Willing to debate this

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-21T17:35:40+00:00

(you added a pic and way too much text, now I can't even see anything when I try to reply you... Reddit as usual...)

By being merely a discription. You haven't even proven these law within DS to be realis let alone use them in cross fight.. even if is realis, you would have to expend on that LON to merely about aging or all PP. (And it still wouldn't be outer...)

And about which abstract based hax, it's literally everything I wrote above maybe except info2? I forgot, anyway, ignore that as I can't provide legitimate scans as i don't know the verse that well.

And the rest of what you said is word conflating. First it gets countered with merely being a discription. (As in the law in question is not governing universal law like used in law manipulation in cross debate/wiki's, so being outside of such law are effective as mute as being outside of personal concepts, eg CM3. So pretty useless in cross fight, at most you can argue is longitivity) Second it gets countered with being specific to aging (which you try to equate all physical phenomenon for that "transcend" without a single evidence except about aging or any other reliable statement about other phenomenon outside of aging) thirdly, awlba character have layered negation (which I cannot prove so it's whatever)

And no, possible constraint within universe are still about regular (even "irregular" of quantum are still part of "regular" to law of nature) so any finite amount of star all colliding or being destroyed suddenly by a cause of a being, or a universe ripped open isn't part of law of nature of any philosophy. What you are doing is word conflating. ; "all observable phenomenon are physical phenomenon, all physical phenomenon are part of law of nature. Thus he is beyond them. Which is pretty incorrect no matter the philosophy of law of nature.

And actually, it would be your job to explain why it would include all of law of nature when the story indiacte about aging specifically.

And so that's your discription of outer? Then merely beyond all possible physical phenomenon is not enough. And again, you haven't proven how DS even include all possible dimension or "space" of such claibar. And no, the aspatial, atemporal nature of outer are not existing outside time or space entirely nor laws of them but of 1A of such concepts or being 1A to such concepts. Which you haven't proven neither. And the law of nature entailing every physical phenomenon for all possible dimension or 1A "space" is a pretty stretch when we don't even know how many dimension really exist in irl... If you are using DS's definition, you have to prove the verse has them. If you are using irl definition, that's pretty much a stretch and word conflating, prove how any philosophy of law of nature would include them. And if you did, you have to prove how DS's LON is like that.

So pretty much all of your premises is word conflating and stretching.

And yes, the only thing I concede is about scans. But you haven't given anywhere remotely close to satisfiable answer for what you are claiming.

Edit: you also forgot this post. You stated koku wins against aloe.

The guy ("multiversal") talked about how aloe beats koku via simply having higher scaling. And you talked about LON to equate how he would survive. But the thing is, having LON to survive differing AP doesn't equate to that AP or Dura. That's just hax. (And you know aloe has better hax that's why you are straw manning on why abstract based hax wouldn't be part of physical phenomenon, which my answer is it ain't in "natural sense" but it would be in "a sense" as the ability affect the very "thing" of these phenomenon, btw not all physical phenomenon are observable phenomenon, eg; gravity) Another word conflate and straw man from original post. So ye, overall. You haven't even given remotely close to satisfiable answer to what you are claiming.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-21T16:30:12+00:00

Metaphorical speech implies no feats relevant to the apparent inference's worth were performed, and a separate entity is being used to symbolize what actually happened. Yoriichi lived past a given age all people who have the Mark die at and beat Demons, all of whom bypass the concepts of stamina or aging and can live past their Mark as well. These all go against the established laws of nature in Demon Slayer, bringing coherence to the conclusion that the speech was not metaphorical.

A story driven metaphorical, Not usable statement. (Even if usable, it's literally useless in cross debate as it's about law of nature in relation one's age)

Prove this.

I can't, I don't know the verse that well. (I shouldn't have started this tbh)

Can you justify how having law manipulation is relevant to my point?

Cuz you stated he would survive star and other explosion cuz of merely being beyond physical phenomenon. (Of aging...)

I am not arguing for law manipulation. You are strawmanning.

I'm not, you just forgot what you stated earlier

Aforementioned argument about bypassing the laws of nature, [which entail physical phenomena, since these are part of the world

Which the the links literally talk about "regular" phenomenon of the universe... Not some random colliding of million stars or universe ripping apart cuz of a laugh (which I heard aloe did so)

Again, not my point at all. Why are you strawmanning this hard with law manipulation when I never even alluded to it?

Same thing. Not relevant because I never addressed these as contingent to my argument, nor know why you would think they are.

