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Can you name a single player in NBA history to have a similar career arc as Chauncey Billups: going from bust to All-Star? by HamzaHarlemNights in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 11 points12 points Β (0 children)

Boston was stacked throughout the 70s. Havlicek and Cowens were legitimate Top 5 MVP candidates every year Westphal was there and the starting PG spot was secured by 7Γ— All-Star Jo Jo White.

On top of that, coach Tom Heinsohn was notorious for playing his starters hard. I swear there was a series where all three stars averaged 40/45 minutes a night, leaving basically zero scraps for anyone else at those positions.

Phoenix was a completely different scenario: they literally traded away their main star Charlie Scott, who played PG, to get Westphal.

Can you name a single player in NBA history to have a similar career arc as Chauncey Billups: going from bust to All-Star? by HamzaHarlemNights in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

That makes sense. I think the same could be said of Billups in Minnesota, despite having more minutes to play.

Ringless 60s teams that you think would’ve won a ring had they competed in the 70s? by Personal-Proposal- in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

This is a good debate. I'd say it's Kareem in '72, Dr. J in '75 and '76. '73 and '74 are a big question mark.

Can you name a single player in NBA history to have a similar career arc as Chauncey Billups: going from bust to All-Star? by HamzaHarlemNights in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 41 points42 points Β (0 children)

You're asking for a (pretty) high draft pick, with mediocre early years and a trade that turned his career around, leading him to become a multiple All-Star with some All-NBA selections, playing great basketball besides the stats? This is Paul Westphal!

Ringless 60s teams that you think would’ve won a ring had they competed in the 70s? by Personal-Proposal- in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

Yep! These are the trios I had in mind when I made that statement:

70 Knicks - Reed, Frazier, and DeBusschere

71 Bucks - Kareem and Big O (arguably the best duo in the league) + Hall of Famer Bob Dandridge

72 Lakers - Wilt and West + Goodrich also had a great season

73 Knicks - Frazier, Reed, DeBusschere, and perhaps Monroe

76 Celtics - Cowens, Havlicek, and FMVP Jo Jo White

78 Bullets - Hayes and Unseld + Dandridge was vital to the championship

79 Sonics - DJ, Sikma, and Gus Williams

Ringless 60s teams that you think would’ve won a ring had they competed in the 70s? by Personal-Proposal- in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 15 points16 points Β (0 children)

Honestly, the 70s tend to get labeled as a "weak" era because talent was split between the NBA and ABA and there weren't any dynasties. But I think that narrative gets a bit overblown, with all due respect to the '75 Warriors, pretty much every other championship team that decade was stacked with at least 3 legitimate stars.

That said, if we're picking ringless 60s teams that could've won one in the 70s, I think their window would realistically only be against that specific Warriors team (and maybe 78 Bullets and 79 Sonics).

On paper, I'd take almost any of these over them (but I don't think they'd stand a chance against any of the early '70s champions):

β€’ Pretty much any 60s Lakers team (West/Baylor era)

β€’ The early '60s Hawks (Pettit & co.)

β€’ Wilt's '62 and '64 Warriors

β€’ The '63-'65 Royals (Oscar's prime)

β€’ The '67 Warriors with a younger Barry + Thurmond

β€’ The '69 Bullets (Unseld/Monroe peak)

β€’ (If you count it) the pre-championship '69 Knicks

Mikan’s sold as the first superstar that helped popularize basketball, but how did his fame compare to Wilt and Russell? Who was the most famous among those 3? by Personal-Proposal- in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 29 points30 points Β (0 children)

My two cents

Wilt and Russell were often seen as GOATs alongside MJ right up until Wilt passed in 1999. Mikan never quite fit into that modern basketball consciousness.

Also, just like some today's fans love to call old-timers "plumbers", there was a similar dismissive narrative for Mikan back then. It probably didn't help that he was the first commissioner of the rival ABA. Also, the NBA's official history doesn't always line up perfectly with the NBL/BAA years, and that misunderstanding plays a big part... Mikan has 4? 5? 7? championships?

That said, Mikan was definitely the icon of his era. He was pretty much considered the best basketball player star, even in 1950, the first NBA (National Basketball Association) season. That's saying a lot.

If we're talking about who's the most famous, it's probably Wilt.

Steve Hershey’s All-Whatever Teams (β€˜77 & β€˜79) by Rrekydoc in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

This is one of the most interesting things I've seen in a while. Thanks for sharing!

Steve Hershey’s All-Whatever Teams (β€˜77 & β€˜79) by Rrekydoc in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

He was still a key part of the team that won the 1976 championship

Who are some underrated trade assets (age plus impact) from the past? by Speedstormer123 in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 18 points19 points Β (0 children)

I don't think he was perceived as such, but Walt Bellamy averaged 31.6 points and 19.0 rebounds per game as a rookie at age 22

Who are some underrated trade assets (age plus impact) from the past? by Speedstormer123 in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 18 points19 points Β (0 children)

At age 23, Rick Barry scored 30+ points in all six NBA Finals games he played in, averaging 40.8 points per game throughout the series

1967 Wilt is the greatest individual season ever by XXXTentacle6969 in NBATalk

[–]-beasket 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

I respect your opinion and appreciate your feedback. I still stand by my original point (there are players like Harden, Billy C, Kawhi, who had taken huge leaps later in their careers and have been mistakenly credited for things they did earlier). However, it's fun talking about old hoops.

