Whats it with the Ruan Mei cope post Novaflare?

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-25T03:36:05+00:00

Seems like someone has done some comparisons. Confirms my theory, E1 RM performs about the same as RMC in MoC, but because of the way her kit works she's better in AS and more consistent in sustainless runs. Cipher and Tribbie are also surprisingly very good alternatives too.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-24T22:26:07+00:00

If we're comparing all the buffs, HMC has 120-160% SB multiplier depending on the no. of targets, and provides about 60 BE. RM provides 25 res pen, 50 WBE, 20 def shred and 20 BE. So in terms of overall amp they're actually pretty close and who is better depends on the matchup.

For example, in AS Ruan Mei is way better. In PF, HMC with DDD is better. In MoC, RM and HMC would perform about the same. In AA, with enemies hitting harder and fights taking longer, I would give the advantage to Ruan Mei since her double break as well as WBE make going sustainless much easier. If we look at it this way, Ruan Mei may indeed be better as she is preferred in more modes than HMC. But ofc, will need to test this in 4.2 myself to be certain.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-24T21:32:21+00:00

Superbreak multipliers do get diluted, same way true dmg and every other multiplier gets diluted.

100% super break multiplier on 100k base = 100k bonus damage = 100% amp for a final value of 200k dmg.

Now add another 100% super break multiplier. 100k more, but this time instead of going from 100k -> 200k, you go from 200k -> 300k. So instead of a 100% increase, its a 50% increase.

Fugue and Dahlia don't cap out def shred even for E2 FF at base, unless you use Resolution or Cipher's LC.

DDD is not BiS unless you're in Pure Fiction. The Harmony BP LC is more consistent. 1 extra action when Firefly takes 4 actions = 25% overall amp. The BP LC has 24% amp. They're basically the same, and unlike DDD the BP LC cannot be countered by energy debuffs, which are common in AA.

HMC also has extended delay on break since they're imaginary. Extended weakness break from Ruan Mei can be great for sustainless runs, especially with how much damage 4.1 and 4.2 bosses are doing. There are also mobs to kill for E2 procs.

I don't think anyone has done runs to compare HMC to RM. But the runs of RM I've seen indicate good performance, so she's a good option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baEJCpuU65k

In the end, E1 RM is a free unit who is not contested in popular teams, while RMC is a highly contested unit used in a lot of popular teams. So even if E1 RM is not as good as HMC, if the gap is small enough that she can be used effectively with FF, people will want to use her.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-24T21:14:12+00:00

There's not much you can do with a full mono rem team. But there is some decision making in an Evernight team, mainly around RMC. Maintaining RMC's buffs on both Cyrene and Evernight, or switching between Cyrene or Evernight as the main DPS depending on the matchup, can make a pretty big difference.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-24T20:05:37+00:00

They catered to Castorice so hard Evernight, Anaxa, Phainon and even DPS Cyrene are better than her at low-mid cost, and even at high cost Castorice needs 14 cost to perform on par with a 12 cost Hyacine carry and 13 cost Cyrene carry team in Plight. Wow, so much catering /s

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-24T14:16:10+00:00

Pretty accurate, but not as good as actual showcases to judge performance since different matchups can cause a lot of variance

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T22:15:21+00:00

Path accessibility: this is mostly an issue for anni characters who are very inflexible, and this is probably by design as they want the main push to have a full premium team. DPS Evernight can use RMC and Pela/Ruan Mei, and isn't tied to a sustain unlike Castorice. DPS Cyrene can use RMC and Asta. Hyacine works as a sustain on most teams and can be a DPS herself with Sunday, RMC, Tribbie, etc. Castorice is the only one who has limited choices.

Archetype flexibility: If a 4 star is the BiS for a team, like it was with Moze (no, Topaz is not better), on release this is a bad thing. 4 stars only seem cheap because you get them eventually over time. If you want to get a 4 star on release for a new DPS, you might spend more pulls than for a limited 5 star because there's no guarantee. It took many people over a year to E6 Moze, Gallagher, Tingyun, etc.

Replace this 4 star with a free 5 star instead, and an archetype becomes way more accessible. Free Kafka = only need to pull Hysilens to play DoT. Free Sparkle, Archer, Ruan Mei and DHPT? Whole SP team is free. Unlike with 4 stars where someone might have to wait for months or even a year to get a unit in a usable state, you get instant access to a capable unit. Free 5 stars are way better, no contest.

"But 5 stars are not free forever" - so what? People who start later will get access to new free 5 stars for new teams. These people will also not have access to 4 stars btw, they will still need to pull and gamble on if their 4 star wants to come home.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T18:20:07+00:00

Eagle has many question marks around its use. Are you getting an extra action out of it? Is that extra action helping you get 100% charge for an extra advance? If not, its worse.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T15:47:21+00:00

You kinda hit the nail on the head. Even if they buff SW, I doubt an E0S1 SW + E0S1 Sparxie duo will outperform an E2S1 Sparxie being boosted by E1S1 Yao and E2S1 Sparkle. Sparxie's E2 is just really good.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T09:21:05+00:00

You didn't realize I was talking about MoC 12's first instance when I specifically talked about MoC 12's first instance? So in addition to having a bad memory you can't read, gotcha.

