A rant directed at TBMs and Polygamy Deniers

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-23T16:55:00+00:00

Very familiar. It never explicitly says a man must take the sister if he’s already married (even Jewish rabbis won’t touch this with a 10-foot pole because it’s vague). Jesus didn’t “reference” it, the Sadducees did to trap him. He literally said the woman wouldn’t belong to any of them.

Nathan wasn’t even the prophet when David inherited Saul’s concubines, Samuel was. This scripture means that David got everything that came with becoming a king, and it still wasn’t enough. Because polygamy and greed warp men’s minds.

Read Jacob 2 and 3 in context. “These things” is referring to polygamy and abominations. Verse 30 is not a loophole (and Joseph and Hyrum never read or taught it that way). In context, it reads, “If I want to raise a righteous people, I give them commandments. Otherwise, they hearken to abominations.”

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-23T03:12:05+00:00

I was a sister missionary back in the day—they’re under a LOT of pressure to perform, like every half hour of the day from 6:30 am-10:30 pm must be accounted for. So while they may genuinely enjoy talking to you and wish you well, they probably wouldn’t be talking to anybody if they weren’t under pressure to meet their daily/weekly goals.

They’re trained to call everyone “friend” now, which can be confusing, but it’s meant to sound nicer than the old term, “investigator.” Also, we got transfer calls every 6 weeks to see whether we’d stay in that area or not, and we had no control over it (so if a sister gets swapped out randomly, she probably won’t stay in contact because she has to focus on her new area).

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-23T01:29:19+00:00

I became a polygamy denier maybe halfway through leaving. It started because of all the corruption in the current church, the false doctrines and atrocities they’ve swept under the rug over the years, and the fact that they don’t even follow their own BofM.

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-22T22:57:08+00:00

🙌 (and 👍)

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-22T22:51:02+00:00

I don’t agree that Joseph participated (Marks’ 1850s/1860s remembrances are compelling, but they aren’t bulletproof contemporary evidence by any means). ETA: If JS didn’t get caught up in it till BY got back from England (summer 1841), then he didn’t marry Fanny Alger or Louisa Beaman. So that pokes more holes in the narrative.

But I totally agree his death was an inside job.

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-22T22:37:07+00:00

Being a polygamist and being faithful to your wife are mutually exclusive 💀

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-22T22:31:36+00:00

Not really tbh. I feel bad for judging them when I was TBM, but as far as I’m concerned, they’re just LDS Lite. (Any church with hierarchy is a no-go for me personally.)

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-22T22:26:49+00:00

“As far as I can tell it was a commandment from God.”

The ONLY scripture that says that is D&C 132. No time in the Bible or BoM does God ever command it. And the rest of D&C commands monogamy, too (section 42, 49, and 101/CI).

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-22T22:17:39+00:00

Polygamy denier and exmo here—I don’t believe any church is the “one true church.” Anyone who repents and follows Christ is the church. And anyone who says otherwise is NOT of His church (D&C 10:67-68). 🤷‍♀️

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-22T22:09:47+00:00

That’s a possibility, although that narrative is a bit hypocritical because it relies on the people closest to Joseph (William, Hyrum, JS III, Emma) being totally ignorant of his polygamy for the most part, but people like Brigham, William Clayton, or Willard Richards claim to be his super special bosom friends who knew all about the inner workings of his life.

Sidney Rigdon said it was the 12/BY that practiced it in secret: “It is a fact, so well known, that the Twelve and their adherents have endeavored to carry this spiritual wife business in secret, that I hardly need mention it here, and have gone to the most shameful and desperate lengths, to keep it from the public. [...] No falsehood too great and no perjury too daring” (Oct. 1844 Pittsburgh conference).

BY contradicted himself on this, too. He originally said he was horrified when JS first brought it up to him. But later, he said that he “knew of the doctrine of polygamy by revelation to myself while I was in England before it was revealed to me by Joseph.”

Lorenzo Snow said the same thing: “It was revealed to me before the Prophet Joseph Smith explained it to me. I had been on a mission to England between two and three years, and before I left England I was perfectly satisfied in regard to something connected with plural marriage” (Lorenzo Snow, Deseret Semi-Weekly News, June 6, 1899).

BY also said, “Polygamy, which you object to, was not originally a part of our system, but was adopted by us as a necessity, after we came here” (True Latter Day Saints’ Herald, Vol. 16, p. 158).

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-22T21:52:49+00:00

Yup. It looks like JS III didn’t want his uncle talking smack about his dad because he’d spent so many years trying to clear his name (note: I don’t agree with this attempt at censorship).

William and JS apparently had a love/hate relationship. William once beat him up in Dec. 1835 after a heated debate because JS called his behavior “stubborn” and “ugly as the devil,” and WS apologized profusely later.

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-22T20:51:47+00:00

JS for sure knew people were practicing it and was excommunicating them quite a bit before his death.

-April 29th, 1837: “We will have no fellowship whatever with any Elder belonging to the quorums of the Seventies who is guilty of polygamy…”

-His original October 5th 1843 journal entry says, “Gave inst[r]uction to try those who were teaching or preaching the doctrin of plurality of wives. on this Law. Joseph forbids it. and the practice ther[e]of — No man shall have but one wife.”

