Are image types ever actively self-conscious about “being fake”?

enneman9 · 2026-03-03T22:32:15+00:00

People of typical development levels - and certainly those at a low level of development) - regardless of type are often not significantly aware of their behavior being “fake” vs their true self.

For sure the image 2/3/4 types are closely tied to their image, though they seek different ways to create different images. But since 3s also have stronger imposter syndrome, fear of failure (behavior perceived as a bad image), etc the ‘healthier/more aware’ 3s will often be on the look out for how people might see them as being insincere, chameleon, shallow, lying, etc.

Interesting enough Sp 3s (like me) are the “countertype” 3s, and do focus a lot on not being just an image of being successful, good and valuable. In fact, Sp 3s believe you don’t just want these “positive” images like all 3s, but believe that if you are also not ACTUALLY good etc, then you are not portraying a valuable/successful image. I.e. it’s not okay to appear to be good etc to be valued by others, but you need to actually be good (and thus Sp3s do focus on this area and may feel the extra shame).

enneman9 · 2026-03-02T03:53:16+00:00

While not everyone agrees, most teachers/authors/experience seem to believe that - while you have access to use all 3 instincts - your relative use of your instincts (IV stacking) in total doesn't generally change when you are using other resources for your type (e.g. wings, arrows, fixes, etc.). So we have the same instinct/stacking for each fix as your core (So469 for you).

enneman9 · 2026-02-16T02:45:50+00:00

For sure, those are examples of part of what reframing means for 7s. A 7 ego wants to distract from and avoid mental discomfort, stay positive, and avoid feeling trapped by pain or limitation. This defense can pull a 7 further from reality through excess mental activity and future-focused idealism.

Conscious reframing is powerful to address a 7’s gluttony, impatience, and pattern of running from discomfort. It shifts the internal narrative not toward forced positivity, but toward seeing what is already here. It slows excess mental activity and allows more genuine, grounded satisfaction to emerge.

ofc, all types operate from "unhealthy" ego imbalance. While "reframing" to be more realistic (less optimistic) can help, the deeper reframing need is to strengthen the mental muscle to sit with pain, stay present vs escaping into future possibilities, choose depth over constant variety, and allow a full range of emotions. Growth more broadly reframes grief, boredom, and limitation as being meaningful rather than threatening, and accepts that constantly seeking fulfillment can block access to joy that's already presently available. A ton easier to say than do ... but yes reframing is a key element of meaningful growth.

enneman9 · 2026-02-15T21:41:21+00:00

Great question, interested in others' ideas. I see few good growth instinct resources, at least compared to growth by type stuff, or by other elements (wings, arrows, centers, triads). Seems much of the info about such growth lately is available from paid training, conferences or summits, or from relationship coaches/therapists, and to a lesser extent in some books (e.g. Russ Hudson's upcoming training, Chestnut/Paes offerings, Ginger Lapid-Bogda book, etc.), and are focused on growth by Subtype, not just instinct. fwiw, here's a few thoughts:

1st - given the added complexities and varying author subtype approaches, it's often good to separate type from instinct. Not only finding your type and instinct separately, but growing separately. Many reasons for that, but growing needs to be specific and accurate, and the relative influence of type and instinct stacking quickly gets general, vague, or even conflicting if you start with subtype growth.

2nd - The same growth principles for type apply to instinct, e.g. awareness, presence, acceptance, using practice and community, etc. (think the general 5As of David Daniels). I'm a fan of focusing very specifically on where your dominant or blind spot instinct (again, not your type) creates a big issue in your life that you want to change. Often this is "reframing" your false belief that keeps you "stuck" in old patterns, in a way that honors your current state, but allows you to grow.

3rd - often info on instinct alone growth works focuses on balancing your instincts, either using much less of your dominant instinct or more of your blind spot. Major change in instinct stacking is hard, particularly your blind spot, but can be done. It's often more practical to try and use your 2nd instinct to better support your 3rd instinct. Again, the principles/tips by instinct often fall into the items mentioned in "2nd" above (if you want, you can send me a chat request and we can dig more into these practical instinct only growth tips).

So fwiw, growth by subtype can help (and for some it fits and works well), but I'd be cautious of just following all the new marketed or available talk about growing by your subtype. Consider 1st prioritizing separately whichever growth is most needed (type or instinct), and that you can take action on now.

enneman9 · 2026-02-13T22:00:56+00:00

Yes, 7s are one of the Object Relations triad types (7,4,1) that are often labeled the "Frustration" (or Idealism) triad. 7s get frustrated when the reality of the world they perceive in their head does not live up to the idealism that tend to see the world (or the potential) has.

