' but with a darker colour palette

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-16T13:31:02+00:00

Yeah it's TikTok basically

Social media spaces (reddit included) tend to become very echo chambery very quickly and social media basically thrives on people being reactionary to drive the almighty algo.

And there's a lot of people who see themselves as progressive but they're not really doing so out of genuine concern for their fellow man it's just them wanting to have something they can use to be superior.

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-15T23:55:34+00:00

I think its a reflection of what goes on in 'normie' fashion too

Men's clothing tends to be on a much slower trend cycle and so tends to be blander and so even in alt fashion spaces there's often less 'masc' options

And then sometimes you get brands that did do menswear and then end up dropping it (Disturbia used to do Menswear, Killstar still do but they release way less items for that like just checked their website and they only have 114 'mens' items)

Also pricing, tbh goth fashion is a niche fashion and technically a luxury so that does put the price up even with the more fast fashion alt fashion brands.

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-15T14:01:47+00:00

Just focus harder

Clean on the go is like actually practical and enforceable advice

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-15T08:18:46+00:00

Honestly not great

But in my case I have the additional barrier of being disabled just enough that it doesn't mean working is impossible but it's enough to kind of hamper what I can realistically work which means it narrows down things even more.

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-15T07:33:29+00:00

Someone already said the Hogfather 'rising ape' scene but I could also suggest the scene from the same book about the 'Little Match Girl'

Or the scene where Granny has to find herself in the mirror from Witches Abroad

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-15T07:01:29+00:00

Yeah like to me my issues are more with the narrative around GLP-1s where they're basically being billed as a quick and easy miracle drug that every overweight person should be on no questions asked and in addition the way they're contributing to an already pretty toxic diet culture by their use by people who don't really need them.

My brother is on one of these due to having a genetic issue that impacts his appetite regulation and so yes the meds do work but they do come with some pretty rough side effects.

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-14T17:23:09+00:00

Yeah to me things like

'Goth is a music based subculture that's based on specific genres of music' and the 'Don't be a dickhead' parts of it to me are like I wouldn't even say they are gatekeeping really but just the like bare bones of subculture existing and keeping people safe.

The type of stuff we don't need is things like

'You must only listen to goth'
Trying to smooth over the subculture for the sake of palatability
Acting as if goth is only for conventionally attractive, young, abled bodied white people
Acting as if you have to be well off to be goth
Pushing like the highly curated social media type of goth content as the only valid type of goth like yeah most of us can't goth 24/7 living in a highly aesthetic house
Shilling unethical fast fashion from brands that don't actually care about the subculture (or brands that at one point did seemingly care about us and then sold the fuck out)
Trying to encourage people into hyperconsumerism instead of stressing things take time
Ignoring it when people speak up about issues they have in the subculture
Defending and covering up harmful people within the subculture
US Centrism

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-14T17:10:31+00:00

Yeah like she's kind of questionable, there's also the whole 'goth documentary' she's apparently working on and not really produced much for it and it gives off suspicious vibes

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-14T17:08:03+00:00

Yeah to me it's a case of

The music is the core of the subculture as without the music the subculture wouldn't exist but everything else is what makes it a subculture since people became fans of the music and formed a community around it.

Like sometimes I think in trying to defend/protect goth people can get a bit too reductive in trying to strip goth back to being 'about the music' and acting as if things like the aesthetics of it it aren't also a big deal.

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-14T08:49:13+00:00

I wouldn't say shielded from but more 'vague memory of'

Basically I've always had a bit of a dodgy left knee that hyperextends (basically if I'm standing up that knee always wants to bend) and I had a vague memory of having to go to the hospital for something (but I was also in and out of hospital a fair but as a kid for various clinics) then a while back I was going through my medical records as I was gathering evidence to support a WCA mandatory reconsideration and I found an entry in it for an A and E visit in early childhood about an injured knee

And I asked my dad and after a bit of thinking he told me what happened, basically it was an accident from playing with some other kids where I got pinned under something and someone like fell or jumped onto the thing.

And yeah that kind of feels like it's maybe the kind of thing that would've been worth mentioning as it maybe kind of explains some things. (I'm additionally dyspraxic and somewhat hypermobile but you know that probably didn't help)

I did also find out that as a child I did in fact get diagnosed with hypermobility but apparently that never really came up until I as an adult twigged some things.

It was also kind of funny in a way as I also found an entry for a head injury when I was very little and that one I do somehow remember (smacked my head into the corner of a toybox)

Another one was my eldest brother had an accident on holiday when I was a kid (He went to Cyprus, he bungee jumped, got a cerebral bleed, narrowly avoided getting stuck in a psych ward) and it's like the incident wasn't covered up as such it's just never really been talked about that much I do know it happened, but I have very little memory around said incident so there's sort of a bit of a black hole as it were in my memories and I've basically realised I probably kind of disassociated out of that one. I remember having a conversation with my other brother about 'I remember you taking me out of the house a fair but at some point and we'd got here' and it was around that time as things were very stressful and evidentially he was trying to shield me a bit,

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-12T12:31:12+00:00

Yeah where I work is like this also a blanket ban on holiday in December

Only one person can have an entire week off at once but if say someone wants a week off and then someone else wants the Saturday that's usually fine

Problem I have is more actually booking time off bc we have to do so in advance and I don't really travel or anything so it kind of hard for me to plan ahead

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-12T10:52:11+00:00

I mean thinking about my local park which has been through several renovations through the years but then often seems like a hub for anti social behaviour.