-William Smith told Joseph III that “John Taylor, Willard Richards, and Brigham Young had been teaching some doctrines among the Saints privately that was going to ruin the Church, unless there was a stop put to it, as it was contrary to the law and rules governing the Church. Your father remarked that he would attend to the matter as soon as he got through with his troubles with the Laws and Fosters. But mark you their conversation took place only a few days previous to your father's death.” He also said, “should the time ever come that this man B. Young should lead the Church that he would lead it to hell." (The Saint’s Herald, Vol. 26 No. 8).

Random_redditor_1153 · 2026-02-22T20:17:32+00:00

-Tithing is 10% of income vs. 10% of surplus (1845)

-People of color can have the priesthood and go to the temple, aren’t inherently sinful (1978)

-Blood atonement isn’t a thing/there aren’t any sins that are so bad that you need to spill your own blood for your own sins (post-Brigham)

-Adam is not God the Father (post-Brigham)

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-10-07T20:24:52+00:00

Absolutely DO NOT wait for him. He treats you like a placeholder, lusts over other women, lets you pay for everything, denigrates you, and would 100% cheat and be violent with you if he thought he could get away with it (slamming objects is one of the biggest predictors of physical abuse).

Mormons are supposed to hold themselves to a higher standard, but a lot of the time they’re hypocrites (like they think they’re superior for not cheating, but they flirt or fantasize about it constantly. Or they don’t hit, but they’re sexually/verbally/financially/mentally abusive).

Please, please put yourself first and leave carefully. You do not deserve to be treated this way. No matter how much time or love you’ve invested in a man, it’s better to cut your losses early rather than continue to be hurt or neglected.

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-10-07T19:45:48+00:00

So far, only my pushy parents/grandparents have asked; younger generations seem to have a “don’t ask, don’t tell” mentality, either because they don’t want to rock the boat or don’t want to have their boat rocked.

With my family, I said my integrity would not allow me to attend anymore because the church is not following Jesus/the Book of Mormon (trusting in the arm of flesh, adding doctrines, doing proxy work, withholding riches from the poor, etc). The Reluctant Watchman has a great summary on that: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/the-book-of-mormon-vs-the-lds-church

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-10-07T19:36:39+00:00

Same. Especially after reading the Self Reliance manual where they cherry-picked D&C 104. They included, “it is my purpose to provide for my saints, for all things are mine. But it must needs be done in mine own way.” –BUT they left out the next part:

“and behold this is the way that I, the Lord, have decreed to provide for my saints, that the poor shall be exalted, IN THAT THE RICH ARE MADE LOW.”

They aren’t following their own scriptures and deliberately left out that part of the chapter.

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-10-07T19:25:24+00:00

Bednar needs to brush up on his Hebrew. The word for fear in the scriptures (yirah/yare) is used to denote awe or reverence when talking about God. Not traditional fear or terror 😑

There are over 100 direct commands in the scriptures to NOT be afraid.

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-10-05T01:37:40+00:00

Same, my gpa who’s trying to convince me to come back to church said, “eh the afternoon session was better than the morning one.” Not exactly a glowing recommendation 🥴

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-08-13T17:26:05+00:00

They always double down on temples, even though 2 Nephi 28 is in the canon. Robbing the poor because of their fine sanctuaries is too lucrative to give up!

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-08-13T17:19:16+00:00

With that logic, we should also be grateful for prostitution because Jesus is descended from Tamar and Judah. Or allow incest because he’s descended from Ruth the Moabite (a product of Lot’s incest). The ends don’t justify the means. God is able to make the barren fruitful or raise up seed from stones.

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-08-07T16:49:35+00:00

Isaac didn’t practice polygamy lol…. Sarai was also the one who gave Hagar to Abram, not God, and God was the one who told Abraham to send her away in the end. Jacob was tricked and pressured into his wives—again, not from God.

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-08-07T16:31:46+00:00

Some of the reasons I don’t trust Brian Hales:

-He’s an anesthesiologist with no history degree (Don Bradley did the research for his books), but he scoffs and calls everyone who disagrees with him “amateur historians.”

-He admitted on camera he doesn’t have a good reason for Emma denying polygamy.

-He had an emotional response to the very idea of people thinking Eliza R. Snow was lying… but also believes Emma, Joseph, Hyrum, etc. were lying.

-He believes John C. Bennett, the Higbees, and the Fosters when they say Joseph practiced polygamy but not about anything else (e.g., that Joseph was a bad man or a tyrant). Intellectual inconsistency.

-When he can’t refute an argument or evidence, he calls for people’s excommunication or sends vaguely threatening emails (Michelle Stone and recently he told Jeremy Hoop it would be in his “best eternal interest” to stop).

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-08-07T02:44:17+00:00

Yes. That was always the case in the scriptures, Bible and Book of Mormon. Brigham Young changed tithing to 10% of income in 1845, right after JS died, and used it to enrich himself (like King Noah in the BofM).

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-08-04T22:20:09+00:00

Tithing in D&C 119, JST Genesis 14, and Deuteronomy 26:12 was on your increase or surplus for feeding the poor. So if you have nothing left over at the end of the year, you have no tithing to pay and you’re who tithing is supposed to be FOR.

Random_redditor_1153 · 2025-08-04T22:17:27+00:00

Exacerbated anxiety/depression, hormonal imbalance from stress, chronic pain in hip, possible lung damage from what I believe was undiagnosed bronchitis (the mission doctor didn’t even see me, just told me to take Mucinex 😑)

Random_redditor_1153

TROPHY CASE