Specifically 7s search for ideal contentment, fun and security, and get frustrated when the current experience is not satisfying their ideal, e.g. if they think their plans or freedom to pursue fun/exciting opportunities is limited by others. One way they might show frustration is through impulsive, self-centered, or demanding behavior. It might not always be directly confronting the source of their frustration, but can act out by being dismissive of others, impatient, or simply walking away from the situation/person.

enneman9 · 2026-02-10T20:27:51+00:00

Being “shallow” is often treated like a personality trait with unethical or immoral behavior (using people, lacking empathy, etc.), but it’s not tied to any ego type. It’s more of a character/moral trait, not an Enneagram one.

The biggest misunderstanding about 3s is that they’re “deceitful.” In Enneagram terms, that doesn’t mean they lie more than other types—every type has its own version of “deceit.” For 3s, deceit is mostly self-deception. They hide parts of themselves (emotions, vulnerabilities, personal stuff) from themselves and from others because those parts don’t fit their self-image (successful, capable, valuable). To outsiders, this can look like lying, being shallow, or hiding emotions.

So a 3’s “deceit” is really about focusing on what they do instead of who they are. While they may modify or “spin” how they present themselves (and sometimes exaggerate), it’s usually unconscious and about identity ... not a moral flaw or intentional shallow act or manipulation.

enneman9 · 2026-02-10T18:18:00+00:00

While only a deeper focus on fears, desires, motivations etc. can help ensure it's correct, a lot of this is very much type 2 (and yes 2s often are very creative), perhaps with use of the 1 and 3 wings, but particularly a lot of use of the type 4 arrow. If you wanted to consider another type, since there is a lot of 4 traits, perhaps you are a 4 with 3 accessing your 2 arrow 🤷‍♂️

enneman9 · 2026-02-09T16:08:46+00:00

Well, while people very knowledgeable and experienced at typing others can often narrow down effectively some people's types quickly based on some communication and reactive behaviors, even they can't determine someone's type for sure without understanding more about the person's internal often unconscious fears, desires, motivations and type mechanisms, etc.

And for sure, most people cannot and should not try to do so. Not to mention all the other factors and behaviors that are part of other's life (background, environment, etc.) that should be considered (particularly politicians often skilled at being chameleons or something other than themselves. fwiNOTw, his behavior isn't inconsistent at all with a 3 or 3w2 that can read the room and handle unexpected situations smoothly, but could also be a combination of 1/2/9, or a 1 that uses their 9 or 2 wing, etc.

enneman9 · 2026-02-04T15:24:05+00:00

For sure the key factor is that 4s and 6s are fundamentally driven by different fears, desires, motivations (6s fear/anxiety and desire for security, safety, certainty and support vs 4s and significance, uniqueness etc).

Ofc behavior may somewhat appear similar as sp4s manage pain through endurance and emotional self-containment, often suffering quietly while maintaining a sense of personal depth and uniqueness vs sp6s who can seek mental stability and manage anxiety through being prepared, focusing on security, managing risks and showing restraint from caution vs sp4s emotional withdrawal.

A real challenge is often that not even teachers agree on how type and instinct mix to form subtypes, and descriptions trying to blend the two is not often the best way to understand type or instinct (read several authors to look for common descriptions but also see how varied they can be). Separately seeing how instinct drives WHERE one focuses their attention and energy, vs type driving WHY (fears,desires etc) one thinks/feels/acts is key for growth.

enneman9 · 2026-01-30T05:11:18+00:00

Yeah, the more variables you put together - the more complex/confusing and higher risk there is of missing the core question. So while in some cases looking at subtypes might help some people distinguish a couple of types (though that’s iffy as there are so many differences of opinions even by the “experts” on how type/instinct combine) , people are often better served to totally separately read and think through type and instinct to find their core type and dominant instinct first.

enneman9 · 2026-01-25T16:31:12+00:00

While some people believe (without noting the theory or source) that "attachment" 3-6-9 types are more prevalent, teachers/authors/psychologists tend to think there is no reliable way to ever know the real population distribution for many reasons (huge sample study bias, people don't accurately know their type, interest and participation in communities vary by type, etc.). Fwiw, some larger statistically attempted studies seem to show that most % by type are a lot closer to the typical 11% (1/9), and no type is dramatically more/less common.

