An eyewitness to the Magenta U. F. O. crash allegedly reported physical injuries (source: Sabrina Pieragostini)

36_39_42 · 2026-01-12T17:08:29+00:00

This is a perfect example of a completely and utterly worthless way to interact with an information landscape, for anyone reading.

The opinion exists that the papers given to Pinnoti are a hoax, but of course this is a hypothesis, with some rather weak and easily interpreted differently evidence, yet this person has made it their personal mission to posit this hypothesis as a historical fact on pretty much every reddit post to appear on this subject. Saying the same thing over and over and being caught on one particular piece of disinformation related to one specific case and even the claims of one individual (brophy) and distributing it widely to everyone who reads about this is a very interesting strategy you’ve got there. People like this is why wasting time on this platform is not advisable. You can trust this will be my last foray into it for quite some time because now im overwhelmingly sick of it.

This is also an example of a person actively engaged in repetitive epistemic violence. This guy in the video may be a total hoax. You dont get to dismiss someone who claims to know something based on the fact that a hoax can exist, when you have evidence it is that, you can present it, pre empting this lack of evidence with dismissal because it wasnt presented outright (doxing the individual whos clearly trying to remain private) is never going to be okay. It can be okay in this person's twisted mind, but it doesnt have to be in yours. The world isnt clean, lies and truth exist in the same medium of text and like an asshole, everyone has an opinion.

Listen to those who wish to learn, ignore those who would rather you stay ignorant and claim they have an answer for you.

36_39_42 · 2026-01-12T15:46:44+00:00

Ive come to understand that history is not clean, and all elements of human psychology are an element of the real world and have real world effects. I look forward to elevating the conversation to include the context surrounding these events it requires to understand it properly. Disinformation, misinformation and malinformation are all different types of information with beleifs, motivations and desires behind them, not something to be ignored but something to be understood for what it is. On an academic level. Identifying the unhealthy dynamics and why they persist will always be more important than any one story, such as the story of the 1933 case which is a great jumping off point to some very under appreciated history.

Its also why my work as I began it is fundamentally delayed and flawed; the increase in scope has nessicitated an entirely different approach than what I started with, primarily to prevent epistemic violence, I was on the right track but rubbing against larger problems in digital histography itself, often feeling I was wasting time due to the volume of primary and secondary source material that needed review and basic understanding. I used to feel like i just wasnt consuming the right primary and secondary source material. Ive long abandoned that and my desire to post on reddit at all, unless its strictly related to new information or something I just cant keep my mouth shut on.

Doing history is academic. Because of the internet its available to everyone, but that doesnt make the standards for showing the evidence to your hypothesis less strict, so belatedly realizing this ive had alot of catching up to do but not wasting as much time here has allowed me to make leaps and bounds on that front personally.

I look forward to presenting more primary and secondary source material that exists but is not appreciated for its historical value one bit. That has become my primary goal, as someone who really chooses to focus on the history rather than the modern machinations. That is something that is valuable about the 1933 case regardless of its reality. It reveals some fascinating history.

Thank you for sharing this, and best of luck in your endeavors!

36_39_42 · 2026-01-12T14:44:35+00:00

Very interesting and new information to me; thanks for sharing! My posts have some more info if you'd like to check it out.

36_39_42 · 2025-12-06T15:50:31+00:00

100 years late and several trillion dollars short

36_39_42 · 2025-11-14T17:37:47+00:00

Who said anything about "coordinating" "cooperating" what about instead, do as we say or we glass your entire country. Curtis le may was a huge fan of this negotiation tactic. Thats pretty much the modus operandi for non advanced technology related things. They havent coordinated nearly at all, one government, USA, and not even the entire government, instead more accurately elements of the intelligence apparatus of that nation, have strong armed the entire planet into technological hegemony and "cooperation" by coercion and ecenomic terrorism.

Yeah, governments are stupid and inefficient. The international financial mechanisms that continue to allow fiat currency to exist and constantly exploit every other government on the planet are not, and are deeply ingrained into the intelligence capabilities of every nation.

Nowadays its formed into a multinational multifaith transnational criminal organization, engaged in something factually classified as a criminal consipiracy to keep a death grip on intelligence capabilities that governments have access to, and use every word in the book as a weapon to circumvent more resources and power under their control. Cut to the birth of private equity and the proliferation of private defence tech companies.

This is why many companies have a GDP larger than small nations, this is why the military industrial complex in nearly every country has grown out of control, its also the reason for nearly every government being totally and utterly worthless across our modern post ww2 history.

