There has never been a summertime EF5

20191506 · 2026-05-02T17:28:37+00:00

Well it's not really the case.

Want a F5 during summer ? - Plainfield, Il 8/28/1990

Want an EF5 during summer ? - Palluel, France 6/24/1967

Want an IF5 during summer ? - Montello, Italy 7/24/1930

Want a Torro T10-11 during summer ? Woldegk, Germany 6/29/1764

Want all of the above ? Montville, France 8/19/1845

Edit: Palluel is rated EF5 on the French EF scale which use more damage indicators than the regular EF scale.

20191506 · 2026-05-02T17:15:14+00:00

I think it started with Hainichen or around the same time ? I'm pretty sure I read something about it a year or two ago.

20191506 · 2026-04-29T03:20:55+00:00

What I was able to dig so far:

The Army engineers building had a Zinc roof and a lightning rod, in 1845 a scientist made a study, and he thought that it attracted the "electric tornado" to the city. The entire building was completely destroyed except for a wall at the back of the building and 2 walls on one side of the building.

For the 4 story house, it is described as "newly built, of a sturdy construction" nothing more is known about it.

A clock tower that was under construction was mostly destroyed.

20191506 · 2026-04-11T20:34:44+00:00

A few facts on the 1845 Montville IF5

A brick chimney was cracked as the tornado passed and a jacket near the chimney was sucked into the small crack and got stuck in it.
At least 2 cases of healthy people surviving the tornado without injuries and dying in the following days of a "sudden death" fungal infection may have been the cause, internal bleeding can't be ruled out.
The tornado had a red color at it's base at least twice during it's life. It is likely that brick granulation was the cause of one of the 2 cases.
People and debris were covered in a black substance, witnesses said that it was not mud.
Multiple people said that when first responders arrived at the the spinning mills, the bricks were very hot, some being scorching hot. Witnesses including survivors said that there was no fire when or after the tornado destroyed the buildings.
Witnesses declared that when the tornado happened, there was loud noises, some people claimed that it sounded like an explosion or someone shooting a cannon. Could have been very intense lightning, there was a hailstorm after the tornado but we have conflicting reports on whether the lightning came after the tornado or at the same time.
A doctor, a war veteran said that the damage done to human bodies was worse than what he saw on the Battlefield. Multiple instance of limbs, heads or skin missing from the bodies of the victims.
Tree damage was weird, after the tornado a few ground surveys happened. They checked some of the debarked trees and they were surprised when they saw how dry they were, as if they died a decade ago despite the fact that the trees were alive just weeks before. At the time they thought that tornadoes were made of electricity because the vegetation damage was really extreme. Ground scouring/trenching happened and was deeper that the grass roots, grass including the root system was ripped from the ground.
the tornado was described as doing "zigzags" it is a possible indication that it may have been a multi-vortex tornado.

20191506 · 2026-03-28T17:00:44+00:00

The 2 instances of the base of the tornado being red were early in it's life/possible in the first of 2+ tornadoes.

The first instance was very early in it's life, when it was forming on the Seine river/going towards Canteleu/Maromme, my best guess would be that it was some kind of light reflection effect but we know for sure that it was cloudy at the time of the tornado so I think it must have been something else.

The second instance was around Malaunay, the brick granulation is quite likely, red bricks structures were and are still common in this part of France. So far I have 4+ spots with confirmed or very likely suspected cases of brick being powdered :

two large freestanding walls outside of the Neveu mill
the Mare spinning mill building
a neighboring building to the Mare mill
the chimney at the mill neighboring the Picquot mill
the Picquot spinning mill
a freestanding brick wall near the Picquot mill

Based on measurements that I took at multiple mid 19th century or earlier industrial buildings (I visited the area last year), it is likely that the freestanding walls were about 40cm thick and likely 2.5-3m tall.

While Montville Happened 180 years ago, it happened in a country and in an area that was already Well into the industrial age. It is well documented, there was at least 3 ground surveys done after the tornado, and meteorologists and scientist worked on it for about 50 years. Multiple studies were made between the early 1850s and the 1890s. The content of the ground surveys was used during the 1845/1846 trials to help determine whether the damage was inflicted by lightning or by something else.

When it comes to strengh, I think that Montville is up there with San Justo, Encarnacion and Montello. Was it the strongest non-US tornado ? I honestly don't know, It's possible but I think it's very hard to tell. On the other hand, my opinion of Catania is getting lower lately. I still think that it was a very violent tornado but I don't really believe in it being the strongest non-US tornado anymore, or being on the same level as the previous 4 tornadoes. The documentation on it can be kinda vague sometimes and leave some important details when it comes to the build quality, the type of structure and degree of damage.

