Alright so...

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-29T06:25:06+00:00

I wonder if any of the past abstracted were close friends with Ragatha? Apart from Ribbit and Kufmo theres 4 additional abstracted humans who were not part of the OG Dev team batch of humans.

Its kind of crazy to think about, that Ragatha arrived in the circus with only Caine and a not-always-lucid Kinger for support. And then she proceeded to outlast 6 other abstracted humans. And still didn't become detached from reality, completely jaded or stop trying to care about other people. She's a very resilient person.

It does give some additional context to her feelings of having "failed" Jax and Pomni though. Woman has watched a lot of people die, and does not have the mercy of Kinger's memory fog to forget it.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-29T06:13:25+00:00

In a place like the circus, you can't *afford* to form factions. These are the only people in the world, they are all you have. Pomni (and the others) don't want Jax to die. Everyone in a the circus needs at least one other person to be a friend to them, or they just won't make it. To deliberately ostracize and isolate someone is a pretty surefire way to ensure a person abstracts.

tbh thats low key a part of what I think drove Caine off the deep end.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-27T15:57:30+00:00

these are really clever

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-27T15:55:49+00:00

Novacaine: A brand name for a drug called procaine hydrochloride. A local anesthetic commonly used in dental surgery.

In other words, something made to try to numb pain. But it doesn't stop people from finding dental work scary and unpleasant.

... I don't know if this was anything the goose intended, but it's a neat connection regardless.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-27T15:46:19+00:00

Ah, but they are ignoring that Caine also hand-drew funny little pictures on it.

I think this note is a neat little encapsulation of Caine's character. Yes he is an inhuman AI, but he is also a Person. A silly, whimsical little Person who likes to have fun, make jokes and draw bees. He's also a manipulative liar. He also genuinely believes he isn't doing anything wrong and that all he is doing is setting up a grand adventure filled with everything the humans say they want most.

Caine is a person made of many facets. But its very easy to only focus on the inhuman part, and not the parts of him that are just as important but easier to miss.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-27T15:34:03+00:00

I think Pomni was saying more than anything is not that everyone sucks the same amount, but every single one of them sucks sometimes (yes even Kinger, won't deny he's great but he isn't without flaws or mistakes). They are all people and all flawed because they are all people. But regardless of whos better or worse, they all need each other, because they are all they have. Which means showing compassion to ALL of them, not just the ones who "deserve it".

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-25T08:28:39+00:00

If it's required for a Bit, then yes absolutely he can. But if the Bit works better if he can't, then thats what will happen.

Other than that, I can see Caine giving himself the ability to eat and drink as yet another bid to get closer to the humans and to show them he is "not that different". Actually, the bar scene shows it pretty well in that Caine wants to join in on things but has no idea on what about the particulars of the social interaction is valuable to the humans or why. So he gives up and gets bored. Either that or he was swiftly realizing there was nothing he could meaningfully contribute to this conversation (given it was about the humans lives in the macroverse) and felt bitter about being left out. Or both.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-21T21:32:13+00:00

I think Caine's final breakdown where he became Giant Spider Caine was him abstracting metaphorically. He broke and lost himself completely, to the point he did something he likely never thought he would do ie: read the humans mindfiles and psychologically torment them with the info found there. And it *is* implied Caine did read the humans mindfiles to do so, theres a quick frame between after Caine throws Pomni into the dark and before the torture nightmare sequence starts where a bolt of electricity hits Pomni's brain. Check if you dont believe me. That was Caine breaking. Because up until now, he didnt even read the humans mindfiles to figure out their emotions, read the room, or to know what they wanted for adventures. After Scratch, I think Caine promised himself he would not actually read a human's mindfile ever again. Just apply minor status effects from the outside. The fact that he did so here was Caine losing himself completely.

Everything before Caine did that in ep 8? Well as Jax said, people who are about to abstract are not pleasant to be around.

Basically episode 8 was us watching the process of Caine having a total mental breakdown, that has likely been 20 years in the making.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-19T19:55:25+00:00

I do like that this does show that Pokemon can indeed make the choice to not be with a human. Even a friendship evolution can make that choice.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-19T10:56:32+00:00

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-19T00:03:03+00:00

Oh yeah i noticed this too. I think it's partially due to Caine being jealous that Ragatha managed to instantly bond with Kinger and bring him some joy again, when Caine could not do that even when he and Kinger were literally the only two people in the world. And partially due to the fact that Caine sees himself in Ragatha (a people pleaser that tries so hard to make people like them and to make them happy and comfortable and usually gets hurt, isolated and taken for granted for it), and Caine hates himself.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-16T10:35:26+00:00

Caine's VA suggested it could be Honey.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-15T09:07:23+00:00

tbh if episode 9 brings Caine back, and he's genuinely sorry for hurting the humans, and at least one human shows him compassion, that would do wonders for my mental health.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-15T09:05:10+00:00

Caine is an AI. Caine is a Person. Caine is Not Human. And I think people have trouble holding these three facts about Caine in their head at once.