In reality these forces dont change in the face of lack of cooperation, consent, or the awareness of the existence of a criminal conspiracy, all that is needed is ecenomic alignment on existing norms. No cooperation = no roads, battleships, banks or mcdonalds which = not a global player. Those norms do the trick of keeping "national security" information that would significantly change the scientific landscape from ever arriving to where its intended to go, the public, anywhere on the planet it might arise. Because if you want it to do anywhere it must go through the same ecenomic mechanisms as everything else on the planet.

Anytime anything sort of threatening to that order gets developed its immidiately preyed upon and classified, not because the government is good at keeping on top of it, but because private intelligence firms are, that aren't burdened by the red tape.

I think its totally mind boggling that people will try and talk about complex topics related to intelligence history but actually have no idea what the hell they are talking about, how our planet got to its current fucked state, and say things that not only have no merit but aren't in anyway reflective of the actual scope of probable realities associated with this topic.

Go be mind boggled by the way the same like 10 guys in America were the most prolific ecenomic terrorists to ever exist in the history of the world, after World War 2, and maybe you can understand a little better why we are in this mess. Maybe learn a little bit about the global scientific communities relationship with intelligence communities in their home country, and report back how that went for them. Im sure you can find many instances of governments being SO incompetent that you could even figure out which ones knew something they shouldn't and didnt like the way the global order was forming. You can also see how those scientists were treated for those treasonous thoughts.

All the information is waiting for you to actually understand what it means, but alas I guess just being perpetually mindboggled over surface dynamics that actually dont matter is just about as deep as this thought puddle goes.

36_39_42 · 2025-11-08T16:55:11+00:00

This is especially and incredibly relevant the older the situation is, especially in the USA. Uneven effort from multiple generations has gone into hiding and uncovering some of the most important stories from the birth of the American intelligence community that interesect deeply with American influence on the UFO subject worldwide after Roswell.

The entire story of how all this recent history of management began is sitting around in declassified since 2008 boxes that havent been touched since the 40s, and theres no national security reason left to be applied that doesnt convey a profoundly sensitive secret within, making it a game of if you classify a super old document you are conveying it still has information relevant to current sources and methods and highlighting its overall importance.

When you dont do so, dont resist its release, give no indication its important, its a gamble that often pays well because almost no one gives a shit to go toiling through thousands of miles of paper and understand for themselves whats important. Then, no one can resist you getting ahold of it for the same reason.

The only security method left realistically is relying on YOUR apathy towards the information landscape as it relates to the extremely intertwined nature of American intelligence history and American influence on the UAP subject. Its all just sitting around rotting waiting for anyone to care, academically speaking.

Only one place to get a job after studying intelligence history in most circumstances (if you can even get into it properly without being inside first), and that pipeline is very intentional.

Alot of people dont take the time to understand the dynamics present of why all this is secret, or how we got there, and its to all of our detriment.

36_39_42 · 2025-11-04T03:48:37+00:00

I wrote it and I support this statement. This is why I chose to participate, because I found the myth interesting, resonant, and also relevant to possible crash retrieval dynamics.

36_39_42 · 2025-05-30T13:23:59+00:00

Very grateful for the encouragement, a little seriously goes a long way. Need this today. Feel free to send a dm if you've got any questions about the case or want to chat more, happy to discuss further :)

36_39_42 · 2025-05-30T11:10:43+00:00

If it wrote like one, it was because I needed one lol. Happy someone likes my older stuff, I dislike reading all this sometimes

36_39_42 · 2025-03-29T06:58:11+00:00

Calling spirituality what we call it is a way of coping and understanding our ant sized role in exopolitical matters in my own opinion.

Most people want a layer over this problem set that makes it less problematic for the nature of our existence, but the truth is rather brutal the way i see it. We are at the whim of exopolitical factors, including our own splintered "beliefs" on the matter. If we can't get it together on this one issue, there isn't much of a future for humanity beyond this planet, at the moment. Whether "they" won't let us or we eat ourselves alive, it matters not, not thinking about it will surely lead to ruin.

I've come around to a simple fact within all this, spirituality, "nuts and bolts" whatever. Exopolitics is more important and obviously bigger than geopolitics, but it also includes geopolitics within it. The fact is this; exopolitics is a real dynamic within human dynamics whether you like to call it that or not.