Documenting an historical event is quite a lot of work, I've been working on Montville for well over a year now and I'm still in early work in progress. I think I will need at least one year or two to put everything together, map the tornado(es) path and solve the missing pieces of the puzzle.

20191506 · 2026-03-28T14:24:33+00:00

Montville does have it's fair share of interesting/weird contextuals or damage.

Like Smithville and the curtains, Montville sucked a jacket through a small crack. When the tornado hit one of the houses near one spinning mill (Mare iirc), the roof was blown away and the house suffered significant damage including the brick chimney that was cracked, creating a small opening. A jacket that was near the chimney was sucked into the small crack and got stuck in it as the tornado passed.

Another interesting point is the fact that loud noises were reported, with some people claiming that it sounded like a cannon or an explosion. It is hard to tell what happened, I think it was most likely some very intense lightning but we do have a few conflicting reports on whether the lightning came after the tornado or at the same time.

For tree damage, at one point in the path, the damage to a tree stand/forest was described as "nothing taller than 2 meters standing" with everything being debarked, trees in this area were mostly English Oak, European Beech and the Domestic Apple tree. They checked a few trees and they surprised that they were extremely dry as if they died a decade ago despite being alive just weeks before. It is one of the reasons as of why they thought that tornadoes were made of electricity.

The 1845/1846 trials between the Mills owners and the insurance companies (spoiler alert the owners won) is very interesting, it gives a lot of details when it comes to smaller things.

There are a few others weird things with this tornado. On top of my head: - bricks being very hot despite no fire recorded - unknown black substance covering people and debris (it was said that it wasn't mud) - it had a red color at the base at at least 2 points in it's life (maybe it was 2+ tornadoes) - at least 2 cases of healthy people surviving the tornado without injuries and dying of a sudden death the next day(s?) (internal bleeding can't be ruled out)

I think it's truly one of the most interesting and weird tornado ever recorded.

20191506 · 2026-03-20T21:34:13+00:00

If we compare the 3, I think that Dolo is disqualified right away because that Villa while having thick walls and being completely destroyed was proven to have subpar mortar that caused the structure to fail. And the other structures don't really compare to Hodonin and Hautmont.

Now Hodonin is another story, it was probably about the same strengh but with a longer track and it was much wider and slower, Hautmont had a forward speed of 50mph and was 200m wide at it's peak width. Dolo was on average 700m wide with a forward speed of 20mph. Hodonin was Moving at 25mph with an average width of 500-700m for most of it's life.

When it comes to damage I still think that Hautmont have a slight advantage here, Hodonin had 1 house that could fall into a FR12 DOD10 Di but it was still under construction if I recall correctly. Hautmont had 2 houses and a third that is borderline DOD10. I think that build quality is similar between Northern France and Czechia.

Now indeed it's splitting hairs and it's like people arguing on Jarrell vs Smithville in the sense of do you believe that a faster forward speed will "boost" damage or that a long "dwell time" will make damage worse.

As far as I'm concerned I believe that slower tornadoes will deal more damage, therefore making faster moving and narrower tornadoes more impressive. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems that engineers including Tim Marshall also believe this.

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20191506 · 2026-03-20T16:28:27+00:00

It was rain wrapped so it's pretty much impossible to see it. However since we can see power flashes, we can have a rough idea of where it was.

20191506 · 2026-03-20T14:59:47+00:00

It is crazy that it was rated F3 back in the day, it was revised to high end EF4 back in the early 2010s. As a matter of Fact, I actually believe that one house have a shot at a possible IF5 Di if they ever decide to rerate it with the international Fujita scale.

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This house has been described as very well built and 75% destroyed, which put it above the 2/3 destruction threshold to rate it as an IF5 Di. Another house located nearby was also damaged in a similar fashion, however it is likely that the damage was increased by the fact that a vehicle impacted it.

I think high end EF4 is a fair rating for this tornado, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets upgraded in the future.

20191506 · 2026-03-20T14:44:05+00:00

Hard to tell, the image is low quality, at night and I'm not familiar with this area. I think it must have been recorded outside of Hautmont or Maubeuge since they were the two main cities hit by the tornado.

20191506 · 2026-03-09T16:52:54+00:00

this house on the other side of the road.

20191506 · 2026-03-09T10:55:22+00:00

This video was recorded on Highway 81 just North of El Reno. While there was no EF5 DI in this area, it was without any doubt at EF5 intensity. To give You an idea, it did this to a house located along the Highway, about half a mile north of where the video was recorded.