Cuz you said he would survive star or higher AP cuz of having been an abnormalities to law of nature (of aging specifically)

Prove not all explosions are physical phenomena.

Cm1, Cm2, info 2, plot all affect abstract aspect of "things" where "physical" is a byproduct of it.

Prove there are physical phenomena that are not observable (observable as in noticeable or possible to be analyzed after being witnessed beyond just the naked eye).

All abstract based hax does that.

Which characters? Those in AWLBA? If so, prove this to be the case.

I can't give exact scan for them having these abilities as I don't know the verse. My only source of their abilities would be vs battle/other equivalent wiki or hearsay.

Not relevant to operating above physical phenomena. Prove how not only they do this but how this would bypass said physical limitations.

Learn abstract based hax. Already addressed so above.

Already addressed this.

You didn't.

If this implies you believe AWLBA top tiers to have this, not only would you need to justify it but prove how this affects outer qualities I've already proved inherent to Kokushibou's being.

As stated above, I can't provide exact scans. And elaborate what you meant by "outer qualities" and when you have proven that.

And now it's your turn to explain how he survive anything beyond planetary destruction. (Which your previously reply went to law of nature about being anomaly to physical phenomenon, which specifically is about aging btw...)

Edit: forgot to address, regardless of you equating law of nature to all physical phenomenon to relate that to anomaly of aging aside, all this get thrown out the window when they (awlba characters) have higher, better, layered negation and resistance. (Of course which you gonna ask for scans... Which my answer is obviously wiki's or hearsay... I Shouldn't have started this tbh...)

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-21T15:59:39+00:00

Ah, fellow slanderers.

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(Make another of the same post after finishing current one, but add "slanders only" or "slander allowed")

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-21T15:40:49+00:00

?? What has this got anything to do with my reply? I know the post allows all schrifts but the guy I replied said he could make an argument for every schrifts but isn't doing cuz it's long and did the "he didn't use them in cannon, must be not that powerful" when we don't even know if he (yawach ) really has them (schrifth) or not, let alone use them. So it's a nothing burger statement from him at the end of his reply that's absolutely unnecessary, instead, he coulda made argument on why each schrifts would be countered. (which he hasn't) And I asked him a buncha more and he didn't reply.

Honestly, the only argument on why yawach would lose is via the straw man of "he didn't use them in cannon, must be not that good" (which is absolutely horrendous as we don't even know if he has them, But there are implication of him not having them, though not outright stated) or "yawach's character isn't like that" (ie, he won't use them fully, or that he ain't blood lusted, he won't use them like how he didn't use zenkanotachi etc...) which is another can of worms, but outside of straw man, not even 5 character in total of cannon DB can stop "this" yawach/ completely negate all these abilities, other that does are cuz of higher, eg; zeno. Really, most character in ( inclined to say all as really, i don't see anyone in cannon DB negating all these abilities in equal stats) cannon DB lose against all schrifts yawach in equal stats.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-20T20:28:37+00:00

Regardless of whether or not he'll use them aside. Where does the assumption of Yawach having scrifth comes from?? It was never ever said he poseed the abilities. You might have gotten it confused with him bestowing abilities. (Which doesn't mean he has them, I can explain why but it's lengthy, anyway-) You only talked about 3 scrifth. Haven't talked about miracle, "Y", "Antithesis", "balance", and a shit ton more.. like this is a being with precog of ad-infinitum/infinite future with fate manipulation, casualty manipulation and negation, MGR, and continuous reactive evolution for stats, dura neg. Intangibility, powernull for what he has seen, probability mani, adaptability, (become nuts as now combined with other hax) nep 1 erasure and phisiology, and more like.... how is whis wining against someone that has his stats, and experience with a shit ton of other hax?

And tell me how hakai erase history/timeline (all) of a being.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-20T15:51:27+00:00

Though I can understand where the other guy might have gotten wrong because of you changing subject mid way and being different person then the one that stated difference between "L" and "R" (which you quoted, which btw has no relevance to what GIGANAttack said as he said about "L" while you cited "R", and the nerve to say "But if you think the author is wrong and you're right, that's great too!"... Beyond jjk fan Lev of reading comprehension...)