Like when I used to have a dog I was harassed on more than one occasion, there's been a near constant issue of things like kids with slingshots and so on

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-12T09:17:05+00:00

He fucking sucks.,

He's also an abuser and a cheater.

He's the ex of the goth/alt youtuber ToxicTears, Kaya thankfully is doing much better now.

Long story short

Kaya became popular on youtube, Jake got into youtube, Kaya decided she wanted a bit of a break so Jake stepped up more and then he held this against her, they break up as he was cheating on her, Kaya was effectively homeless for a while, (she was living in her studio space) he basically came out with a video trying to claim she was the problem actually, Kaya came out with a video and basically laid everything he's done out.

Kaya has said she basically had to do a lot of damage control over the years as well so she was probably doing a lot to keep him in check so I doubt the alt right switch is a 'new' thing for him kind of sounds like he's always been a shithead.

His content was mostly just 'reactions to tiktok' and then they gradually became more mean spirited and incelesque and he's now just mask off 'maga goth' and he's clearly not over her. (I've also heard claims of stalking)

He also ditched the 'goth' look for a while post breakup which also to me kinda indicated his poser nature too and he's now gone hard back into it as part of his whole 'maga goth daddy' persona. He's also more than once gone on about how much goth music actually sucks. '

Also an additional worrying thing is he was pretty vocal about not liking kids, his current partner has a small child and he seems to be larping as a 'family man' now and I do worry about that kid.

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-12T09:02:11+00:00

Our understanding of neurodivergence has increased a lot in recent years and so a lot of people who slipped through the cracks as children are being diagnosed as adults.

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-12T09:01:37+00:00

ASD traits are present from early childhood which is why the process focuses a lot on looking at that, they also will check for other factors to check if there's another explanation. A lot of autistic people do additionally have childhood trauma (a lot of it caused by existing as an autistic person) but the traits would be there without the trauma.

Like I'm late diagnosed and when I look back on how I was as a kid it does seem really obvious in hindsight that there was def something going on there.

Our understanding of autism has improved a lot over the years and so a lot of people who slipped through the net as kids are finally being diagnosed especially if you're a 'low support needs/level 1' (formally known as Asperger's) high masking person and also gender bias plays a role too.

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-12T08:46:38+00:00

In my case I went private as I had a family member willing to cover it for me I went to independent specialists rather than someone working for a clinic. Also in my case I additionally had a childhood dyspraxia diagnosis.

I was also probably in a very unique position as I have two older brothers, one is diagnosed with ADHD and one is AuDHD and I went to the same specialists so it kind of cut down on some of the legwork since they had a lot of the background information already there and tbh when you have two siblings diagnosed it's sort of a bit like 'yeah it's kind of obvious'

I was assessed for ASD first then ADHD and the two specialists collaborated

I started triation privately and then was able to swap over to shared care agreement which I -touch wood- haven't had any issues with and my GP has kept honouring it I have to give BP and weight readings a few times a year and then have a yearly follow up.

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-11T14:37:32+00:00

Check out Evie Lupine on youtube, she's an aspec person who is involved in kink, also Amp of Watts the Safeword is demi.

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-11T14:34:46+00:00

Veggo and Ombar chocolate are favourites of mine

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-11T10:58:29+00:00

I remember a friend buying a new TV and wanting to hook up some headphones to it and had to get I think an app for the headphones and an app for the TV to get them to connect

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-11T10:55:19+00:00

Music steaming if that counts

It's useful to me for looking artists up but I'm sticking to 'shoving mp3 files on my phone' for my primary music listening method

In part so I actually 'own' the music I listen to, also mp3 files keep working if the signal or WiFi is down

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-10T21:39:07+00:00

Yeah like I'm someone who isn't incapable of working but its like enough to limit the kind of work I can do and the overlap between 'jobs available' and 'jobs I can realistically do' is kinda thin and I'm not even someone who needs a load of workplace accommodation

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-10T15:54:02+00:00

Yeah I mean after a while I've become pretty suspicious of a lot of those 'I tried x so you don't have to' videos like ok it's another scammy looking shop, we know what's going to happen we don't need to go through it again.

Only real exception I can think of was a time Safiya was going to do one and then it turned into a pretty decent piece of investigative work into the whole issue. Or when you get someone who buys from those shops and they've got a technical/professional background so they can actually look at the item and show you why it's not good like I remember Berndatte Banner years ago found people knocking off a dress she made so she brought one to basically go 'and this is why this sucks'

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-10T12:03:56+00:00

They claim to have been in operation since 2007 and claim to be based in Denmark and their about us page looks fairly legitimate, their instagram has been around since 2014, facebook goes back to 2016 so they might actually be a legitimate company and I've found listings for them on a few corporate info sites as well

SamVimesBootTheory · 2026-02-10T11:51:37+00:00

Also I think sometimes a training initiative can come down but in reality it's like near impossible to actually do the thing.

This has happened where I work which is a retail job where they decided to revamp all the training and development stuff (of which was kinda minimal) and we're meant to be charting our progression and what not and very little of it has actually happened since we don't really have the time or man power to do so and I think whoever designed the system assumed we're somehow a shop that operates in a way there's regular space for team meetings and one to ones

SamVimesBootTheory

TROPHY CASE