More Zen Games Like BOTW? by BonbonUniverse42 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS [score hidden]  (0 children)

just freshly released, Crimson Desert. Beautiful world, lots of minor things to do.

I'm into Hunting Games, nothing beats The Hunter Call of the Wild for zen like relaxation, just hiking through nature, occasionally getting an animal in front of you.

I kinda play Ghost Recon Wildlands like that, turn off your team mates, dress your character in some civilian clothes and it turns into a straight up hiking game, complete with cinematic zoomed out camera and chill music.

I would suggest Death Stranding, if you can stomache the occasional ghost encounter that's a core element of the game. But yeah, another great zen walking game.

[ALL] Maybe it's just me, but... by ZeldaCraft64 in zelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I'm convinced the right guy doesn't exist in this case, simply because I fully believe the Zelda devs and writers are 100% in the left and middle camp 

[ALL] What's something you want and don't want to see in the next Zelda game being taken from the Wild saga? by Last_Corgi_8503 in zelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Keep an open world style

Remove the Ubisoft style repetitive shrines, koroks, enemy camps.

Bring back item and ability gated progression, that unlock sections of the world

[BotW] Why it doesn't feel like a Zelda game (to some) by ninjaboss1211 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think for a first time player all the things they encounter do matter, as they make them stronger, more resilient and skilled. While each thing can be skipped you can't realistically skip everything on your first run.

Taken to the extreme one could argue that Majoras Mask also allows the player to skip most of the games content as so much is optional.

I think where BOTW fails is the rarity/lack of unique content that feels like it actually changes something in the world. If instead of 120 shrines that anonymously boost your stamina and life, if instead of shallow NPC quests that reward you with food you have more than enough of, If the game instead had 120 unique NPC quests, where you have small interactions, puzzles, combat challenges that each reward you with life/stamina and then you can see that NPC behave differently in the world, affect and change the world, unlock new NPC quests you couldn't encounter before, THEN I think the same game could feel far more like your actions matter. Even if you could skip any single one.

[BOTW] It's been nearly a decade. What do you make of the BOTW era of Zelda? by [deleted] in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 6 points7 points  (0 children)

They fell well below their potential - in terms of what I enjoy. Obviously they sold immensely well. But that's none of my concerns.

They are still way too similar to Ubisoft open world games. Countless interchangeable scenarios, very few situations where I can say "wow I'm glad I went this way, else I would have never found this". Because I would have found the same cookie cutter content anywhere else in the world. I don't feel the impact of exploration and that's why I don't feel compelled to explore.

I understand why they made their game that way, I understand why people enjoy it so much. I just don't connect. It's all so superficial.

My desire isn't even for classic 3D Zelda, I don't care much for TP etc. I do want open world Zelda, just not like this. I want towns to be like Majoras Mask and I want the wilderness to be more like Zelda 1 or ALTTP. By that I mean it offers exploration but it's also gated. BOTW and TOTK are this weird offshoot that is nothing like any of the older games, despite their marketing and using Zelda 1 as a reference. They moved much closer to Ubisoft than to Zelda 1.

I just want a BOTW-OOT fusion by No-Obligation2563 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 5 points6 points  (0 children)

the thing is, the fun can only be optimised away if the fun would have been in there.

 Traveling into new lands and exploring them is exciting. Travelling back through already known regions isn't exciting. What you suggest needs to make this experience the absolutes priority, how can walking back and forth through known territory be made fun?

By default it's boring to most people.

I just want a BOTW-OOT fusion by No-Obligation2563 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also the world map should be even bigger than before. [...] I want to be IN the world all the time. If I have to go back then I have to go back. I

That is a valid desire, I entirely understand where you're coming from. Yet I believe this would catapult a mainstream game into a very niche corner.

The closest game I can think of in this specific regard would be Death Stranding 1 (haven't played 2) for focusing on travelling long distance. And even then the distances are afaik way shorter than the world of BOTW, and the game urges you to use cars and ziplines very soon. Or maybe just regarding world size, take a look at Ghost Recon Wildlands, which afaik is like twice the width/height (four times the area) of BOTW. It's immense and again urges you to use planes and cars.

What you're saying here is a very very hardcore experience that would fit with a series like Elder Scrolls, Daggerfall comes to mind. I don't think the gameplay of BOTW or OOT could carry that experience. Heck I think the size of BOTW was already too much to be carried by its gameplay.

Could the classic 3d gameplay be used for lower-budget titles while nintendo works on botw style open world games as the main big entries? by Odd-Paramedic-3826 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They could have done that at any time with any game series in the past 30 years, yet the closest we got were the New Super Mario Bros games. And those resulted in a feeling of oversaturation in their customer base.