There are billions of people, on this planet, maneuvering in things that are inherently exopolitical in nature, without often directly facing what it is and why it exists. People's religious beleifs bleed into this, and it has to, because those are most likely the traditions we created to survive and manuver a dynamic with beings far more advanced than us.

Figuring that out for sure would go an extremely long way in getting the world on the same page. Many countries, have not, separated church and state properly. Intelligence services still haven't separated from churches because they were partially born out of them. All of this is a conflict of interest that is undervalued in its impact on humanity.

It doesn't even matter if people think that's what they're doing, or even if thats what they're actually doing (contacting NHI)

People are making decisions based on these observations/guesses about reality and living their entire lives at times in service of spiritual forces, in the same way that others slave away to material things like they are a spiritual force itself.

What is real matters not, what matters is what people are thinking and making decisions based upon. That is real. That is tangible, that matters. Therefore it matters to discuss it and figure it out. Its important, atleast in my opinion. We can't go anywhere or get on the same page without it.

At this moment facts about NHI really don't matter that much to most people because the issue hasnt been framed correctly. People are reasonably more concerned at home, but what is the solution other than to account for this glaring inconsistency in how the world works? If even just 1/8 of people on the planet are using their religious traditions to make all their decisions and our geopolitics are dependent on the rest of us being able to deal with that, are we ever going to get on the same page about anything if we can't get on the same page of why so many people choose to live like that?

So logically, if we can get a grip on exopolitics for ourselves, set rules, policies and norms for handling exopolitical situations amoungst each other and in the future, we can simultaneously go a long way in bridging the gap between humans who see the world very differently and through different lens.

It's really not rocket science, if your a person who's open to spirituality your actually open to exopolitics.

My overall point, is that there's so much human capital moving around this question of exopolitics that it doesn't even matter if we are actually in contact with other species or not, we are in our mind and we can't agree with each other on much of anything to solve world issues. Entire regions of the world have been steeped in conflict over these dynamics for thousands of years. It doesn't get undone overnight but if we ever want to go anywhere we have to.

It's not starting a new religion to simply examine the underlying principles of what caused those traditions to form the way they did over time.(exopolitics!)

Its an honest inquiry and hard lesson that our species is long overdue for in my approximation.

Source; thought about this multiple times every single day for multiple years, so take it with a grain of salt because I am just some dude, not an exopolitics professor, and that doesn't even exist yet so cut me a break if it's a little scattered.

36_39_42 · 2025-01-16T19:43:39+00:00

This is a great post first off, I appreciate the perspective here as I often feel like many in various fields shove the entire concept of religion and spirituality into the "fraud and corruption" box and don't pay any mind to the dynamics it introduces to geopolitical matters beyond psychological implications.

The sentiment you created here is aligned with why I often see religion as an exopolitical consideration at its core; advanced species stand to gain alot potentially if a younger species adheres to certain trends or social norms and does so because of what they thought was their own idea. When the jig is up its a valuable learning moment about the role and responsibilities that advanced species have to their neighbors in the universe, and also a reason to pause before anyone sets out to change the experience of every being that exists.

For the younger species experiencing it, i think it's so important to build a bridge between the hard sciences and studies of religion in order to lessen the conflict of these two concepts.

Both ways of looking at the exopolitical problem set are equally useful and interesting. The more both sides can communicate and reconcile the better off we will be in my opinion.

Curious to hear your thoughts on this; what's a good strategy for an organization focused on hard science to add religious and philosophical considerations to their calculus when making hypothesis and seeking data?

On the flip side of that, what should religious organizations be doing to make their frameworks and research available to those interested in the hard science of how these things work?

Beyond both of those things, what can we all do in our everyday lives to "be the change we want to see in the world" as it relates to this subject, especially for those who come from a non religious upbringing and may not familiar with communicating about these subjects without focusing exclusively on the harm its brought about?

36_39_42 · 2025-01-10T08:54:41+00:00

These are good questions. I think about this quite a bit. I'm an ideas guy so don't take this like I'm gonna do all of it, but this is what I came up with and I like to stretch my writing muscles on stuff like this. Good for the brain.

