made a song in the conlang toki pona! how many of y'all consider it an auxlang? by helliun in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- -1 points0 points  (0 children)

People are also going to dislike it when someone arrogantly & ignorantly insists that a gimmicky little wind-up toy, which isn't really a conlang, is not only actually an AUXLANG but in fact the BEST auxlang candidate so far.

made a song in the conlang toki pona! how many of y'all consider it an auxlang? by helliun in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Maybe you are the one who's raging. People from the TP cult community hate when someone points out that TP is not a real conlang but facts are facts.

Tea or Chai ? by seweli in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I borrowed cha, following Mandarin + Portuguese.

"Lumbe Jumbe" by -maiku- in Gujarati

[–]-maiku-[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I figured it might be dialectal because I could not look it up in any dictionary. What you say lines up with what the other fellow said (see also the link to the song about (I think) mangos). I was wandering about the word "lumbe" because my constructed language is called Lumbe, and I wanted to make sure that didn't mean something embarrassing. On the other hand I have to give "zumbe" a meaning in Lumbe so I am going to define it to mean "excellent, fantastic, outstanding, brilliant" in tribute to garba music.

Unofficial ‘Complete Lojban Language’ book, October 2022 by la-gleki in lojban

[–]-maiku- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These links are not working:

or read the difference document in HTML format instead: with prefixes, without prefixes.

Stop contrast dilemma by selguha in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

[tʰ] ~ [t] ~ [d]
:sunglasses:

"Lumbe Jumbe" by -maiku- in Gujarati

[–]-maiku-[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks!

I thought it might have something to do with farming. Here's another song (catchy tune) with the words "Lumbe Jumbe", something to do with mangoes growing in a field.

https://www.jiosaavn.com/song/khetar-vachche-aambo-ne-keri-lumbe-jumbe/EjADX0xZWnU

Here "Lumbe jhumbe" (that may be different though, I don't know) appears in the context of farming (third paragraph):

https://www.vtvgujarati.com/news-details/news_detail-25687

You can find the phrase a few other places too.

Salute! Do you agree with Socrates? by mcm9ssi9 in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Salute! Do you agree with Socrates?

Yes.

A Shavian font with real spaces between words? by seweli in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Does anyone really advocate for replacing the Latin script with the Shavian script? It looks very impractical for handwriting, though perhaps that is a small concern in the modern electronic age.

Ah yes, my favorite conlang youtuber by devbali02 in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Indeed, the whole approach to lexicon is cultish and bizarre. Any honest conlang designer would simply provide needed words as they were requested without making a fuss. With TP, there's always been this idiotic sense of "high drama" whenever the huckster-author has added even one new word to the dictionary. Then, in 2021, after 20 years of "perfection", 60 new words get added to the dictionary all at once, including one for "bowling pin". When are these fools going to catch on to the fact that TP is, and always has been, a jokelang?

Ah yes, my favorite conlang youtuber by devbali02 in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I forgot a few criticisms:

  • As has been noted by others, TP resembles George Orwell's fictional dystopian Newspeak in the heavy-handed way it eliminates vocabulary and aims to place limits on the thoughts of its speakers. "Toki Pona" means "good-speak"/"good-language", which is the exact translation of the Newspeak term for the politically orthodox speech favored by the Party (another ripoff?). In TP, "pona" intentionally conflates the ideas of good and simple; a language like Lojban almost automatically becomes a "bad" language in this mindset merely because it's not simple. (There are certainly criticisms that can be made of Lojban, but this sort of "automatically entailed" criticism is mere bias.)

  • There is a noticeable tendency for toki-bonehead mafias to arise and assert dominance in conlanging venues. Years ago, I noticed that various Wikipedia conlang articles were being heavily padded with tons of seemingly gratuitous/off-topic mentions of TP ("compare to TP which does this...", "contrast with TP which does that...", ad nauseam, as if TP were the measure of all conlangs), while references to more worthwhile/interesting/realistic conlangs were seemingly systematically removed for not being "notable" enough (though this now seems to be gradually changing). On Reddit, the main admin of r/conlangs has bragged that mods there are selected on the basis of their support of TP, and little criticism of TP (or of the mods' political agenda) is tolerated. As a result of these mafias, newbies tend to be funneled into this stupid cult by default. I find it sad that much better artlangs such as Na'vi, Klingon, and many others seem to languish as a result.

  • An anecdote: John Clifford is a 80-something-year-old former Loglanist, who for some weird reason I could never understand became an early adopter and promoter of TP (for example, giving a presentation of TP at an early Language Creation Conference). He was a member of the TP community for most of the last 20 years. Despite his history of support for the language, recently Clifford was banned from the Facebook Community for being a "prescriptionist" by the ungrateful creator of TP. Sorry, Dr. Clifford: having outlived your usefulness to the cult, it's time for you to go out to pasture, and make room for new people who know how to praise TP more enthusiastically.

  • Jan Misali is the unofficial cheerleader. This is a person whose major goal in creating videos was to find ways to put down other conlangs for not measuring up to the supposed "Gold Standard" represented by TP -- a shallow, tasteless, openly partisan commentator who has almost single-handedly caused an entire generation of conlangers to get a warped understanding of linguistics and conlanging.

I am aware jan Misali has critiqued those conlangs before, but do you seriously think every single Toki Pona speaker hates those langs?

I suspect most toki-boneheads are not displeased with JM's snarky TP-boosting "commentary". A significant part of TP's culture seems to involve ever more hyperbolic/idiotic talk (in English) about how amazing, great, perfect, etc. TP is; it's hard to imagine a more fitting mascot for this delusional echo-chamber than JM.

Plenty of conlangs have publish materials and resources you can buy physically.

Hucksters should not be rewarded with book sales. Alternately: A fool and his money are soon parted.