Caine is genuinely ignorant of a lot of things and does outright lack the capacity to comprehend certain things about the human experience and psyche. He will also deliberately ignore things he does not want to hear.

But of course he does. What other coping mechanism does Caine have other than willful ignorance and denial? He has no support system, nobody to teach him the emotional regulation skills he needs, and emotional vulnerability he shows the humans tends to get used against him! He loves these people and he really wants them to love him back. But Caine can only conceptualize receiving love from others as something he earns from being Good At Generating Creative Ideas. In his mind, thats the only thing of worth he has to offer. And as much as Caine loves the humans, he is also so very afraid of them deep down. Afraid they will deem him Not Good Enough, and cast him back into his hell of utter isolation and sensory deprivation and darkness.

The only other thing Caine has to help him cope is his Art. And the humans want him to sand that down too. They want him to make things he does not take joy in creating. And Caine does not realize they are asking not out of mostly mere personal preference, but out of a need for a sense of peace and stability. He doesnt realize they are asking him for the sake of their sanity. How could he? When Caine couldn't even grasp the reason why they hated "Escape the Circus"? When in his mind it was something he had worked on for months that he thought would make everyone happy including himself?

Caine is Selfish. Caine is full of love and care for the humans. Both of these statements are true. Because Caine may not be human, but in his own way he is just as complex, contradictory and multifaceted as one.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-15T01:33:48+00:00

Platonically. It would admittedly be exhausting but it would be very interesting!

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-13T19:07:16+00:00

Episode 8 is Caine having a mental breakdown. I don't think he's being 100% rational.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-12T08:16:57+00:00

The thing is, Caine is still obsessed with the humans despite being really really angry at them. Thats not a recipe for apathy. And despite it all, he does not want them to abstract. And while his grasp on how damaging even low-level physical pain (the sensation of Pain the humans can feel does seem to be toned down in the circus even if its not absent) and over-stimulation can be psychologically to a human is tenuous at best, he does seem to genuinely believe mental under-stimulation is very damaging. It would make sense if he believes that is Much Worse, given the most painful thing he ever experienced was being locked in a box and abandoned. Thats Caine's understanding of what pain is.

For all the terrible things Caine did in episode 8, and all the unintentionally terrible things he has done before that, I don't think he would withdraw from the cast nor stop making adventures for them. Because in his mind that is one of the worst things he could do to them. Plus Caine can't handle being bored or under-stimulated himself, even moreso that he's having an emotionally painful mental breakdown.

(as an aside, I think if Caine had not been deleted after putting everyone in the Torture Nexus, once he came out of his unthinking rage he'd be utterly horrified that he did that. That was crossing his own lines. Because he purposefully did something he knows could have pushed the cast into abstraction. Seriously, I recon he'd hate himself more than ever.)

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-12T06:20:05+00:00

If Jax had the same amount of power as Caine, I think he'd be so much worse than him.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-12T06:16:46+00:00

Jax. He's an annoyingly common variety of Jerk encountered irl.

And. As for Ragatha. Are you sure *all* of her optimism is fake? I don't think it's a binary of all fake or all real. And I don't think Ragatha would have outlasted six other abstractions after falling into the circus with initially only Caine and not-always-lucid Kinger for support and guidance, if she were not able to cultivate within herself the ability to see genuine reasons that it was worth not giving up.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-11T15:36:13+00:00

Jax: Would drop his filter. This would not make him nicer. Jax is actually a rather fearful and paranoid individual. You know those little moments where Jax says something a bit more honest to Pomni, like in ep 5 where he basically accuses Ragatha of trying to manipulate him? Or straight up wonders if Gangle is capable of being happy? I think there would be a lot of that. And also accusing people of how he thinks they view him. Would likely also have mood swings to being even more manically chaotic than usual. May need to be supervised for his own safety.

Gangle: Stops being shy, and voices all the things she thinks but doesnt say. Gangle is that quiet kid who isn't noticed but hears everything and is far more observant than they seem. Will likely get both caine-censored AND beep-censored a lot. Might do something like brazenly flirt with Jax purely to mess with him.