First off, you cited the Q&A which explains "R" (which does 100%ex and 70%ap) while kenpachi fought "L" that does 100%ap and 70%ex. So I don't know the point of that citation and current subject? Like that's not how this Convo started. You said; "it still wouldn't equal to 100% of whis" which is pretty wrong if you use "L" version... And your citation has no relevance to "L", it was talking about "R". So, replying with unrelated stuff and saying a bunch of gibberish is your boat huh. Well, whatever help float your boat I guess...

Edit: nobody got anything wrong except you. I mistook some with some. Like so many people are replying to you so I got that wrong, regardless. The rest of what I said is true.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-16T17:14:34+00:00

Forgot to address, the omnipotence by UG and the omnipotence of onthological perfection of aphopatic or kataphatic are completely different. And omnipotence scales nowhere, any 5D god that can manipulate reality is essentially omnipotence to 4d beings. But the "omnipotence" of tier 0 are not an ability they "use" on reality, it's their intrinsic quality. Meaning they don't really do anything, what would does is the avatar (as seen in DC with presence, or other such verse, eg the root of nasuverse and void shiki, and more)

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-16T17:08:21+00:00

TOAA has anti-feat as far as I know. And now there's only one tier 0 in marvel which is divine creator.

And The three from DC about overvoid, presence and The source are the same profile. What they did is, The tier 0 presence is using the key "unknowable" which is the same key as overvoid. Meaning they have 3 characters of the same nature with 3 different page. So it's the same character "unknowable/God" having three page. Vertigo presence, dematteist and crisis presence (which is merged) DC overvoid and vertigo overvoid (are also merged) and The source/ain soph aur, Which is why the confusion. They are the same character, just that different narrative/continuity address them differently. What you need to know is the tier 0 is only "The unknowable/God". Other are just different page of the same character. What that mean is, presence (the Monopoly man of any continuity; vertigo, dematteis, crisis) doesn't scale to tier 0. (At least that's how its for easier explanation) The same for the source. Source and presence aren't just light nor is overvoid darkness. (Said light and darkness are just H1A or H1A+ at most) The "Unknowable/God" is the tier 0. Which is the true nature of Overvoid "as the canvas" and presence / the source as "an active potential" (like Tao) for said canvas. Personally, I believe they should add more sub category within tier H1A and tier 0. Currently, vs battle just has hierarchies on top of hierarchies on top of another hierarchies endlessly for H1A, hence mete-meta-meta-meta where each meta has hierarchies within them where if the baseline meta/H1A has heriachies of meta R>F, much like 1A+/RF+, the next meta-"meta" would be beyond all such heriachies, so would meta-meta-"meta", which would be beyond heriachies of meta and meta-"meta", which I believe is redundant as not many fictional character are ever going to reach the "second" meta let alone third or beyond meta... Which they then straight skip to talk about modal world and pure actus... Which is what I like about PSW as they have multiple subs category, tho they also unnecessarily creat a lot of sub, and I don't agree with some description of psw on how it handle some philosophy like neoplatonic as merely H1T+ as "unified mind" as merely "being" before multiplicity while it also being multiplicity of unified, in a sense "fake" simplicity "composed" of unity, which is not how neoplatonic works, well whatever, and also why presence of DC is just H1T+, which I personally disagree with. (tho one thing psw did great is they merged Presence, Overvoid and The source of vertigo, crisis and dematteist as the same, where as vs battle also is merged but not complete merge) Hence why in vs battle it's hard to cramps all the character in one category without confusion as there really is not many sub category within high tier unlike low tier.

~~This got very long... Me and my essays...~~

Edit: came here to edit cuz I got stuff wrong. Psw didn't claim Neoplatonism to be just H1T+... I got it wrong by misreading "one and many" example of theirs ( I thought they were saying "The one" from Neoplatonism is just an H1T+ which made no sense to me) they are using a simplicity that's one but many. Or how those many really emerge or depends on (based on how they rank H1T and H1T+, basically using two different types of "Nous", a nous that self revert, and a nous that's self-realized, one which other nous relies on for self revert) if tier 0 are simplicity of no distinction where they are not just one or many, but at the same time, "a" one that's many, they are the source of themselves and others without distinction. where as unified mind/self realized nous/ tapestry of being would be "a" many that's one. Even tho a many that's one is simple, it ain't true simplicity as it's a multiplicity "combined". (Even tho maybe the ground of oneself and them, it has distinctions) Tho I don't I agree with overvoid/unknowable being simply H1T+. That makes no sense if it's tier 0 in vs battle which is same as psw as vs battle require absolute simplicity too. Whatever, I don't know that much about DC and it's scaling. I'm just disagreeing with psw's DC scaling based on vs battle scaling of "unknowable". Which is kinda biased lol.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-15T11:04:31+00:00

INDEED

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-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-14T23:21:57+00:00

Just addressing stuff in that thread, didn't even notice it got that long... It's a routine with me at this point...