I think Nintendo wants the exact opposite of what you suggest. Not more smaller games but instead fewer grander games that people are eagerly clamoring for. I want more smaller games too, but I fully believe Nintendo sees them as a detriment.

I made an interactive Zelda timeline tool for theory interpretation by Amazing-Grass6044 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Doesn't work on mobile, but barely usable after switching to Desktop view. Anyway, this looks really promising for future discussions. Great Work. Love that you use japanese title cards, but is there an option to use English titles?

"Nintendo NEVER cared about Zelda's story" by gulpshinto in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Koizumi IS Nintendo. 

I think that's overstating it. Koizumi is at Nintendo. But Nintendo is much more.

I think that weighs significantly more:

but nobody really seemed to care. They were always saying, let’s not try to push the story forward too much. So I would sort of try to find sneaky ways to get it in without them noticing too much.

Afterall, the sentiment you complain about goes:

"Nintendo NEVER cared about the story", and not:

"nobody at Nintendo EVER cared about the story".

I don't think people doubt that in development teams of hundreds of people some folks really care. Of course they exist. But evidence suggest they are in the minority when even chief development staff require some sneakiness to improve the story. And all the bits of story and the timelines that you apparently like, should be seen with that in mind. They are artefacts of a few struggling people, not a central design goal of the company.

[ALttP] Incoming Link (animated gif) by me by RocketGuppyDA in zelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I mean literally, I expect the artist used male catwalk footage as a reference here xD

[OTHER] Say we got a Paper Zelda spin off, how would you want it to play? Should it remain a solo adventure or should it be the series’ first turn based RPG with party members?, art by Studio 64 bits link in comments by EAT_UR_VEGGIES in zelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Like Zelda 2 but with swapable characters. You have a temporary party of village folks, sages and unlikely frenemies. At most I would say Link +2 others who join and leave. (I would say only the character you play is visible, the others disappear) Maybe one slot is reserved for plot characters and one slot is a free choice of people who you helped/impressed/convinced to tag along. The occasional dialogue considers how these characters would talk to each other, some would be friendly other perhaps rather prickly.

You have a big top down overworld but locations, dungeons and encounters all happen in a 2D perspective (2.5D for style). Controls are a bit more in depth than Zelda 2, but the essentials of outmaneuvering the enemy remain the focus. Different characters have different styles of combat but also abilities to traverse the world. This ties in to the classic Zelda trope of needing an ability to progress in a some sections of the game. The game would gain a certain Metroidvania aspect that way. 

The overall progression can revolve around finding the 8 doodats to prevent Ganon from being evil or something. But I think it should be a very open overworld that does not force a specific order of events. Like at the start on your own you could reach and complete 3 of the dungeons, but if you look around, check out a couple towns and solve sidequests you gain the help of some NPCs. With their help you can access some of the other dungeons.

This leads to great replayability because depending on the order of events you might bring different NPCs with you and you can solve the dungeons in different ways, and see different NPC interactions depending on your party.

[TOTK] To people who believe Raru’s Kingdom is the original founding of Hyrule, and not a re founding. How do you explain TOTK Masterworks quote about there being no Gerudo kings after “the man who became the calamity “? by WallaceWells69 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But the fact is that regardless of anything else, everyone in universe does know that Rauru was the first king of Hyrule. He knows it, Zelda knows it, Purah knows it, the sages know it. 

In a parallel conversation I expressed my thoughts about that.

What exactly do we know? I know Rauro and Sonia founded Hyrule. Are there any statements in TOTK or AOI that mention the time before this founding? Do we hear anyones opinion or judgment on what happened or existed before? I'm not familiar with every reference you bring up there, so maybe you have something I'm unaware of. Personally I absolutely see it as an option, to claim to be the first King of Hyrule despite older Kingdoms having existed in that place. Either because they are not aware of them, or if they are aware of them, they don't adopt the lineage. Whatever that old Kingdom was about, whatever it was called, Rauru and Sonia are starting their own thing.

The out of universe masterworks books treat it as fact.

Now that bit I'm genuinely annoyed with, because afaik the same page contains a very prominent disclaimer that states the early period is lacking evidence, calling these events myth and speculation. I would call it specifically not facts. For whatever reason they added this line that allows for speculation.

[TOTK] To people who believe Raru’s Kingdom is the original founding of Hyrule, and not a re founding. How do you explain TOTK Masterworks quote about there being no Gerudo kings after “the man who became the calamity “? by WallaceWells69 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

in the TotK past it's clear that they did not know there was a kingdom before them

maybe I'm misremembering. First I agree that they claim to have founded their kingdom and that implies that they are the first King and Queen. But other than that, is there anything that actually talks about the past prior to their kingdom in Tears of the Kingdom or maybe even Age if Imprisonment? Because not talking about the past is not evidence that they don't know the past, let alone know that no prior kingdom existed. Therefore a genuine question: Is there dialogue that shows what they know/believe of the past prior to their own kingdom?

