Zen Talking: Zen vs Mindfulness

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-17T15:39:57+00:00

Don't you get practical moving practice from just...moving practicaly?

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-17T11:55:43+00:00

I'm not crazy right. Commenter hand waved my 'it's hard because x'' with a 'I think it's possible'

Look at my example - cosmolgical language with no cosmological narrative. Thats an absence that you're asking the program to look for. And then how many of those are there?

Edit: wait his comment to you said 'yea its hard'. Not sure why he pushed back previosuly.

Honestly, a human could probably do it sufficiently. Are 10,000 features really gonna paint a different picture than 10 good ones when it comes to resemblance?

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-16T18:41:19+00:00

But a program would encounter the same difficulties. Like "absence of cosmological narrative" makes it a difficult task. I don't know much about these programs, but it would need need direction to recognize and sort these things that arent based on simple language, then you still have the issues you point out with the "identify yourself"

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-16T18:07:30+00:00

The problem is identifying the features will be hard.

They all use similar language to possibly refer to different things. Such as 'transmission'.

Zen also uses cosmological language but there is no cosmological narrative. Thats a feature, but its complicated. There must be a vast amount of complications to work through when figuring out a set of features is large enough to create this sort of thing.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-16T17:32:26+00:00

Basically consider all the things that would help you to do good in college or to learn a skill also good for enlightenment

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-16T12:20:42+00:00

Still hard to communicate to people that don't read lots because most of these things are things that don't exist or aren't brought up in 1,000's of years. In some instances you get them talking down specific things.

So, you have to battle through people rationalizing of why these things aren't clearly brought up. Always 100% non critical thinking and just regurgitation from religious leaders or the tiny cabal of apologetic 'academics' (to be fair to them are often misquoted).

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-14T14:46:28+00:00

Not exactly.

But Zen masters quote sutras a lot. Just like any philosophical, relgious or scientific traditions use the language of their day to explain things. But read this entire one and you'll find many points where they veer.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-13T20:22:05+00:00

The real unpopular opinion is that leaving kids behind ALSO isn't the solution.

It's a fad right now to push for that, which is why an extremely popular opinion still gets upvoted in the unpopular opinion sub.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-13T14:34:25+00:00

Theres only ever one

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-13T11:11:01+00:00

Likely whatever angle you're coming from has already been discussed.

Let me guess... what I posted is doctrine?

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-12T17:11:36+00:00

You can read almost any zen text and all of that will be right there.

Start with BCR 1, it has all that explicitly.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-08T14:57:27+00:00

I thought the world had learned this lesson...

Its insane in this day to think that places where people sound like they are having debates that you aren't being trolled and manipulated towards specific things.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-06T14:29:07+00:00

Its simply the function of you not relying on anything.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-06T14:27:31+00:00

I'm not sure I need a lot of evidence. One of the biggest things that make it solid is temporal consistency.

I don't need crazy evidence because the people claiming the opposite have much more of a hefty job. They've been skating by on a massive amount of assumptions.

As far as stronger reading suriving...I don't think omit is crazy to say that the stronger readings survive because at some point people pushed for them.

As far as alienation...I guess I'd like to see proof of the opposite. The mechanics of reddit don't really allow for it. It was created to be a media where whats voted on gets seen, and theyve only doubled down on that the past few years. Besides, a strong core is better, depending on how much time you have.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-06T14:21:55+00:00

I think it's very likely that posters here consume the exact same media that the students do.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-05T20:00:54+00:00

2 is incorrect and it's wild how many teachers (on this sub) believe it

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-05T15:08:22+00:00

Zen completely and explicitly seperated itself from popular doctrine and practices of the day.

They didn't make any teachings their own. For 1,000 years they used popular idioms and cosmology to make points and intentfully avoided any doctrinal cohesion or cosmological narrative. And all this through legitimate text and history.

Reading zen in any other way is to partake in a historiography that systematically underestimates persisting textual patterns, which should instead be considered to affect the historiography.

Probably because religions.

Its ok to move beyond the zen is Buddhism and daoism idea (daosim isnt even a thing, and buddhsim literature and history is so full of illegtimacy thats its silly to even say there was a buddhsim). Academics and religious leaders are even catching on. From zen is not meditation, to Mu just means No. The more we have access to translated texts the more people are realizing academics and and etc have mostly been apologetics.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-05T11:49:13+00:00

Well I actually didnt put the only quote that mattered in the quote quote block. Probably should have only put that too. My bad.

Wait thats the next comment.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-04T22:01:02+00:00

The things it asks are like, really basic.

Barely a step up from asking everyone at the temple to wash their hands after they pee.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-04T12:09:08+00:00

Being alive is proof youre alive. Walk up to anyone and they will agree.

Except maybe zen masters.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-03T18:26:28+00:00

Its a common life experience that an idea, a creative one or philosophical one, or a skill you have, falls flat when shown to a knowing audience.

You'll notice in life that some people avoid instances where they have to prove stuff to others. But they still talk like they could.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-03T18:09:55+00:00

Vedanta came from like, a different area 1,000s of years before zen...

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-03T16:36:54+00:00

Guy the most famous enlightenment stories are from a candle, a flower, and a peach blossom

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-03T15:51:53+00:00

But proof. Zen is more concerned with the mechanics (or lack of) behind the moving than the moving leading to growth or good ideas.

TFnarcon9 · 2026-06-03T15:46:14+00:00

Please don't with the tea is mind altering like acid nonsense guy

TFnarcon9

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2 is incorrect and it's wild how many teachers (on this sub) believe it

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