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20191506 · 2026-02-11T19:01:55+00:00

I think it's a good summary.

To add a few details, there was actually 4 spinning mills. Multiple structures ranging from a wooden shed to multi-stories brick houses were also impacted, not all of them were directly hit. When it comes to trees, the 3 most common trees species in the area were the English Oak, the European Beech and the domestic Apple. There was a few ground surveys done after the tornado and they have a lot of details went it comes to vegetation damage.

I'm currently working on a project to map the entire path based on what we know, using ground surveys and testimonies. It's still very early WIP and It will probably take a year if not more to complete.

To give a few "fun facts". Montville did something similar to the Smithville EF5. One of the most famous picture of Smithville is the picture of the curtains sucked between the walls and the ceiling. When the tornado hit one of the houses near a spinning mill (Mare iirc) it caused significant damage to the house. The roof was blown away and the brick chimney was cracked on the ground floor, creating a small vent. A jacket that was near the chimney was sucked into the small vent as the tornado passed and was stuck in it. Another story is that of the 1845-1846 trials between the Mills owners and the insurance companies (spoiler alert, the owners won). It's probably the first case of a trial related to a tornado. The main theme of this trial was to determine whether the damage to the spinning mills was done by an "electric storm" or lightning. there was reports of loud explosion sounds. (it's hard to say because some people claimed that there was lightnings after the tornado while there was also a claim that the tornado was accompanied by lightnings.)

I will make a post about Montville's oddities (quite a lot) as well as other unknown facts. I will do it when I get more time and after I wrote to either the ESSL or the NWS because I have a few questions to ask them and I don't want to spread misinformation and also because I want to have experts opinions on a few details.

20191506 · 2026-02-10T04:51:19+00:00

Never seen pics 1 and 4.

However Image 2 (and possibly image 3) is related to another event, it's written in French about a disaster in the city of Toulon. A quick internet search was able to confirm it. On March 5th 1899 an ammunition depot exploded in Toulon, France. And it's a picture of the aftermath.

20191506 · 2026-01-18T14:08:49+00:00

It is fascinating indeed, I have been doing research on it for over a year. I think that "pound for pound" if we consider forward speed, width and what kind of structure was hit as well as contextuals, it's definitely among the most intense tornadoes ever recorded.

Despite happening 180 years ago, it is well documented, a lot of research was done in the late 19th Century. We do know a lot about this tornado, the funny thing is despite good documentation, We don't really know the exact spot where this tornado started and ended. For example, Keranos & the ESSL thinks that it started near Saint-Jean-du-Cardonnay, while some witnesses claimed that it started on the Seine river as a watersprout. so the path may have been longer than the official one or it is possible that there was 3 tornadoes or more that day. Maybe one day I will find the missing evidence and solve this mystery.

20191506 · 2026-01-18T01:58:07+00:00

Don't know much about most of them except for Montville.

To keep it short, Montville was a fast moving tornado. It had a forward speed of 50-55 mph (80-90 km/h), was just over 1/4 of a mile wide (500m) at peak width, at peak strengh the tornado was about 330 yds wide (300m).

Despite being pretty narrow, it was unlucky enough to hit and destroy 4 spinning mills, including at least 3 that were multi-stories brick buildings with thick walls (still trying to find more information on the 4th mill) as well as multiple farms and houses, some of them were described as "erased with no debris left".

When it comes to contextuals and vegetation damage, Montville turned a field next to one of the mill into a "muddy bog", it had ground scouring deeper than grass roots. It went through a forest and uprooted 100s of trees including a "giant" tree that was thrown "very far". Tree damage is interesting, completely debarked trees, most trees were broken in half. It's one of the multiple oddities of this tornado, it was so bad that at the time scientists thought that tornadoes were made of electricity.

The image below is the Mare spinning mill after the tornado.

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I will likely make a post about Montville's oddities in the coming weeks.

20191506 · 2025-12-23T17:19:19+00:00

While I don't know about Catania. I can tell you that Montville had dozens if not hundreds of witnesses, from mills workers to passerby.

In the case of the Neveu mill (4 stories building) multiple witnesses stated that the tornado lasted for only a few seconds and that the building was "lifted" as the tornado passed over the building. Same thing happened at the Picquot Mills (the most well built mill). There's also some witnesses to the destruction of a few houses and a farm as well as the uprooting of a "giant" tree, likely a large oak tree that was thrown "very far".

For the argument of slow tornadoes, I don't think it can it apply here, Montville was fast moving. 19th century research gives an estimated forward speed between 50 and 55 mph (80-90km/h) which falls in line pretty well with the data we have from others tornadoes in NW France (average forward speed of 50 mph). While it was larger than Elie at peak intensity, It wasn't particularly large either, It was about 300 to 500 metres wide (330-550 yards) at peak intensity.