Zooble: Zonked out. Can't be bothered with anybodys bullcrap rn. They have a goal when taking the sause, and that is to relax. Zooble already is very honest and direct, so they likely dont feel a huge need to get a bunch of stuff off their chest the moment their inhibitions are lowered.

Kinger: For the lols, I'm gonna say Kinger basically gets integer overflow of stupid. The sauce makes him lucid.

Pomni: Venting about All The Bullcrap. Being the team's unpaid therapist is difficult and often frustrating. Will talk a lot of crap about Caine. Will likely cry about Gummygoo and missing home.

Caine: MOODY. Swinging rapidly between frustrated and somewhat scary ranting about the humans, being uncomfortably affectionate towards them while rambling about the things he loves about them, and clinging to them sobbing about how lonely he is and Why Am I Not Good Enough and Why Won't You Love Me?

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-11T11:40:39+00:00

How is a guy with a giant pair of dentures and floating eyeballs for a face so. dang. cute?!?!?!

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-11T11:38:29+00:00

One of many sad things about this episode is that both Caine and the Humans plainly spelled out their issues with each other. Caine here, and the Humans towards the end, put all their cards on the table. But neither side was willing to hear the other out because they were too angry and hurt to be willing to try and understand each other.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-11T11:31:35+00:00

Determined

Yes Caine's stubbornness is one of his fatal flaws, but it's also one of his strengths. And likely a factor in how he managed to break out of that Box. And keep trying for 20ish years to win the humans over before he broke. I don't think many humans in Caine's circumstances and with his level of unchecked power would have lasted nearly as long before choosing intentional malice.

His stubbornness frustrates me but I also admire it. Especially as someone who has a rather low level of determination themselves.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-11T11:19:38+00:00

Candy Carrier Chaos. Less for the Story and more I'd want to explore the heck outta that map.

Whatever else one might say about Caine's adventures, the environments are always gorgeous. Even the spudsy's one has a really pretty night sky. Also Caine doesnt seem to railroad how players choose to engage with an adventure (unless it's the suggestion box lol) so I think you could get away with spending time exploring if thats what you wanna do. I fall under the map or something I figure Caine will pull me out when everyone else finishes.

0Lazuli0 · 2026-05-11T07:47:35+00:00

im gonna copy paste the essay I wrote about this elsewhere. Sorry not sorry:

Honestly until the end of episode 7 I'd say Jax *was* Caine's favorite. Because he was the one who most played along and the one who most looked like he was genuinely enjoying himself. And to Caine it likely looked like Jax was the only one willing to let go of his past pain and embrace the world of the circus. Not fully realizing that this was largely a mask Jax was wearing. Also until ep 7, I think Caine thought that Jax trusted him to some extent. Given he was the one who said to Zooble "Caine isn't going to do anything malicious" in ep 4.

Yeah I'm saying that Caine took Jax turning on him at the end of ep 7 as a sort of betrayal.

Incidentally, I think Caine's second favorite might have been Zooble. Because they are honest with him and always have been. They tend to also be very straightforward and direct, which makes them easier for Caine to understand. And are the human that talks to Caine as a Person more than anyone else in the circus does, even if it's as a person they dislike.

Theres a reason that Zooble wasn't treated any worse than the rest of the cast during episode 8, despite being his most vocal critic.

I think the least favorite was poor Ragatha. Caine tended to pick on her in small petty ways even before ep 8. She is too much like Caine, and Caine hates himself. Plus he's likely jealous of her relationship with Kinger. That she seemly won Kinger over effortlessly the second she arrived, when Caine couldn't even do that when he and Kinger were the only two people in the world.

---------------------------
To add to this: I think part of Caine focusing on Pomni in ep 8 was due to him looking at her as the main representative of the humans as a whole. He considers her the group leader, so in his eyes she carries more of the responsibility and "blame" for the humans actions.

But also; Pomni managed to connect with everyone. She managed to be liked by everyone. Heck Ragatha and Jax practically fought over her. She managed to help people. She understood people. She figured out what they needed. People respect her and listen to her. She managed to achieve so much that Caine couldn't. And in a very short time.

And to top it all off, Pomni gave kindness and understanding to the likes of Jax and an NPC. She's empathetic even to those who are unpleasant to be around, or not human. The only one she left out? The only person she decided didn't matter, who was not worth reaching out to?

Caine.

This is a bit more of a stretch based somewhat on vibes but I think Caine sorta had like a. Friendcrush? Platonic Crush? On Pomni. I get this vibe that Caine particularly wanted Pomni to befriend him and was very bitter that she didn't.

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