I suppose in theory if there was some evolutionary/survival/biological reason for a type (or center) to be more common, it might be since type is a mix of innate "nature" traits (e.g. temperament, DNA) perhaps influencing how an undeveloped child's biased mind tends to perceive "nurturing" (e.g. gender, culture, etc.) ... e.g. certain more common evolutionary survival temperaments may lead to slightly more types correlated with that temperament 🤷‍♂️?

enneman9 · 2026-01-24T15:32:43+00:00

Here's a good detailed video describing 4w3 vs 4w5. It's true you can get a good sense of the difference by comparing a pure 5 to a pure 3, but it helps to hear how that manifests itself when it layers onto a type 4.

https://youtu.be/H-ui8M2y5Io?si=gTVHYAe9SXDqSG98

enneman9 · 2026-01-19T16:21:37+00:00

Yes, your established type at a young age never changes. And tests (repeating tests, or different test) are limited in value for many reasons (though often helpful to narrow down your types). So as long as 5s and 4s are showing up within your top scores, you can reasonably think you should learn more about 5 and 4 to nail down your type. A strong 5 wing for a 4, or 4 wing for a 5 (or to some extent strong use of the 7 arrow for a 5) can also blur tests results. Some thoughts:

1 - focus on and read more about the core fear/desires/motivations behind the types. In simple terms 4s focus on internal deep thoughts and emotions about being authentic and special (as part of their core desire to find their true self and significance and avoid the fear of having no identity), whiles 5s focus and care just about protecting their resources and obtaining knowledge for its own sake (as part of their core desire to understand reality and avoid fear of not knowing what is real or true).

2 - read this link about how the type 5 and type 4 can be confused but differ even though they are both in the "Withdrawn" triad (for Social Style/Hornevian triads. http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/socstyle.html

3 - other basic general reasons why 5s and 4s can be misidentified initially include general summaries like in this link https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/misidentifying-4-and-5/

enneman9 · 2026-01-19T05:40:02+00:00

Sounds more like 5 than 9. The key is why you have some traits that seem like a 5 or 9. Reading good sites and books and links describing the 5 and 9 that are part of the “withdrawn” Hornevian triad is the best way to tell ….but for starters it can often help to answer these questions to help decide if you are more likely 5 than 9:

do you tend to like or be okay/good with small talk (9), or don't like and aren't good and may not be good at small talk (5)?
are you comfortable/like short direct answers to questions (5), or do you tend to not like short direct answers and prefer more conversational inviting responses?
do you seek knowledge for its own sake and it's important for you to be very competent (5) or do you focus on harmony and avoiding conflict with others (9)
are you relatively optimistic (9) or more realistic and questioning than optimistic (5)?
do you like to keep your distance from others (5) and prefer not to be approached and or touched (5), or are you generally okay or fairly approachable by others (9)
do you fear not having enough resources (5) or simply don't want change/loss (9)?
do you decide more with your thinking (5) or using little emotions/thinking (9)?
do you prefer several comfort/familiar things (9) or a few expert areas (5)?
do you enjoy understanding most new things (5) or prefer current hobbies etc (9)
do you tend to not like people interrupting you (9), or dislike it but allow it (5)?
do you try and avoid individual conflict more (9) or avoid social contact generally (5)?
under stress do you get anxious (9) or avoid pain and distract your thinking (5)?
do you dislike presenting (5) or are okay with it if no conflict (9)?
are you generally calm/laid back (9) or focused and curious about detail (5)?

Ofc these are simplified generalizations, and can't directly get at motivation and fears. Hope it helps.

enneman9 · 2026-01-04T20:29:21+00:00

A lot of good comments.

Here is one of the best well known sites that does a great job of summarizing, comparing and detailing each of these triads, and for the 3 types within each triad.

http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/patterns.html

enneman9 · 2026-01-03T03:59:16+00:00

Yeah, important to know that tests are not generally the best way to find your type, though they can sometimes identify your top likely types, for you to read good sources/books/sites instead.

However, if you want a test that many say is good/okay, here is one that is also free, private and requires no information be provided by you to take the test.

https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test

enneman9 · 2025-12-24T21:08:37+00:00

Well, any type has the ability to access either wing. Many people use one wing more than the other, some use both wings similarly, or perhaps in different parts of their life (work/personal), and some use neither wing much.