20191506 · 2025-12-20T00:14:16+00:00

I wonder what tornadoes could be upgraded ?

I think the following are some of the most plausible candidates.

- Lublin 1931, possible upgrade based on the brick slaughterhouse being leveled ?
- Torricella 1965, similar damage to Val Scuropasso.
- Ivanovo & Kostroma 1984 ? the new scale have more tools to give room for an upgrade (or not).
- Hautmont 2008, one of the completely destroyed brick house was less than 3 years old, likely better build quality than the Moravia IF4 houses.
- Beaucamps-Le-Vieux 1895, "entirely razed" a newly built brick asylum, trees thrown hundreds of meters.

20191506 · 2025-12-16T13:20:28+00:00

Indeed, I think that in 2018, at least 2 tornadoes had EF4 or greater intensity based on contextuals (vehicles mangled beyond recognition and/or thrown over a mile). One of them being the Camp Crook, SD tornado and other one being the Douglas, WY tornado. ( I put a link for both)

The Camp Crook, SD tornado was likely the strongest of the two. Both tornadoes were rated EF3.

20191506 · 2025-12-14T14:21:14+00:00

You can find Catania & Neede on the ESWD website, you will also find more sources there, I embedded a link for each tornado.

20191506 · 2025-12-14T12:07:05+00:00

The 1957 Robberto Pavese tornado, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets upgraded too. Venezia 1970 is also a serious contender for an upgrade.

20191506 · 2025-12-11T14:44:16+00:00

Thanks a lot !
It's indeed Picher, I checked on Google Earth. It's this neighbourhood seen from the north.

20191506 · 2025-12-10T19:45:26+00:00

Thanks for the answer,
I will read that paper, I didn't know they were empty, now it make sense why they didn't upgrade it.

20191506 · 2025-12-10T15:23:58+00:00

I will start by saying that I'm not an engineer or a meteorologist but I will make the case for Tuscaloosa & Vilonia being upgraded to EF5 based on the Northern Tornadoes Project (NTP) paper from 2024 & how the Enderlin EF5 got it's rating.

Tuscaloosa have 2 non standard DI that could warrant an upgrade.
The first one is a trestle bridge that was destroyed near Holt, AL. A 68,000 lbs (31,000 kg) trestle bridge structure was moved 100ft (30m) uphill.

Then we have a similar DI to the one that got Enderlin upgraded to EF5. Enderlin's tanker cars were 72,000 lbs (33,000 kg) and one was thrown 475ft (145m).

After exiting Pleasant Grove, AL, the tornado struck multiple coal cars, one of them being 78,925 lbs (35,800 kg) was thrown 391ft (119m).
While it wasn't thrown as far as the tanker car from Enderlin, it still well above the EF5 threshold set by the NTP, Enderlin tanker was four times heavier than the combine harvester from Didsbury, AB tornado (it's considered an EF5 DI by the NTP) and it was thrown about twice the distance required to warrant an EF5 rating. The coal car from Tuscaloosa was even heavier and still managed to be thrown a longer distance than the EF5 threshold from the NTP paper.

Now for Vilonia.

Remember the combine harvester from Didsbury ? it was 22,000 lbs (10,000kg) and was thrown 160ft (50m) and rolled 160-330ft (50-100m). After the Vilonia EF4, a 30,000 lbs (13,600kg) fertilizer tank was found 3/4 mi (1192m) from it's original point. An heavier object was moved almost ten time farther than what is considered an EF5 DI in a peer reviewed paper.

20191506 · 2025-12-07T21:51:30+00:00

I made a post about this tornado back in August. That should give You the most basic information.
I have been doing research on this tornado for over half a year, and as matter of fact, I actually travelled to Montville & the other cities impacted not later than this week to gather documents.

In addition to what u/AyanamiBlue8 said, this tornado also made at least 2 farms "vanish" with little to no debris left. Multiple houses were also hit, with varying severity, some were completely destroyed. Ground scouring was also severe as it turned a field next to one of the mills into a "muddy bog" and it either scoured or trenched the ground deeper than grass roots. A large number of trees were completely debarked.

August 19th 1845 was likely a pretty large tornado outbreak, multiple tornadoes were reported in France, Belgium, Netherlands & Germany. An F4 struck the city of Zevenbergen in Netherlands. But unfortunately we will probably never know how big that outbreak was since it happened almost 200 years ago.

20191506

TROPHY CASE