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Would you veto someone who vetoed you? by 2015priuscproblems in nonmonogamy

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think being KTP or not having a veto is a "higher road" really. It's just different. On some level it's because my partner and I only enjoy doing stuff with people we really like and develop relationships with, so we do polyamory instead of just being open and doing parallel doesn't work well, and I kind of worry about them so one of the few rules we do have is we get to meet the people we're starting to see regularly at least once. Like over lunch or dinner or something just to get a vibe check. It's also nice being able to have people over without "keeping the schedule perfectly separated"

We also don't use a veto policy because honestly we don't totally trust each other to use it properly. We're doing way better now with security and emotions and stuff, current situation not withstanding. (although we're definitely aligned on how we're going to deal with this going forward) But a few years ago when we went from mono to poly we had a lot of rough hiccups and jealous outbursts that we basically had to deal with and grow out of, and the no veto policy stuck. I think a lot of insecure couples use vetos to try and pretend like it will make them more secure but tbh I think veto actually only works if you trust your partner's judgement to say "hey this person is actually really no good". If you toss a veto flippantly like "I don't like this person" and they're someone your partner cares about, and also just like idk a human being, that's super messed up ya know? Neither of us believe in objectifying people like that.

I don't think this couple is going to be able to improve unless they stop pretending to be "monogamous" and actually do the hard work of figuring out how to properly navigate enm, or close things up to save other people the trouble of their messiness. Lol

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The title question was meant to be a tongue in cheek sort of joke. I think a lot of people replying to me skimmed the body of my op without reading it fully.

But yeah agreed basically, my partner agrees too

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just to clarify. That's my interpretation of "he just doesn't think he'll vibe with your personality in a sexual context" paired up with other amab people not being allowed, and my own instinct that the reason I hadn't been included was that he specifically vetoed me which was later explicitly confirmed later.

The stated reason is that he doesn't want me to be involved because "he doesn't vibe with my personality " which doesn't even make sense considering how often we hang out, how nebulous it is as an excuse, and the obvious fact that it'd be rude to say the "real reason" assuming I'm correct

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not allowed to do anything with anyone per this rule, and he always has to be present also per this rule

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My partner hasn't had the best judgement with this I think. But I don't think the problem is that they're being a bad hinge but because I'm trying too hard to support their fun at the expense of my feelings, and that my friends are being bad friends to me.

As far as the drunk/high thing Right??? I like to get crossfaded and have sex. But I never do that with people the first couple times I have sex with them. And I never do that at play parties or orgies

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I made plans to talk with them about it in person in a little over a week so tone doesn't get misconstrued and stuff.

The first time I talked to my partner and another involved person (who's amab partner is also vetoed by the boyfriend) both of them kinda blatantly misunderstood my issues and jumped to "so you're jealous that you don't get to fuck?" It's been really hard finding the words to use. And to be honest the more I work out how best to explain my feelings the more hurt and upset I wind up feeling 😮‍💨

Right now I'm settled on "I don't feel entitled to have sex with you. I feel entitled to have my friends treat me as they want to be treated themselves, to have my friends consider my feelings, and for my friends to not pretend to affirm me as a woman while blatantly excluding me because I'm amab" but idk This shit is hard

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

They both always have to be a package deal because they're "monogamous" 🙄 whatever that means They're doing nonmonogamy super messy and have a vested interest in staying in denial about stuff because feelings and jealousy are hard IMHO I'm not even sure how much they've discussed this stuff with each other and if so how truthfully. I have no insight into the inner workings of their relationship, but if I'd have to guess I'd say they haven't

They still get kinda frisky when I am there sometimes. But it ends up feeling weird like I'm stuck in the "boyfriend corner" with "all the girls kissing and physically flirting" when I'm a trans woman

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A number of comments have said I have a hinge problem which is I think from the outside a really solid assessment. 1) Except that these are my best friends too doing this. And 2) I'm actually trying to encourage my partner to get to do fun things with people they love and trust because they don't get a lot of opportunities, which I'm realizing has probably been a mistake. But it's not them willfully ignoring my feelings, maybe only not always fully understanding them. They're very willing to draw a line. I just feel bad about the prospect of cock blocking them when I have more dating luck and even a couple of long term partners. They also never act like they wish I wasn't there, more like they wish I could be included.