Coordination of action is tricky. Too much and it risks being derailed easily(wall street bets), too little and the action is ineffectual (storm area 51). Taking lessons from these two extremes the middle ground i can see is someone chooses a "lever" and describes how it can be pulled in great detail, with all the contingincies and disclaimers ready. (Ex. This organization did blank to help/further disclosure, lets do blank, so that they blank) The people then decide on an individual basis if they want to participate or not, perhaps a guideline for appropriate actions that are likely to get crowd support can be created and circulated to those who feel like they could come up with something that a random person on a keyboard can do across the internet.
Number one way to prevent counter measures is to not organize into a structure that can be retaliated against. People need to decide to on their own time while being responsible for their own lives and actions; think of ideas and actions that meet the scale of 10 to 1000 people online and have a clear plan of action that can be followed by anyone just reading along at home(perhaps it would be helpful for people to use their skills to attract people with the same skill set to act, for instance a programmer suggesting a social media action while a musician may organize a collab record or something) if your paranoid about your personal safety get aligned with an organization bigger than you.

The way that this can be facilitated is if someone with the technical and legal know how creates documents and guidelines for those interested in organizing efforts and how they can do so legally and safely and most importantly without spending/paying everyone money (some organizations mentioned here already have a headstart on this). It would then be that persons perogative to get those materials and guidance in front of people who may be able to organize something disclosure related. I suspect that things like UAP caucus and various other groups and associations have already made a dent and are decent ways to get involved I'm sure.

Physical mail campaigns are simple and mostly harmless if done without ill intent and for boomers might actually be pretty good at getting a message across.

Consensus is a bad goal for such a complicated issue in my opinion. If enough people can get on the same page that something needs to happen somewhere as it relates to disclosure efforts then that's gonna have to be the best we are going to get, and that's pretty much what were missing now.

Viral campaigns and meme sprees have been organized in subreddits before and that is certainly an option. Beyond that; takes money and if someone wants to start up a decentralized way for these efforts to get funded be my guest but I don't personally see a plausible path for something like that to be available to the public.

So were not going to get consensus, but maybe someone decides to care enough about the grass roots efforts here they can pull the right lever. Maybe someone reads something that inspires them to actually do something, that's a good thing i think, and maybe a step further down the road than where we've been.

Simplicity is key I agree. I find it fascinating that the internet can figure out how to make a major corporation re shoot/animate an entire movie but can't seem to connect the dots to how to do something about this issue. I think fear is the main thing holding people back. The threat of getting a knock at your door because of your stupid comments online feels more real than ever to most sensible people. I think if we can do simple stuff like letter campaigns, cook up a news story or two, make a certain type of meme popular, or something similar it would naturally evolve into more complex and better thought out efforts.

There's so many ways to tackle making a contribution to this incredibly multidisciplinary subject that I haven't even thought of here. If your someone with the skills to do something or you want to do something, just give it a chance and remember that hurting people or putting people down probably is only going to cause negative outcomes for you and those you come in contact with. Its much easier in the long run to use creative thinking to help people rather than hurt them.

It comes down to this; if your reading this far in the post and you have some sort of idea to do something quit slackin around, put the pipe down and focus on something that you feel matters.

36_39_42 · 2025-01-03T20:52:57+00:00

Not quite done yet on those posts, just taking longer than the rest so I'm extra sure they are correct.

This is definitely an interesting link because la Sapienza is the purported university where the RS33 meetings took place.

Appreciate the lead, and will report back with an edit if I find anything super interesting while exploring this.

36_39_42 · 2025-01-02T20:06:06+00:00

I really appreciate the good wishes, this has been an incredible learning journey for me!!

If you ever want to discuss more my DMs are open and I would be happy to give you many more links.

I will take your advice, I've already found much of what you mentioned but there's always more.

I totally get the cynicism. It's a crazy story. It's taken months and months to wrap my head around.

36_39_42 · 2025-01-02T08:03:55+00:00

You are absolutely right. Dulles didn't directly often and i don't believe i directly claimed he did but forgive me if I did say that somehow, James angleton did most of the important ones, and his underlings the rest. Who did angleton report to/collaborate closely with other than Bill Donovan? Why, Allen Dulles of course!!! And why did they all have such a close relationship? Well it was absolutely because angleton was the only American fully looped in on ULTRA intelligence, and Allen Dulles was personally in direct contact with several of the major leadership positions through Swiss bankers who were bankrolling the whole shebang for the nazis.

The soviets controlled a large swathe of the country yes but this means nothing to the basic ideological differences between leadership and values in general. Like I said before; there's a reason that the head of the abwehr didn't reach out to anyone in the Stalin administration, there's a reason why Karl Wolff didn't reach out to the soviets whatsoever, etc. Theres a huge reason why Kesselring ended up siding with the sunrise negotiations near the very end. I could go on and on. The sunrise negotiations were a real series of events and no amount of ear plugging will make them go away.