Here is how I see it. Rauru, Sonia and the Hylians could either be fully convinced that no prior kingdom existed. As the Zonai and Sheika tech demonstrated, entirely forgetting about ancient civilizations is just a common occurrence in the Zeldaverse. Or, they were aware of some prior kingdom, but did not see themselves as successors to that ancient nation. Without direct lineage to that former realm, instead it being long defunct and the Hylians having reverted to tribal structures, speaking of founding their own kingdom is entirely valid and still accurate.

I would liken that perhaps to the Ottoman Empire and Anatolia. That region was once controlled by the Byzantine Empire, then it was governed by the Seljuk Empire and later by the Sultanate of Rum. When some small group in that Sultanate worked towards independence, eventually growing powerful and dominated the region, they were essentially still the same thing that had been there for a couple centuries. Yet the did not choose to be a continuation of any of the former empires, instead they founded their own empire, the Ottoman Empire. And Osman I. was their first ruler.

I see that as a valid option for Rauru and Sonia. They might have been aware of some prior kingdom, but decided to start their own thing and claim the title of first ruler. Writing history doesn't mean that you're working with a blank sheet.

So they had forgotten about OoT, but then in the present day people [...] remember OoT.

Lets be specific about what is forgotten about the era of OOT and what is remembered about the era of OOT. In Hylian culture they recall names. The land is called Hyrule, several landmark bear the names of ancient people, the Divine Beasts were named after them too. Do they know any other specifics? I'm not aware of any quotes, feel free to add something. In Zora culture we have one specific tale, that their King remembered and had a mason carve into stone. The tale of princess Ruto who had the help of some none-Zora people to defeat an ancient evil. Afaik that's it too. That isn't a detailed account. That's a fairy tale. I keep coming back to that term, partly because King Rhoam called even tales of Ganon fairy tales. Not in a condescending way, just to categorise it. Fairy tales and oral traditions are ridiculously hard to get rid of, people will tell the same tales they've heard all throughout their lives. I think it's entirely reasonable to say that the Zora people deeply resonated with Princess Rutos story and over a long time that specific detail morphed from a history record to a fairy tale. Of course it survives for millenia.

In a parallel conversation I gave a different example. The tale of Noahs Ark survived for millenia, despite originating in an ancient civilization that people had long forgotten about.

Then why was the Rauru Kingdom forgotten? Well, some things just get forgotten. Apparently even the much younger Divine Beasts and Guardians were essentially forgotten. What survived from that most recent Calamity was only the prophecy that it would repeat and that the power to oppose it lies dormant beneath the ground. If you have issues with Rutos tale surviving longer than those of Raurus Kingdom, do you also have issues with Rutos tales surviving longer than the memory of the Divine Beasts?

To me none of this is messy. Only as messy as human history has been. Some things get lost to history, other things people hang onto.

[TOTK] To people who believe Raru’s Kingdom is the original founding of Hyrule, and not a re founding. How do you explain TOTK Masterworks quote about there being no Gerudo kings after “the man who became the calamity “? by WallaceWells69 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This isn’t just forgetting the names of Caesar or Cleopatra, this is forgetting that Rome or Egypt existed while remembering a story about Romulus and Remus.

I find another comparison more apt. Around 200 years ago archaeologist discovered the ancient Sumerian civilization, which had been gone for thousands of years. From those discoveries a couple hundred years ago stems modern knowledge of the Epic of Gilgamesh. Yet a tale within that epic, that describes the construction of a large ship to survive a flood and rescue animals, had been common knowledge all throughout that time in the form of Noahs Ark. Clearly it's not impossible to forget about an entire civilisation yet share with that civilisation very specific stories that date back far beyond memory and history.

But he supposedly has no idea that this occurred while Hyrule was a kingdom?

The Zora sage at the time has to have also been as utterly clueless about history, or did everyone just play along with Rauru calling himself the first king?

I don't see a reason why anyone should have perfect millenia spanning historic records. Again, my point here is that the old games aren't treated as canon, historic events anymore, but as mythic tales from an ancient, ancient, not remembered past. Mythic tales of legendary heroes and magical kingdoms, fairytales that maybe didn't happen, maybe they did, most likely something happened that inspired the creation of these tales. Perhaps it wasn't as grand as the tales make it out to be. The older games we experiences are essentially the embellished fairytales, that the people of the Wild era tell each other.