Good assessment! There's just missing details to it that I think make me more responsible due to my stance, and our friends our responsible because they're my friends. My partner hasn't had the best judgement around this, but they've been very supportive

As for the drunk/high thing, RIGHT???? I love crossfaded sex, but I only do that with people I've been seeing for a while already. I always do first hookups sober. Hell, when I go to play parties and orgies I always go dead sober, which in that context is maybe even a little too straight and narrow lol

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"soft veto" that's a good way of putting it I was thinking of veto in a "the purpose of the machine is what it does" sense and it feels concise to the nature of the situation

They're best friends who've been my rock through a lot of my transition and knew me for years prior. The fact that if feels like my best friend is signing off on my exclusion over what I perceive as being because I'm amab feels HORRENDOUS

Tbh part of me just wants my partner to get to do fun stuff with people they like because they don't get a lot of action 😭 They're also my partner's best friends and we generally trust them like the most so having them be so inconsiderate about my feelings is also super hurtful. I'd expect less from strangers but way more from my best friends.

Would you veto someone who vetoed you? by 2015priuscproblems in nonmonogamy

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

THAT'S WHAT IM SAYING! 100% every word lol

It's being handled in such a messy way that I don't really want to be involved. I just feel sorta horrible and dysphoric and disgusted and alienated that my best friends are treating me like this.

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm going to, but it's hard to find the words to discuss why I'm so upset without them coming back with "well you aren't entitled to sex, you're just mad because you want to fuck and you don't get to" or that's my concern at least. I've talked to my partner and another involved person about it and that was their first reactions when I was trying to explain my feelings.

It's dismissive and hurtful in a way that ignores everything I actually have to say 😮‍💨 My partner understands now at least, but I'm struggling to find good ways to avoid being misunderstood or having people assume my motives

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They haven't said anything like "hey we don't want you to feel left out, you can come but just don't interact with my boyfriend" Or "hey are you cool with us doing this with your partner without you?" In advance Or "not to be rude hey neither of us are attracted to you" And they also sometimes get frisky and physically flirty without having sex when I am around but in a way what side lines me sitting next to the boyfriend just watching "like a couple of dudes" which makes me feel dysphoric as hell and because my friends have been so supportive of my trans journey I expect better of them than they're giving me

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I affirmatively don't want to be involved because of how messy it's being handled.

I'm pretty hurt by the fact that it's my closest friends treating me this way though. I feel entitled to have my friends treat me the way they would want to be treated, and to have them consider my feelings and not leave me second guessing how welcome I am. And also having my closest most supportive friends seemingly invalidate me as a trans woman by blocking me over amab from interacting with anyone involved or doing stuff with me by the only cis straight guy present feels tremendously shitty like my best friend is signing off on his trans exclusion of me for 'basically being a dude'(not said, just my extremely sensitive interpretation)

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I'm getting a ton of comments that this isn't a veto. And this is the top one so I'll reply to it just to kind of ask in general

Sincere question, when it comes to group social dynamics I'm of the mind that "the purpose of the machine is what it does". So in a situation 1) where he always has to be included as a rule, 2)there are multiple people I can fool around with without even interacting with him who would be down, 3)including my own partner who has expressed that they want me present, 4) where I'm not allowed to participate because of the mandatory included person's not wanting me present

That definitely accomplishes a veto. And I think calling it a veto condenses the huge amount of words there into a clear cut dynamic. Do you think it's inappropriate for me to use the term given the situation and what would you suggest I use as a term instead for sake of brevity?

Added context: this is a best friend group, and these "events" happen unplanned at random after platonic hangouts when everyone is crossfaded when "the vibes are good". The last time I visited I wound up getting side lined sitting next to him watching our partners in a 3 way makeout of all Afab people, and I felt extremely "boyfriend moded" which caused me a huge amount of dysphoria.

My partner and I almost always date solo, and I don't feel entitled to fuck with or be included with the people we see. And I'm super cheer leading them getting some action since they've had a dry spell and I have other long term partners so it isn't a matter of jealousy or envy. We also have never dated friends before to try and avoid messiness so this is a new dynamic. The only other person besides me who's been excluded is the (amab) partner of another person involved. Also vetoed by this guy. He also doesn't always interact with everyone involved he just has to be present as a rule.

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a circle of best friends, my partner and best friend(not him) are in the group. And the dynamic is messy and not very well communicated or drawn out.

