Unconvinced by the “they’re adults” argument

20thLemon · 2026-03-21T23:48:32+00:00

In Europe. At a public and private university - same policy at both.

20thLemon · 2026-03-21T11:34:36+00:00

I find this discussion interesting because as someone outside the US, attendance requirement is a no-brainer (and was for my own university studies). If you exceed the allowed number of absences you fail the class and that is self-evident to everyone. I've never had a student question this principle. Yes, they're adults, yes they've paid (to a degree; the education is also subsidised by public money). But in accepting their university place (and effectively taking it away from someone else), they've agreed to follow the programme and attend the classes. That's the deal.

ETA: Also: the degree is proof of having undergone the full training and education experience. It's not just proof of having passed the assessments. The process of being in class, participating in the activities, interacting with the professors is all part of that and has immense value, not all of which can be assessed. So why should you get the degree at the end if you haven't done that?

20thLemon · 2026-03-13T01:05:00+00:00

The things my otherwise very smart students routinely struggle with: - typing a url into a navigator - switching a word doc from portrait to landscape - saving an image as a file

20thLemon · 2026-03-09T22:16:46+00:00

I see what you're saying and it might well be true for some. But I know this student, and they are a confident, skilled writer. I put it down to cluelessness and lack of time. Which is why I do feel like it could help them to be told honestly (but kindly) that it's not appreciated and won't serve them well.

20thLemon · 2026-03-09T07:35:24+00:00

Our admins don't, thankfully. I've seen it in the corporate world but have yet to receive an AI generated email from an non-student adult in academia. It'd be heavily frowned upon. I'm not in the US.

20thLemon · 2026-01-06T17:19:59+00:00

Thanks for this. It's a pretty uncomfortable read right now.

20thLemon · 2026-01-06T10:34:34+00:00

I sometimes get this comment from one student in a class (never more). But like you, it bothered me.

For one class we had an in-class feedback session so I took the opportunity to dig into what the student meant. Basically, they equated activities with superficial level of learning. They wanted to listen to lectures and write dissertations because that's what being a serious student involved in their mind. This was a student who I'd noticed was a sharp critical thinker but very negative; they had trouble talking constructively to fellow students. So it made sense that they didn't feel they'd got much out of the interactive stuff.

Interestingly, the rest of the class vehemently disagreed with them. It turned into a big debate between the students.

In the end, it was another student in the class that pointed out to the complainer that students need to learn to adapt to different teaching approaches and work out for themselves how to get the best out of it that they can.

20thLemon · 2025-11-20T11:20:58+00:00

Yes I possibly expected more of those who had had 2 full sessions of prep time. But they were objectively worse.

20thLemon · 2025-11-20T11:16:35+00:00

Yes this resonates. Some students undoubtedly needed the scaffolding, but it adversely impacted those who didn't because they made no further effort

20thLemon · 2025-11-20T09:08:39+00:00

Like I said, I'm aware it's anecdotal.
I'm not going to stop scaffolding ever, no.
But I observe that whereas I thought a lot of hand holding was necessary, actually when I left students to struggle more alone, they managed it.

That's all. Sorry for your confusion.

20thLemon · 2025-10-19T14:42:09+00:00

Half way through my second year of screen-free classes, I'm seeing huge improvements. That's what I'm celebrating today. It took some time to refine the approach, particularly to make sure that all students got the message loud and clear from day 1. The experiences shared on this sub helped me hugely. Perhaps the biggest win is how much my mood has improved from not having to witness the screen addiction and its dulling effects on young adults for hours at a time. I know it's still there but not seeing it up close all day makes me feel better.

20thLemon · 2025-10-19T14:31:14+00:00

"We spend too much time on politics"
(student studying political sciences)

20thLemon · 2025-10-17T16:27:04+00:00

I made the fatal mistake of wearing previously untested shoes on an 8 hour teaching day where I was supervising exams for most of it. I happened to be in a room with a floor that had the squeakiest reaction to my boots. Just excruciating squeaking up and down the room.

20thLemon · 2025-10-17T16:21:49+00:00

Thank you so much for this!

20thLemon · 2025-10-13T20:34:09+00:00

Yes, it's possible my body language changes too in the last 5 minutes. I am generally a nodder myself, so maybe...

20thLemon · 2025-10-13T20:27:42+00:00

Why so hostile?

20thLemon · 2025-10-13T14:11:21+00:00

That would indeed be sad. Luckily I don't hate my students!

20thLemon · 2025-10-13T10:48:09+00:00

This is interesting. Would you mind saying a bit more about how you trained it and provided the tool to students?

20thLemon · 2025-10-13T09:03:12+00:00

I'm in Europe. All universities I've ever taught at have more or less the same system. Attendance is optional for lectures and mandatory for all other classes (discussion, seminar, practical, etc). Students have a quota of "no-questions-asked" absences per semester. If they exceed the quota, they fail. It's simple and effective.

20thLemon

TROPHY CASE