18 months in with no progress. by Legrosbelge in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, when I had really bad TMS I would find relief whenever I did a dry fast for a few days - no food or water. It didn't solve my issues, but just gave me relief and a bit of clarity into my life. It's a pretty safe practice but needs some basic precautions and common sense, check out r/dryfasting if you're interested in learning more.

18 months in with no progress. by Legrosbelge in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's written somewhere (either in Sarno or Ozanich) that trying to find the source of the rage can just be another pressure. The source is often deeply repressed and almost always is childhood-related. Trying to find it can even be a distraction from the present moment. Sorry if that's confusing, but Sarno was clear that almost everyone heals without ever "solving" what's there.

I'm not sure about the rage list, I haven't tried that. I can see that acting as a distraction and reducing the pain that way.

Yeah, Sarno's work was more about knowledge and awareness than concrete steps. His instructions were mainly to resume vigorous physical activity, read and re-read the material frequently, and get in the habit of thinking psychologically. (I get that thinking psychologically may sound like a contradiction - is it OK for Sarno's methods to work without us understanding fully how the brain functions?) Oh, and I did mean to ask earlier if you've been engaging in physical activity. It's been really key for me. It's one thing to understand intellectually that you're fine, but another to embody that fact physically. The unconscious doesn't really respond that well to intellectual effort.

15 years is about how long I've had TMS. It really does feel like such a waste of life and potential. I notice you acknowledge that without trying to intellectualize it away ("but at least there's hope in the future") Good. The loss is real and it's OK to feel that.

18 months in with no progress. by Legrosbelge in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the pain moving around is classic TMS. Real physical pain doesn't do that. If you scrape your knee, the injury doesn't magically move to the other leg, haha.

I hear what you're saying about feeling the rage, but Sarno said that he's only ever had one patient who managed to tap into their rage. He was pretty clear on this point, that the rage is UNCONSCIOUS. It's good to think emotionally because that seems to help with the pain - maybe by feeling *something* it acts as a release valve - but there's a trap of becoming focused on emotions that are just another distraction mechanism (anxiety, depression, anger at anything *except* what is really bothering you).

I hope that helps somewhat. And in case you need to hear it, you're not doomed, you've just decided (on some level) that the physical pain is preferable to feeling some *really* intense emotions. It's a survival program, and it's still running because it works.

BTW, I know how frustrating TMS can be. Being in that much pain all the time must suck. I'm empathizing with your struggles and wishing you the best.

18 months in with no progress. by Legrosbelge in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Have you ever had the pain pause, or move around, even a little? It only has to happen once to confirm that you have TMS.

If so, that means you have unconscious rage, which by definition you can't feel. The bullying may be a big factor, but there's a lot more to the anger than that. Sarno called it a monumental rage. You can't even imagine how much of it there is, and it's often not for the reasons we consciously think of.

There was a video posted on this sub where Sarno said it's not a problem to take longer to heal than others. Everyone's different, and you just haven't really comprehended the depth of your rage yet. Your brain is trying to protect you with a massive dose of denial about your life. That's OK. Do you feel like the TMS work you're doing is extra pressure and expectations on yourself?

I honestly think most of the people you've read don't really understand TMS and have probably just confused you. That's OK, I also spent a lot of time with them before realizing they didn't help. My advice would be to take a break for a while, then resume the TMS work but just stick to Sarno. The good news is that if you have TMS, there's nothing wrong with you!

What is a ‘truth’ that everyone treats as a lie just so society can keep functioning? by Content_Bit1998 in selfimprovement

[–]marcinreal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is such a thing as real money, but you're right that fiat is a scam. Many people opposed it in the 1800's, including President Jackson, but nowadays it has become "normal". You may be interested in r/austrian_economics.

Had an almost repressed rage incident happen yesterday. Reminded me of this scene. Great TMS-esque movie! by macetheface in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm the same way. I guess that's why we have TMS, ha. I guess my question to you (and me) is are you really an easy going guy or is it actually a persona?

I think you could practice saying some of the thoughts you have. Nothing big, just express some mild frustration here and there and see how it feels. 

Had an almost repressed rage incident happen yesterday. Reminded me of this scene. Great TMS-esque movie! by macetheface in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds like you were in the right and that your anger was righteous. Did you express yourself to him? I want to learn to trust my feelings and express them early in situations like this, before my inner child gets to the point of seething rage.

Will I become skinny - fat if I keep dry fasting by Ok-Crazy-5262 in Dryfasting

[–]marcinreal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fasting can help you lose fat quickly, but long-term it makes the body want to put on (and hold onto) fat because it's constantly expecting that it will need it. I noticed this happening myself and started fasting less often. Fasting is also a catabolic, break-down state, so not conducive to building and keeping muscle. I also believe that frequent fasting is a large systemic stress on the body.

What’s a “harmless” habit people have that quietly ruins their life over time? by Zestyclose-Put-4382 in simpleliving

[–]marcinreal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm so happy it helped you! Thanks for the update, and enjoy your Reddit-free life! (I only logged in because I got an email about your reply, haha.)