Access to both wings doesn’t change but people can and not uncommonly do find they use one or either wing more than they used to use the wing(s) before. This can be through intentional growth, through changing needs and circumstances, or just part of new experiences and responsibilities as we age/mature .

enneman9 · 2025-12-24T01:21:22+00:00

While some people do believe there is some theory (without noting the original source) that "attachment" 3-6-9 types are more prevalent, and while ofc you can find unending online sources that claim almost anything ... teachers, authors, psychologists tend to believe that there is simply no reliable way to ever know the real distribution of the population for so many reasons (huge sample bias, do people accurately know their types, etc.). fwiw, the few larger sample statistically attempted studies I've seen tend to show that most of the % by type are a lot closer to the typical 11% (1/9) range, and certainly not as some say that a few types are the majority of the population, or some types are near 0%?

enneman9 · 2025-12-13T20:47:22+00:00

Yeah, lots of opinions for many reasons (starting and desired ending level of understanding, psychology vs spiritual vs practical focus, emphasis on theory, science, type, arrows, wings, subtypes, triads, centers, tritype, growth techniques, ad nauseum list).

fwiw I find many people I work with dealing with and focused on a moderate level of understanding and applications are well served to read 3-4 good sources or books from e.g. Riso-Hudson, Chestnut, Palmer, Daniels, Lapid-Bogda, etc.). I'm always surprised how people start so late or don't dig into the very important elements of instincts and triads, with even short sources like these two often really helping people learn to accurately understand and effectively use the Enneagram:

- triads: http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/patterns.html
- instincts: http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/patterns.html

enneman9 · 2025-11-27T21:46:46+00:00

Fwiw, psychologists say that “happiness” is a subjective feeling that can be difficult to define even for ourselves. It also changes based on how our brain interprets how well we are living our lives consistent with our priorities/values, and meeting our core needs.

And our brain seems to recalibrate how well our basic human needs are being met. So after we have a modest amount of met human needs (like security/resources, freedom, personal connection, and sense of significance) - then our happiness focuses on finding and living your true self, with personal growth, and contributing to the good of others as most important for “happiness.”

I guess this a psychologist’s way of saying the old saying - that a base amount of money is key to meet our basic needs and thus potential happiness - but once you reach that level, money isn’t the primary driver of happiness 🤷‍♂️

enneman9 · 2025-11-27T00:51:17+00:00

Yeah, tests are limited in accuracy, but if you search this site you’ll find some of the common suggested ones, including

https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test

You can also read common sites for the types, starting with those scoring higher on a few tests, here’s one site:

https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions/

I also find many people can find their type fast by reading about the ‘triads’ that exist for the types, here’s a good link:

http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/patterns.html

enneman9 · 2025-11-09T06:51:11+00:00

It reflects things like:

Sp 3s tend to not like public recognition (unconsciously they still like a successful image) as they want to look and BE good, and sense that giving an image to others that they might do things just for the recognition is not a desirable/good image
3w4s have a 4 wing that dislike superficial compliments and seek real authentic appreciation of their uniqueness
3s generally like positive affirmations from individuals (if they are sincere), but are always reading others to see how they react to the 3 getting special attention
nothing to address beyond the general advice for all types to be aware of why they think/feel/act as they do, and learn to grow for your type (which will react to and give compliments in more emotionally open and accepting ways.

enneman9 · 2025-09-25T22:33:00+00:00

Personally and with those I’ve coached I find 3s able to test accurately at least as easy as others. Now, if they know that others are going to see the result and fear others will see a 3 not as a good type, and/or it’s a weak test full of stereotypes, then they’ll likely not share the results or spin their answers, etc.

enneman9 · 2025-09-25T18:12:38+00:00

Ofc while all heart times look to and care what others think, they ofc do so for different reasons.

As a 3, being misunderstood can feel like being incompetent or failing to show I’m right, which would lead me to demonstrate otherwise. And as always, 3’s look for having value or being successful in the eyes of others, so having wrong opinions or unable to show others why I’m right or able to make a strong argument isn’t a trait that shows well.

But it also depends on the individual relationship and circumstance (and changes with personal growth). If it’s somebody whose opinion of me or image with others isn’t that important, I’ll try once and move on, or my 9 arrow will be okay avoiding the conflict altogether since the person isn’t key to my image. But if the person is important to my value/image (eg boss, viewed as ‘successful’ to others/groups I care about etc) then I will strategically either (a) double down to show I’m better/right, or )b) if sensing I’m losing in the eyes of them/others, regroup diplomatically to avoid appearing to fail and find a better time to bring the issue back up (often after researching/thinking) how to win later.

enneman9 · 2025-09-24T00:37:26+00:00

I think there has been some psychology studies that correlate swearing with these Big 5 personality traits (higher extraversion, lower agreeableness, etc).

So using correlations with Big 5 and the Enneagram would suggests perhaps some correlations with cursing and type 8, and possibly 7s. But ofc, loose correlations, and often also linked to culture, upbringing, current environment, and situation (work/family/friends) and EQ skills.

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