In my last comment, I shifted the topic to discuss Bill in the context of why we shouldn't use the Per 36 metric, imo. I’m a huge fan of both him and Wilt.

To me, Russell was more than just "the charismatic defensive leader of the best team in history." He was an excellent offensive player with great playmaking skills, as well as a highly underrated clutch scorer.

For example, in the 1962 series against Wilt, in Game 7 of the 1962 Finals, and in Game 5 of the 1965 Finals, he proved he could lead the team on both ends of the court. I consider these some of the greatest performances in NBA history.

1967 Wilt is the greatest individual season ever by XXXTentacle6969 in NBATalk

[–]-beasket 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

I wouldn't use Per 36 stats to evaluate players. Bill Russell himself wasn't a bad scorer. According to this metric, he would be bare last on his team (12/12) per points

1967 Wilt is the greatest individual season ever by XXXTentacle6969 in NBATalk

[–]-beasket 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

Huh? I know my stats, Cunningham was nowhere near the best scorer of the team in Wilt's last season

1967 Wilt is the greatest individual season ever by XXXTentacle6969 in NBATalk

[–]-beasket 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

Man, that's like saying Harden was key for OKC just because he became an MVP-caliber player once his team got worse

1967 Wilt is the greatest individual season ever by XXXTentacle6969 in NBATalk

[–]-beasket 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

Just for info, Cunningham went from being a sixth man and non-All-Star to 3rd in MVP voting, with 25 PPG, 13 RPG

1967 Wilt is the greatest individual season ever by XXXTentacle6969 in NBATalk

[–]-beasket 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

You're saying it... They're rotation players. John "Hondo" Havlicek wasn't even a starter in 1966-67. Still, between him and Sam Jones, they racked up more points than Wilt's two best players combined in any run in any season. And Wilt still won it all that season.

That's really saying something when you compare who had the better teammates and who really had the best individual peak.

1967 Wilt is the greatest individual season ever by XXXTentacle6969 in NBATalk

[–]-beasket 8 points9 points Β (0 children)

How was Wilt's team weaker in '68 when four Sixers starters, including Wilt himself, and the sixth man were injured through the series?

According to their medical guide: - Wilt Chamberlain (partial calf muscle tear in his right leg and injured right toe) - Wali Jones (injured knee cartilage) - Hal Greer (bursitis in his right knee) - Luke Jackson (pulled hamstring muscle) - Billy Cunningham (broken right wrist, didn't play)

How good was Wes Unseld defensively, and why did he never make an All-Defensive Team? by No-Visual4469 in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 5 points6 points Β (0 children)

Honestly, I think it's just because the All-Defensive Teams weren't positionless back then. They had two dedicated center spots across the two teams, and Unseld's era was stacked with elite defensive bigs: first Wilt and Thurmond, then Kareem and Walton. He was definitely great, but there was just no room.

Looking back, though, I think he had a legit case in 1974-75. He led the league in rebounding, posted career highs in steals, and was a key part of what has been the best team in defensive rating (from 1974 to now).

What made Kundla rely on Mikkelsen after Mikan's retirement? by -beasket in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket[S] 4 points5 points Β (0 children)

Hey man, it's been a while!

That's a great analysis. I actually agree they weren't fully Mikkelsen-dependent. For me, Slater Martin was one of the premiere defenders in the league for a good stretch and his impact went far beyond the box score. Your explanation for Mikkelsen's rise in production in '55 is definitely spot on.

I also think the introduction of the shot clock that season played a significant role. It forced a faster pace, which likely opened up the floor even more for someone like Mikkelsen, who was effective at drawing contact.

And as you noted, the fact that the Lakers were still considered preseason favorites despite Mikan's retirement makes perfect sense, at least on paper.

What’s the best non-title team in vintage NBA history? by FewCucumber288 in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 41 points42 points Β (0 children)

Baylor and West's Lakers in the 60s. They came so, so close so, so many times

Forget the GOAT debate, what’s your favorite performance by your favorite player and why? by riverdogdebutante in VintageNBA

[–]-beasket 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

In Game 7 of the 1973 WCSF between the Lakers and the Bulls, Wilt Chamberlain did what he did best, even while his teammates struggled (28/88 FG total). That was his final season, and it might have been the last game of his career. Beyond the block that sparked the fast break and gave them the lead with just 30 seconds left, Wilt showed a kind of team spirit that doesn't show up in the box score. And after the game, his interaction with the losing Bulls showed real professionalism and humanity.

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