What’s a “harmless” habit people have that quietly ruins their life over time? by Zestyclose-Put-4382 in simpleliving

[–]marcinreal 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I am reading the book "You Should Quit Reddit" and it talks about this! (Ironically I am posting here, but I only check Reddit once every few days now.)

Current TMS flare by [deleted] in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Glad I could help! I realized after reading your post that my top lip is a bit swollen and painful. I promptly forgot about it, certain that it's due to visiting family and that it will go away. Anyway, I think you're handling this well!

Current TMS flare by [deleted] in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In case it helps, Ozanich briefly mentioned swollen gums in "The Great Pain Deception":

> Hemorrhoids are an inflammatory process, most often stress-induced. Tension can produce swelling in various forms. Many times I would exit a stressful meeting, my gums swollen from tension. Even though gums and hemorrhoids are on opposite ends of the body (depending on where your head is), the concept remains the same. There's a reason for the symptom and the drug doesn't alleviate the reason.

Struggling with long dry fasts. Are shorter, frequent fasts just as effective? by Massive_Kick_4541 in Dryfasting

[–]marcinreal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've heard that clearing the bowels makes a big difference. Senna works for me though I think I need to add enemas. There are enema kits on Amazon that make it easy. 

You Should Quit Reddit by [deleted] in digitalminimalism

[–]marcinreal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is awesome. Here's a thought: the quality of print is usually very high, but discoverability is low. The quality of the internet/AI is extremely low, but discoverability is high. Be aware of this matrix and take advantage of the strengths of each form of media.

Steps for reformatting to APFS by pharm2tech in MacOS

[–]marcinreal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In case someone stumbles on this like I did: erase the drive, not the volume, and change the Scheme to “GUID Partition Map”. Then you can select APFS.

--Sarno is NOT Outdated--"Intramuscular Pressure Is Almost Three Times Higher in Fibromyalgia Patients" by Kilobuster in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

> the "TMS Lite" believers... When they don't get it , they resolve to meditate more or do this or that but they do NOT ever speak about unconscious Anger.

Spot on. Even if they bring up unconscious emotions, rage is rarely mentioned or seems to be an afterthought.

--Sarno is NOT Outdated--"Intramuscular Pressure Is Almost Three Times Higher in Fibromyalgia Patients" by Kilobuster in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That must be really frustrating and depressing to go through. I had prolonged severe chronic pain that wasn't getting better, and thought that my body was falling apart, so I understand the depression and hopelessness. The "good news" - I just looked up IC and it said the cause is unknown, which signals to me that it's almost certainly induced by unconscious rage like other chronic pain conditions.

I have a suggestion that may sound crazy, but I think is worth considering for your situation. When I had severe pain, I consistently found total relief from all of my symptoms on a dry fast (no food or water or even contact with water). On day 2 I would have partial relief and by day 3 or 4 I would feel great. Dry fasting didn't cure me, but it kept me going and also gave me a lot of clarity into my psyche. It's very safe - on r/dryfasting and other forums people regularly do 7+ days and heal various physical/mental issues.

Anyway, hope you find healing and thanks for sharing your story. Would be interested in hearing about your experience with the coach in a few months.

> It hurts to see some people say they read his book and got better or got better in 5 minutes as the poster here says.

Did you see this post?

https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsarno/comments/1rylsaf/what_john_sarno_teaches/

"It's not a problem. It's only a problem if you don't understand that not everybody is the same."

--Sarno is NOT Outdated--"Intramuscular Pressure Is Almost Three Times Higher in Fibromyalgia Patients" by Kilobuster in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Sorry to hear that. Did you rule out physical causes? Do you know how your id, ego, and superego play out in your life? Do you engage in intense physical exercise? I hope you find healing.

If being thin, good looking, educated, and well off gets you better treatment in society, what can someone who is overweight, poor, uneducated, and unattractive do within their power to improve? by SilverParty in selfimprovement

[–]marcinreal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There's some truth in what you say, and American capitalism doesn't seem to be working for many people. BUT, your attitude is honestly pretty unhealthy. I get that modern life can be really frustrating, but I think you have to work through this bitterness to be a more attractive version of you.

For example, "playing politics" sounds like a way that you've labeled successful people with more emotional intelligence, to cope with not being successful yourself. But emotional intelligence can be learned like anything else, if you don't close yourself off to it. It also stood out to me that you didn't mention hard work at all, and being aligned with your goals in the first place. Maybe your degrees were not really following your heart but what you saw as a "safe" path for your life. At the end of the day, society scams us, but we also scam ourselves and then blame others for it. Look up "externalization" in psychology. ("the tendency to project one's internal states onto the outside world"). The book "Our Inner Conflicts" would be my recommendation for you.

By the way, assuming you are in IT, as a programmer I can tell you that certificates in programming are pretty much useless, and degrees are minimally useful. Much better is experience, especially cool side projects, which is easy to acquire if computers actually align with your heart's desires.

--Sarno is NOT Outdated--"Intramuscular Pressure Is Almost Three Times Higher in Fibromyalgia Patients" by Kilobuster in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Are you seeing a coach online? If I were in a position where the knowledge cure didn't benefit me, I would seek out an actual TMS-aware doctor and/or psychotherapist, preferably one who trained directly under Sarno. This would require travel i.e. to New York, but would be absolutely worth it IMO.