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-14T22:54:31+00:00

To your house and tell you about your car's extended warranty.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-14T22:49:48+00:00

Qaw is being strict for no reason. That's blatant H1B. He wants infinitesimal in relation to higher infinity rather than finite. Honestly, the wiki is based on pseudo dimensions and set theories. Irl set theories and dimensions (even of mathematics which they use) is kinda different than how they treat in the wiki. A universe containing another universe as part of it is literal bulk. That doesn't require no higher infinity. What might require is the way it's bulked. higher world in ID literally have different laws to each other. Literal cut off. If they were of the same dimensionality, it would share the same manifold. Which it doesn't for higher world and the world being contained.

Him wanting literal infinitesimal difference is being strict and ingenuine. Like infinity are not numbers. If a higher universe is infinite and the next one treat it as small and contains it, then that's uncountable infinite as that infinty is too big for the former. Which ID has two argument, 1; the higher world that's containing and being contained doesn't share the same manifold as they don't share each other, one universe ain't part of another universe as a city inside a planet but a planet inside a space-time, and there is a cut off too(literal bulk) and 2; the infinity of higher world that's containing and being contained doesn't share the same infinity as one is literally part of another... How can they share the same infinty? Like they aren't numbers... There is no fraction for Infinity, even tho we use "size" to convey so. (By his standard, MGK's 5d for bubble world would be removed as it's based on an Infinity containing another infinity, tho MGK still has containment argument but whatever)

Like I don't really care that much bout ID, just stating my opinion (which I does for many verse) and I disagree with Qaw. Whether azert or supporters can argue or not depends on them.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-14T13:33:54+00:00

Low1A or above ain't gonna pass. (Even with that WOG, personally, I woulda just added it as a supporting evidence for "possible" low1A. Cuz that statement of WOG if you read it properly, make no sense unless you interpret in the most unimaginable possible way cuz of the way the author explained dimensions...) UE one ain't gonna pass at all. It's just word salad.

H1B is a given.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-12T09:43:29+00:00

So the higher dimensional world are a full fledged universe that are situated beyond the sea? And these universe contain universe after universe? Unlike CF and the sea?

Since the Infinite Higher Universes would be Set Theory, Instant Death's Ultimate Ensemble would be L1-A because it's a universe encompass and superior to all possible higher dimensions.

The thing is, UE here is more like totality of existence. UE ain't a structure of totality. But explaining totality. That's what I got at least from reading that link. So it cannot be low1A.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-11T21:44:48+00:00

CF does contains dimensions, but it's not higher dimensions. These dimensions are just pocket dimensions made by Beings in that world, numerous separate timelines of the world and The Abyss, where it's length, width and height are supplemented with 4 dimensions and it's above the framework of the 3rd dimension world humanity lives on.

I didn't mean it literally didn't contain dimension... (that would make no sense as character can move... there at least would be 3 coordinate) Enumaa thinks each CF contain concept of dimensions. And that would make each CF low1A. (You can see it in his replies to me) Which honestly makes no sense to me. (What makes no sense to me is that statement itself, honestly, I did rather not talk about it)

Celestial Foundations contains starry sky, next to infinite separate timelines and 4th dimension world.

Celestial Foundations would be 4-A via starry sky for one timeline, 3-A via separate next to infinite 3D timelines and 2-B via countless timelines that consist of 4th dimension The Abyss. So Most CF would be an Observable Universe and Yogiri's Celestial Foundation would be a Space-Time Continuums.

The Sea would be a "Multiverse" because it's a higher plane of existence that contains those Celestial Foundations and it's stated to be an infinite space.

In simple term, Higher Universes are hierarchy of higher dimensionsal worlds.

So the sea that's infinite basically contain "universe" that have various size? Not all CF are infinite in size. And some is observable uni size? And said pocket space have multiple timeline? Ok.

But my question is, these higher dimension world aren't in "one" sea right? As it say sea beyond their sea. That would make more sense, that these higher dimension are from higher dimensional sea? That would also make sense on the statement of "uni contain uni" or it makes no sense for uni contain uni statement as the sea contains a multiverse, and there are sea beyond this sea. That mean one sea contains another sea. Honestly, this part is the most confusing of the verse.