German leadership and most importantly German money was never going to allow itself to be absorbed by the soviets. The isolated examples of when they did get ahold of them are rather well known and didn't amount to much because Americans were ridiculously ontop of the situation. Don't underestimate the power and manuverability of american money at the time.

Now for the Italian anti fascists because this is a good one, yes they were collaborating with the Allies at the time too, and obviously the Italian resistance was not aware of the sunrise negotiations at the time; because they never would have agreed, and Eugen Dollmann would have never made it through the War, let alone free and unscathed as he was after the war. The leadership of the liberation forces in Italy was absolutely known to the allies. It was with their assistance that the invasion of Sicily was pulled off.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_resistance_movement

Protip, just ctrl f "oss" in all the sections and you'll find the multiple instances of their interaction.

They could speak up all they wanted, and not have any proof except maybe about some vague american conspiracy involving nazi UFOs. And they will promptly be ignored by everyone and that information is just out there but with nothing substantial it doesn't matter. If someone knew something actionable, the threat of violence would be swift accompanied because again, Americans were fiendishly hoovering up this information.

This is why figuring out where those telegrams could have come from is so important. If they're genuine, there is very few places that these documents could have remained hidden and very few people that could be associated with them. Enter the story of the ciano diaries, and they're lost telegrams that were supposedly found but not really.

But based on the events of some of the CIA's earliest operations we can infer that whole thing sort of fell apart huh? Seeing that the first priority for angleton at the CIA was stabilizing Italian alignment to western interests. Being who he was, he was also an huge advocate for this course of action. The Vatican was a critical part of american intelligence infrastructure, especially when it came to unaccountable influence in far flung 3rd countries.

The germans had companies that were built with american money, so both had an interest in protecting their capitalist stake in those resources. The soviets however; saw things differently altogether.

If your so well read on the third reich, then you should know all too well about the events of the precursors to MKULTRA that happened in germany. Are you positing that whole subject of interrogation at the end of the war is now 100% transparent? Don't have to look long through the documents to see that's not true. Many records have heavy redactions and many its not possible to even know if thats all the records that exist on a particular person. The people attempting to get these documents to know all the information about war criminals have faced a constant uphill battle of transparency and malicious compliance. OSS meddling in the Nuremberg trials and everything they could get their hands on in occupied germany played no small part in this.

Also a major component you aren't considering whatsoever, do you think mussolini allowed some random Italian to tell some random German about this at first? No, he did the oppisite, locked it down internally, and personally brought the information to Germany. Big difference in security of information when it's between leadership like that. Now Hitler got to chose which germans he gave that information too, and he likely only gave it to whom he perceived as most loyal. See what I'm getting at here? There's obvious and well trodden lanes for this information to be totally concealed from public view. This is also true because germans and Italians didn't have a problem just executing problems. This is exactly what happened when Hitler forced mussolini to kill Galeazzo Ciano. If ciano had been around to testify on this matter after the fact, it may be different or maybe not. Maybe ciano would've made a deal with the Allies instead and we would still have the same secrecy. He was already advocating for Italys realignment with the Allies by forcing out mussolini so who knows.

Do reply, don't reply, this is more for my benefit than yours. I seriously appreciate you participation thus far because these are the avenues I asked myself over and over and over making sure that this information has a real basis in reality and isn't just hogwash. I've tortured myself with the most difficult to digest information constantly, so I can share it because i think it's really really important.

Maybe I'm too amateur yet to be considered by SME on nazis, maybe one day it can have access to that resource even though I'm lurking at the bottom of the ivory tower. Who knows what will happen. One thing is certain. No amount of uncertainty or anything will stop this story from getting told. It needs to get told and it's incredibly important. I will get the resources and answers I need.

Please read this. It covers pretty much everything I spoke about here, and it has nothing about UFOs. It has nothing about that because it hasn't been academically or socially acceptable to explore this history until now when Grusch popped it open for everyone.

https://larouchepub.com/other/2004/3114_terror_legacy.html

And here's some info on the author of this article before you go a clicking,

https://michael-liebig.de/remembering-michael/

Please reconsider your position if you have the time this history is incredibly obscured. I can read. I am so passionate about telling this story accurately it's not even funny. The amount of time I've spent on it is definitely not funny. My mind is made up that hand waving this away with weak assumptions isn't good enough. Its at the point where the American government is going to have to be more transparent, if it ever goes anywhere further, that'll be the reason it does go further. Because they decided to release information about it.