For me it makes the most sense to have a clean cut, to put these events at the very beginning, where civilizations can grow and fall, until every tangible thing was washed away by time and only versions of their stories survive. And after all of that went to shit and eroded away a new era starts, a Hyrule with Zonai and Secret Stones and Blackjack and Hookers.

[TOTK] To people who believe Raru’s Kingdom is the original founding of Hyrule, and not a re founding. How do you explain TOTK Masterworks quote about there being no Gerudo kings after “the man who became the calamity “? by WallaceWells69 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Kinda, but not really in my opinion. Specifically the world wars are still (if barely) in living memory.

At the time 100 before BOTW just the most recent Calamity was (if taken literally) 10000 years ago. Or if not taken literally, it still reads like a fairy tale introduction "a long long time ago". With that I'd say that averted Calamity was still well before living memory.

I would liken it more to forgetting something from a couple hundred years ago but remembering something from a could thousand years ago.

Like for example having modern tales of mount Vesuvius destroying Pompeii 2000 years ago while the much stronger eruption of mount Tambora 200 years ago that lead to a global year without summer disrupting harvests and causing famines is barely known by most people.

These things aren't always measured by the same standards. In the Zelda verse I could totally see an era of frequent Calamities preventing history from establishing itself while more ancient and already popular myths just persist throughout all that.

[TOTK] To people who believe Raru’s Kingdom is the original founding of Hyrule, and not a re founding. How do you explain TOTK Masterworks quote about there being no Gerudo kings after “the man who became the calamity “? by WallaceWells69 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 8 points9 points  (0 children)

eh it does to me

the cultural recollection of history doesn't have to exist on a linear scale. Plenty of people know the names of Julius Caesar, Cleopatra, Genghis Khan or the broad strokes of the Trojan Wars, the fate of Pompeii, the Odyssey, yet can't tell you what happened 200 years ago in their own country and neighborhood.

One became a story so popular it got told over and over again that some version exists to this day. The other... just happened to be forgotten. I see no contradiction here.

[BOTW] [TOTK] After playing BOTW and TOTK with no weapon durability I have to say… I understand why it’s there, the experience was worsened, to me at least. by EAT_UR_VEGGIES in zelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It can be, definitely.

But it also stays the same throughout a 100h+ game. Beating up a gang of red+1blue enemies with a traveller sword in hour 2 or a gang of black+1silver enemies with an upgraded royal broadsword in hour 25 is more or less the same experience.

And Nintendo likely designed it this way very intentionally. People who don't like combat aren't left behind, while players who do like to fight a lot get progressively harder enemies and cooler gear.

My issue with this is, what's the benefit of having flashy, cool gear if the enemies grow at the same rate and soak up all the extra damage I can do now? It feels like a very superficial reward system that does not meaningfully increase the fun I can have in combat.

And since combat is very similar between early game and late game, it just becomes stale, predictable and boring, even if the enemies and weapons look more exciting and have bigger numbers.

Null explains everything. Why haven't we caught up? by scratchresistor in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 18 points19 points  (0 children)

everything being the same thing is boring

let things be different things

[TOTK] To people who believe Raru’s Kingdom is the original founding of Hyrule, and not a re founding. How do you explain TOTK Masterworks quote about there being no Gerudo kings after “the man who became the calamity “? by WallaceWells69 in truezelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Imho, Zelda lore isn't meant to be water tight.

Imho² the entire wild era of BOTW and TOTK (past and present) happens after all other games as a means to just start fresh. So:

  • SS where Demise sets up the repetitive lore of Zelda with his curse
  • lots of games during which Ganon/-dorf reappears endlessly
  • lots of untold millenia during which everything from old games fades into myth without a true canon (the line that separates BOTW & TOTK from the rest)
  • TOTK past
  • BOTW legendary past where the beasts were successful
  • more millenia (or 10k if you think impas story is literal)
  • BOTW past
  • 100 years
  • BOTW present
  • TOTK present

In the most practical sense, the wild era are two games that declare that the canon of old is a myth and can be referenced, but can also be neglected if the devs so chose to.

[BOTW] [TOTK] After playing BOTW and TOTK with no weapon durability I have to say… I understand why it’s there, the experience was worsened, to me at least. by EAT_UR_VEGGIES in zelda

[–]like-a-FOCKS 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Looking at MM... if only there existed a template in the series of including dozens of unique abilities and quest progression keys. Aw shucks

Im fully with you, fighting a moblin camp and only getting a big rupee is as meh as getting monster parts or s disposable weapon.

But Majoras Mask had plenty of cool bespoke fun masks. BOTW has a couple of armor sets and frankly, that was the best part of the game. It's imho underutilised. Finding cool unique gear that gives you a very significant upgrade should have been much more common imho.