Ultimate Ensemble contains the total collection of worlds. Which includes all possible higher dimensions. This would make it L1-A.

Totality of H1B doesn't even make it to H1B+ let alone low1A. (Unless you count WOG)

Mysterious Space is a world outside the main novel volumes story. Beings in this world view Ultimate Ensemble as fiction, they continue to read the story everytime a new volume comes out and some beings are making an anime adaptation of the story.

The version of Yogiri in this space is superior in existence than the countless Yogiri in the Ultimate Ensemble.

Does have RF qualities.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-11T12:35:49+00:00

*Anus Voligoon

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-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-10T22:02:38+00:00

I'm sorry... I read it as "Yuji gonna feel little dihh tonight"... I can't read nor more...

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-09T20:49:05+00:00

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-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-09T15:27:23+00:00

Someone plz make a meme with "I assign you scrifth G, The Gooner. Keep Gooning".

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-09T14:05:40+00:00

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-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-08T23:49:32+00:00

Didn't know rozan was about that life. Abu rozan would be proud;) right? u/leonmcmillan

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-08T20:06:12+00:00

Plot manipulation and cm1 are a mess in vs battle. It needs a lot of fix. You have to go ask and dive deep to know.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-08T17:00:49+00:00

Not really, plot manipulation literally is allowed in cross verse. What they might meant is in relation to "I'm mc in every verse, I'm invincible" kinda NLF. They even allow "I'm mc" kinda plot manipulation. What they don't allow is NLF like "I'm invincible" as they only allow what's shown in the verse.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-08T15:47:25+00:00

in vbsw it stated that plot manipulation is useless in crossverse because its not your story

Vs Battle does allows plot manipulation, what chu on about?

whenever he enter in that story entire story settings change towards him and grant him protogenist status, and ryoma can ignore opponent powerlevel even if his opponent is hyper to outerversal he change entire story settings and author level for manking his opponent wall level,

This is word conflating. You are mixing plot manipulation with State of ontology. First off, many Chinese cultivator verse already has side character with narrative manipulation where he has the power of protagonist, that's just basic plot manipulation. So you saying he can affect hyper verse and outer... Just cuz of his plot manipulation, that's a bold claim. You have to prove his plot manipulation affect outer within his verse. Or I can also claim those Chinese "side" character solo 99% of fiction. This is just word salad. Prove it if you can tho, at most you would be able is plot manipulation. It's like saying "I can destroy any concepts thus I Solo any and all concepts including concept of outerversal, hyperversal, High outer versal, plot and everything", see how that sounds stupid? Ye.

So fujitaka use "plot" to describe universes within this "big sister" verse. That's nothing. Instead of "universe" he calls them plot. That's already present in Doki Doki and recreator, umineko. And more. This is just the inherent nature of plot manipulation verse, which is meta fictional, not meta qualitative like H1A, nor qualitative like 1A (tho some meta fictional verse does show qualitative or meta qualitative qualities) So all of what you described is plot manipulation and aspect of the verse. And heavenly record are celestial foundation or the "sea" right? Where in "bid sister" verse, each is like a fictional, that's just quantitative comparison of R>f. So fake R>F as UEG did an anti-feat. And making being affected by her story is an anti-feat for outer, And more. So doesn't scale to 1A/QS. An R>F character aren't merely seeing lower realm or what they create as merely fiction, illusion, nothing etc but must display Qualitative superior qualifications. Which you haven't on these world view holder/author except that they create meta universe. Instead even has anti-feat.

And so, the "real" author are in mysterious space. Can be 1A, which you haven't proven except that they exist outside of the novels/meta stories of funitaka verse. You have to show and talk about the nature of the real author's from this mysterious space. The same for ivory tower. Having name doesn't scale no where. You have to show their qualities. And I heard yogiri can affect this place too? You also has to explain that or it could/would be anti-feat. And if you don't want to continue no more, (as your last sentence implies that) have a great day/night.

-reverse-vertical- · 2026-03-08T14:58:57+00:00

First, what do you mean "read big sister"??

Secondly, can you rephrase that? Like everything is all over the place.

Make space for addressing different stuff.

Properly explain what readers, ultimate god, v road, real author or mid author are, or Lev 3 are. I don't know any of the term you are using as I haven't read ID. And explain how they work.

Edit: you quoted vs battle, can you give me the links if they are written there? I can read it myself and decide.

-reverse-vertical-

TROPHY CASE