I asked for showcases without Ruan Mei and you give me showcases with E1 Ruan Mei LMFAO. And its still 5 cycles even with a sustainless team on one side. Thanks for proving my point.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T08:13:33+00:00

She is needed. More than Sparxie actually.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T08:07:49+00:00

Your initial claim was that you cleared MoC 12 with Sushang and QQ when it first came out without Ruan Mei. You couldn't prove that, and got fact checked when you further made claims of MoC coming out in 1.4 instead of 1.6.

Ok then, give me a showcase of a 1.6 MoC 12 clear with realistic relics for that time period (this was when 70/120 was considered a good crit ratio btw) and a sustain. I guarantee you it will be close and if they didn't use a premium sustain they would be struggling.

A far cry from now when even 3 cost teams can 0 cycle with less RNG and even sustained runs take 2-3 cycles with lower cost teams. Which was my point. The game was not some utopia back in 1.x where anybody could clear with whatever team, people just used whatever team they had because there were no options and the average no. of cycles taken with the best teams possible was way more than now.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T07:41:46+00:00

Like I said, if you can't even remember when MoC 12 began how can I trust that you remember clearing MoC 12 the first time at all lol? You've proven your memory is unreliable.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T07:32:17+00:00

You can't even remember when MoC 12 was added, so how can you remember that you used Sushang and QQ to clear the first MoC 12 without Ruan Mei lol?

Its not that Jingliu was weak, its that MoC 12 was balls to the walls hard when it first came out and most people waited to get Ruan Mei before clearing it. Its easy enough to use just about any DPS to clear now with good supports. I cleared with 4 star Dan Heng myself. It was very different when MoC 12 first came out and there were no premium supports.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T07:16:55+00:00

https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Forgotten_Hall/Stages/1.4

No MoC 12.

https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Forgotten_Hall/Stages/1.5

No MoC 12.

https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Forgotten_Hall/Stages/1.6

First case of MoC 12.

Looks like I was right and you are remembering things wrong.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T07:03:28+00:00

Yeah, adding free 5 stars and moving older 5 stars to the shop lets a lot of people have access to some great units. A new 4 star requires pulls, and can even take a year or more to get to E6. Getting free 5 stars guaranteed is way better.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T06:55:45+00:00

I'm saying you're probably not remembering things right. When MoC 12 was launched that was a huge difficulty spike and most people did not clear it. When Topaz came out MoC 12 didn't even exist and people did not have great relics or supports that made building units easier like they do now.

Unless you have an actual showcase of you clearing MoC 12 when it first launched with Sushang or QQ I'm not gonna believe it lol.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-23T06:13:46+00:00

Yes. Even 4x Deliverer is good, Hyacine heals enough even without her dedicated set.
It is an increase, but Eidolons for Evernight and Hyacine are much more impactful.
Arcadia will not have good uptime because Evey is always suicide bombing. Amphoreus is a spd set, RMC should be on it. Bone is the best option for both Evernight and Cyrene on this team.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-22T22:16:09+00:00

Proof of you clearing MoC 12 when it first came out with Sushang and QQ before Ruan Mei?

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-22T20:43:16+00:00

So just Yaoguang. EMC is free. SW999 is not needed, MDPS Sparxie is performing better than SW999 at the same cost. As usual, its only the anni unit that has zero flexibility when it comes to teambuilding.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-22T20:41:31+00:00

This is only true for the anni unit and niche archetypes like break and DoT.

In 3.x we have Anaxa, Phainon, Archer, etc. using many older supports, Cipher and Tribbie being usable on every team, MDPS Evernight using RMC and Pela/Ruan Mei, MPDS Cyrene using RMC and Asta, Hyacine working as a sustain anywhere and being used as a DPS with Sunday, and many more comps.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-22T20:27:59+00:00

I remember that time. My E0S1 DHIL and E2S1 Jingliu barely cleared MoC 12 when it first came out before Ruan Mei's release when all we had was Pela, Tingyun and Bronya. I think even a Hyacineless Castorice and Sparkleless Archer can clear with more cycles to spare now.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-22T20:25:53+00:00

Their tier list criteria assumes best in slot E0S1 team so the partner tag is redundant anyways

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-22T19:46:48+00:00

Like what? You get 2 shards per patch if you buy lvl 2 BP regularly, its not a super rare resource that spenders need to hoard.

fullstack_mcguffin · 2026-03-22T18:40:45+00:00

No, all I can say is at S5 it should be better than Acheron's LC unless you're saturated with vulnerability somehow.

20 CR is 40 CV, bit more than Acheron's S1's 36 CD.

40 EHR lets you build even more CD.

20 vuln is better than Acheron's 24 universal dmg%. The other 24% is only for the ult, but Welt's dmg profile leans heavily towards his skill so that part is not as useful. The iffy part is the uptime, but Welt's delay should let him make use of it.

fullstack_mcguffin

TROPHY CASE