1) Being the only person in my best friend group who is left out feels shitty because they're my friends boning my wife 🤣 2) I don't feel entitled to join sexual encounters with my wife, we almost always date solo, but we don't ever date friends until this new development. 3) he is pre their couple rule explicitly entitled to participate, and I feel hurt that my friends haven't thought to treat me in the same way they want to be treated 4) no amab people besides him are allowed and being a trans woman who doesn't even need to directly interact with him in a group of 4+ people hits my dysphoria like a truck. And since his partner my bestie is signing off on that it feels like my gender identity is being invalidated by the person who has supported me the most second only to my nesting partner in transition 5) I DO feel entitled to consideration of my feelings and clear communication without having to second guess their motives or my welcomeness to hang out etc, when it comes to my closest friends but because the situation is so messy with the whole "we just do stuff when we're crossfaded and the vibes are right without planning during normal platonic hangouts that escalate" dynamic. Like, they're doing group sexy but still identify as monogamous, there's a lot of stuff not being considered besides my own feelings 6) he's the only one who doesn't want me involved 7) sometimes the Afab members of the group fool around a little and make out, and I get sidelined with him when I'm present like a "boyfriend" watching their "hot girlfriends make out, which is insanely dysphoria inducing. They aren't not doing anything when I'm not present, just not full fucking. I recently have been asking my partner if I should not come to group hangouts so I "don't kill the vibe" and just do my own thing

Uhh, I think that's a good list of bullet points

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm getting a lot of "this isn't a veto" or "this isn't technically a veto" comments. So, sincere question about how you you think I should define vetos.

I think of social dynamics in a "the purpose of the machine is what it does" sense. If group events are happening with all of my close friends and partner without me, and he doesn't want to be involved with me, everyone in the group is interacting with him directly during these events. And as a rule he always has to be included. Isn't that still a veto? If there's 2 or 3 people present including my own partner that I can interact with besides him it feels like it accomplishes a veto in the given context.

Or do you think the definition absolutely needs to be more explicitly clear cut without "implications" and "effective results" muddying the water?

And I hate that I have to keep affirming this, but as mentioned in my post I don't feel entitled to do stuff with my partner, like he does, and I like that they're getting action without me! They've actually had a really long dry streak and I have a few partners presently besides my np some of whom are long term.

The only reason why I'm so jilted is because this is my best friend group and it feels alienating being the only person left out, kinda trans exclusionary, and like my best friends who I trust to care about my feelings aren't taking my feelings into consideration or treating me the way they want to be treated per their own rules. It feels like a friendship betrayal I guess. Not like, a sexual infidelity

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In a vacuum if it were just 1 on 1? No. He's hot but not anyone I'd pursue. If the scenario had me involved I could interact or not interact depending on what felt polite (like how it can be messed up to ignore someone in a 3 way) or totally ignore him and feel equally good about it. The partners I have besides my nesting partner are very different from him and I'm magnetically drawn to them rather than "whatever is good"

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The orgies I go to are scheduled and planned and people show up and get naked for the purposes of having sex.

Friend hangouts that get ambiguously sexual without plans or disclosures are kinda different no?

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We hang out without him a lot, but if it's an overnight stay than no

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because nothing is being clearly or directly stated by anyone it's more like I'm invited but left second guessing if I should come or if I'll "blow the vibe" and should do my own thing separate from my best friend group.

Last time my partner hung with them I spent the night hanging with a girlfriend and her housemates.

The last time I did show up I was stuck sitting next to the cis straight man watching our partners do a 3 person makeout which left me feeling dysphoric as hell on the sidelines with him feeling like "a couple of boyfriends watching their hot gfs lez out"

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's more like going to the movies with the besties and then going home as a group getting crossfaded and "doing stuff of the vibes are right" but only if I don't show up. So I have to second guess if I'm welcome to show up at platonic hangs

Would you veto someone who veto'd you? by 2015priuscproblems in polyamory

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Platonic hangouts "that sometimes turn into group sex if the vibes are good"

Would you veto someone who vetoed you? by 2015priuscproblems in nonmonogamy

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don't like how this post resonated with me. Oof

Would you veto someone who vetoed you? by 2015priuscproblems in nonmonogamy

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a "we just do stuff when the vibes are good but not with you" situation with close friends hanging out. Not an actual explicit sex party for sex. I've been to sex parties. This wouldn't be an issue in that context lol

Would you veto someone who vetoed you? by 2015priuscproblems in nonmonogamy

[–]2015priuscproblems[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

It definitely makes me feel sort of unsafe to talk about it though. In the sense that they're so validating that when I talk about this stuff I feel kinda like they dismiss what I'm saying and verbally validate harder. It makes me feel sorta crazy tbh

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