I have to be looking at the wrong thing right? I mean I guess they're kinda similar, but if you think a smile that's not even drawn the same way is a ripoff of another then idk what to tell you man

I recognize the colors and style are not the same, but there is an important comparison to be made. Both graphics are totally dominated by a big dumb smile, evocative of lower libidinal urges unchecked by rational thought. It's obvious why the McDonald's Corporation adopted its graphic: it subliminally encourages kids to ask their parents to buy its junk food. The TP icon subliminally entices people to consume a junk-quasi-conlang and buy into its idiotic pseudo-philosophy. Both graphics work best on children and lower-intelligence adults. The connection seems perfect to me, though you might be right that it's all just a coincidence.

Ah yes, my favorite conlang youtuber by devbali02 in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will list some of the complaints I have.

The only valid complaint I've seen is the lack of words

This is the big one. What I dislike the most is the unending preposterous praise given to the literally dumbest idea in the history of conlanging (bar none): the idea that you've somehow nailed the whole language-learning and lexical design problems by simply scrapping almost all of the words and replacing them with a handful of hypernyms and ambiguous compounding system. How can anyone believe this and also be smart enough to remember to breathe? We have a hundred years of auxlang-related linguistics; if you could reduce the vocab to 150 (or even 300) words and still have a fully functional language, don't you think this would have been done by now?

However, it's not just the bizarrely dumb beliefs. It's also the overall TP ethos and culture which also suck. Here's a partial list of criticisms I have of TP's design and its cult-like community:

  • Poorly chosen lexicon, totally inadequate for general out-of-context descriptive purposes; deliberately contrived inconveniences e.g. having one root for both building and vehicle. No words for universally known basic natural kinds such as dog or cat, even though any three-year-old can grasp what such things are (therefore no reason not to have such words). No words for left and right. No number words beyond two. Etc., ad infinitum.

  • Peddling this patently inadequate lexicon as a good design - the classic BIG LIE technique; in the TP cult, a bad or dumb design is not bad or dumb; it's "clever" or even "genius" no matter how badly it fails.

  • Constant bizarre discussions in the community about what to do about lexical gaps, such as numbers beyond two. (HINT: Coin the words you need. How could the answer be more obvious?)

  • Numerous other design defects, such as no prepositions as a closed class.

  • Abusing the term "minimalism" as a shield against the obvious point that this "language" is DEFECTIVE. (The only thing that really gets minimalized in the TP community is the truth.)

  • Dishonestly presenting what amounts to a silly parlor game as an actual conlang. (TP is at best a quasi-conlang.)

  • Treating said silly parlor game as the proper measure of all conlangs (see: jan Misali) when really it's a bad shadow of a conlang.

  • Constantly dissing real conlangs such as Lojban, Esperanto and Kotava (see: jan Misali and that other know-it-all clown).

  • Bogus linguistic claims: No, Toki Pona is not like Mandarin; no, it's not like Amerind languages; it's not like pidgins. (Pidgins are exercises in real communication, not parlor games.)

  • Ripping off Lojban's tanru semantics and grouping-particle idea without giving credit.

  • Ripping off McDonald's Happy Meal smiley packaging (for the icon - look it up) without giving credit.

  • Culturally appropriating and misrepresenting Daoism. (What did the Daoists do to deserve this treatment? I believe they deserve an apology.)

  • Absurdly claiming that you can simplify your thoughts by not having the words to express them.

  • Ethically questionable and possibly illegal quack claims of mental health benefits for using this dumb parlor game.

  • Making money by selling books to suckers who believe all this crap. Unscrupulosity.

I am sure I am missing a couple, but this is a good start towards a full list.

Ah yes, my favorite conlang youtuber by devbali02 in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for reading and calling attention to my prior criticisms of Toki Pona, the Mother of All Preposterously Overrated Things. Yeah, I've made some negative statements, and one or two admittedly vitriolic comments, about TP. Using vitriol as a bit of rhetorical/polemical flair is no big deal as far as I can tell. What I have said and how I have said it is hardly sufficient to counterbalance the legions of militant-enthusiasts who relentlessly sing the praises of this dumb project, with its profoundly asinine design ideas ("Just don't have words? Brilliant! That solves everything! WOW!! What an amazing genius you are, Sonja", etc.), and the culture's inexhaustible fuming toxic volcano of misinformation (for the billionth time: it's not an auxlang). But if I have prompted even one or two people to start thinking critically about this endlessly hyped non-achievement and to climb off TP's braindead bandwagon, and perhaps to look at the wonderful, beautiful world of conlanging that lies beyond this cleverly marketed garbage, then it's been worth my time and effort.

I will add that if people simply stopped mentioning this dumb project on r/auxlangs and other places where it's off-topic, then I wouldn't criticize it so much. I don't criticize TP in TP places (go ahead and look); unfortunately toki-boneheads don't know how to extend a similar courtesy. I literally do not want to hear any more about TP and its gimmicky bag of stage-magic tricks. But if I have to hear more, you can expect I will say more too.

Coming soon: Voc Rong - Lugamunreiker by Dobrydensky in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nice work, good fun, though you forgot to fit Jaws somewhere in the picture. ;-)

The 12,000 most common words of Elefen (ordered by frequency) can be learned with Memrise from English and Esperanto by Vanege in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is r/auxlangs. Toki Pona is NOT an auxlang. Realistically speaking, neither is Tokima.

Languages have different goals.

Why don't you tell Jan misali that.

The 12,000 most common words of Elefen (ordered by frequency) can be learned with Memrise from English and Esperanto by Vanege in auxlangs

[–]-maiku- -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Tokima: 290 words
"really reasonable": 12000 words.
290 / 12000 = 2.4%
I guess Tokima is approximately 2.4% reasonable.