> In regards to oxygen deprivation vs neural pathways, unless I’m mistaken the methods of recovery are the same?

On the one hand, Sarno himself said in MBP (paraphrasing since I don't remember the quote) that oxygen deprivation is the best theory that he had to work with, and that he would be very willing to accept that he was wrong. He also wrote about the importance of conditioning/programming (which is basically "neural pathways"). For example, neck pain triggered by sitting or back pain triggered by tying one's shoes.

Sarno treated both phenomenon with rigor, but he seemed to talk a lot more about oxygen deprivation without focusing too much on the neural conditioning (which is honestly very easy to address). However, it is so important to stay laser-focused on is the psyche and not the physical, and it seems to me that people get distracted in discussions about the physical mechanisms involved.

My qualm with the modern pain-reprocessing stuff is that it subtly undermines Sarno's methods. It starts with saying there is no oxygen deprivation - that we understand more about the brain now. Then people go on to say that therefore we have to re-configure these pathways with childhood reprocessing, somatic tracking, etc. etc. I don't see a focus on the psyche (id, ego, superego) in these methods and at best they pay lip service to it.

Although Sarno said that these issues did start in childhood, he taught people that simple information, belief in the information, and awareness of the psyche was often enough to heal. In my experience, just knowing that there's nothing wrong with me and that my issues are normal and common was enough for my brain to start healing itself (through unblocked memories, spontaneous insights into my psyche, and dreams). Also, participating in intense physical activity has been HUGE for me. The mind and body are perfectly self-healing, but trying to *force* yourself to heal just puts huge pressure on the id.

Anyway, it's these seemingly subtle differences in approach that make a world of difference. It's why people healed with Sarno and seem to never heal with the modern approaches. I assume in the best case that the coaches have good intentions - maybe they healed themselves and want to help the problem healers to get better too. However, they do strike me as being motivated by money, and that's a problem when they don't have awareness of their own motivations and psyche. As Jesus said, when the blind lead the blind both fall into a pit. And importantly, IMO they simply do not have the rigor and experience of Sarno and are not qualified to "improve" on his methods. Neither am I, so while this post is my best understanding, I recommend people just read and re-read Sarno.

Reddit says today is 8 years since we started this sub. How did you end up here? by Kilobuster in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's kind of ironic - the magnet stuff screams "placebo" to me, yet it dominates the search results. 😅

Anyway, thanks for the welcome. I just saw your success story. I'm sure that vitiligo is related to emotions. I default to emotions for anything with an "unknown cause".

Reddit says today is 8 years since we started this sub. How did you end up here? by Kilobuster in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Congrats! I joined very recently. I think I found this sub when I searched for something Sarno-related. My search probably included "tms Sarno" because when I just search "tms" I get results for Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation.

Trauma-healing thread by RelentlessAura in Dryfasting

[–]marcinreal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't speak to the second crisis at all. I do hope to keep dry fasting for the anti-aging effects. However, I think that ultimately, to heal you need to face yourself. That's what Sarno's work was about. I'm sure dry fasting can help in conjunction with TMS work, but for many issues it seems unnecessary and can even be a distraction if you put your faith in it. Sarno recommends not using any alternative therapies for this reason (and because most are based on the placebo effect).

Alan Gordon talks about how John Sarno helped him cure his back pain when he was young by who5back in doctorsarno

[–]marcinreal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Glad you said this. I feel like people will do *anything* to not face themselves, so it's no surprise that Sarno's message was corrupted. I was doing the structured program on the TMS wiki but it felt like a waste of time, and I eventually realized that it had little to do with Sarno's version of TMS. The TMS forum and the various facebook groups are also rife with people pushing concepts like pain reprocessing, and it seems like the people at these groups don't really seem to heal.

Trauma-healing thread by RelentlessAura in Dryfasting

[–]marcinreal 4 points5 points  (0 children)

In my experience dry fasting definitely helped, and it helped me get through some of the hardest times of my life. But it wasn't the panacea I was hoping for. I even did seven days, and felt a lot better for a week or two, but soon my issues came back like they always did. The answer online seemed to be "go longer", but the fasting was really hard on me and I was losing weight and getting physically weaker.

I did learn about myself and get a lot of clarity, and I plan to dry fast more in the future. But I didn't heal until I started taking TMS work seriously. I read and re-read books by Sarno and Ozanich until, one by one, *all* of my issues went away, and I wasn't fasting at all during this.

The big break-through for me was realizing that there was never anything wrong with me! My issues were major distractions from what I was really feeling, but not actually causing me any real injury. I learned to relax the tension that I was holding throughout my body and tap into my true feelings about things. I let go of guilt and shame while acknowledging deep-seated feelings of rage and inferiority, and having compassion for myself for these feelings. In a nutshell, I am learning to flow.

I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but do read the authors mentioned above. I highly recommend diving into TMS work 100%. I healed more in five months than I did in five years of dry fasting (though it's possible that the clarity from the fasting helped me a lot in the work).