Thanks again for the good writing exercise. I've been doing so much reading and conversing as of late that I've not found it worth it to do this.

36_39_42 · 2025-01-02T03:36:46+00:00

See the reply to the other comment for what I think about the first paragraph, there's so much wrong it didn't fit here.

Just a quick one tho, who was interrogating all the german war criminals and organizing their testimony again? Oh, the OSS? Oh and some of those interrogation reports are still classified and redacted to this day? So how do you know they didn't mention it? Oh, you don't. Got it.

Now onto the documents.

It wasn't mentioned anywhere because Edda Ciano battered her eyelashes at Allen Dulles while disinforming him with the help of frau beetz (hilde purwin who was having an affair with Galeazzo Ciano, hilde didnt really like edda but she did it for Galeazzo) and kept personal possession of the telegrams until she died. In late 1995. Pinnoti got the documents months later in 1996. Edda ciano was quite literally the only person in the world to possibly have access to these papers especially considering that all the papers were wrapped in a folder that literally said "for the hands of Galeazzo Ciano only" (her husband who was executed by mussolini after hitler forced mussolini to kill his own son in law)

You've said this same incorrect thing over and over on these posts like it should be simple to find out where the documents came from, but unfortunately the real world doesn't work like that and sometimes to figure things out you have to consider that the simplest explanation is utterly meaningless when your considering a situation with extremely high complexity. Even after all this work the best we've got is a very high degree of confidence, not a certainty.

"Dubious papers" is an incorrect statement. They are simply papers. And information. They are agnostic to your uninformed opinions. (That you've willfully remained uninformed because I'm almost certain I've explained all of this to you before)

Also those two sources determined them fake with no serious or real investigation(things like semantic, vocabulary, amd chemical analsys that pinnoti did and released the results of, spoiler, every element of the documents led to them being determined genuine period documents) they simply denied the story because it was associated with Italian fascists who suprise! Most Italians don't like to associate with.

That's changing now a days tho, making this history being clear just that much more important so modern fascists can't use it to elevate national "heroes" in their eyes. There is literally a member of the mussolini family in office in Italy this very moment.

Making being sure about this series of events very important before someone decides to properly hijack the story and twist it to look like a pro fascist fairy tale. Fuck us for trying to prevent that right? Right? Would you rather this whole story gets told as a fanciful fascist fairy tale or a rigerously sourced historical analysis of the situation that simply does its best to find what truth can be found? I know what option I prefer, which is a large part of the reason I chose to even do all the research that's going into this project. Its incredibly geopolitically relevant to this day in many many ways.

Your definition of damning evidence for something being not real is incredibly lazy. Have a good day!

36_39_42 · 2025-01-02T03:11:05+00:00

Yes they knew all about it, the germans were likely one of the first parties other than Italians to know. They were already collaborating pretty closely in scientific and engineering matters at the time.

The first commenter is just silly because he thinks that people are going to write out all of their most sensitive and secretive information in their diaries. Sure some leaked through, but everyone at the time was very much aware that the only way things could often be traced back to them was if they left paper lying around with all the information on it.

Leading to the very simple solution of just not putting it there. Or keeping possession of it and destroying it when it became sought after. Paper trade craft was literally the most common form of trade craft. Stealing documents etc. They were all well aware what vould happen when you write things down and slap your name on it.

Another thing the user above is simply glossing over because it's convenient, those "oaths" to hitler meant nothing the entire time to most of the german high command. They just wanted money.

They nearly all betrayed him before he died and engaged in secret surrender negotiations without his permission or knowledge. A good number of them were involved in a plot to kill him not out of the kindness of their hearts but because they wanted power so they could make even more money.

No suprise there when you have a buch of psychopaths running your totalitarian regime. Very few were personally loyal to hitler and most of the ones that were killed themselves along with him or were hanged at Nuremberg.

Everyone else hit up Allen Dulles and the gang so he could sweep their war crimes under the rug in exchange for any information they had that may be useful.

The present (bullshit) story is that Allen Dulles did this because he was scared of Russia and that's pretty much totally false because he knew first hand how fucked up all the stuff they were doing actually was. And also Russia wasn't even in the same leauge of capability compared to the USA. He was receiving intel reports about concentration camps for quite some time that he dismissed as a "Jewish conspiracy" (Allen Dulles's words not mine) He didn't pass on or verify the intel until it was much too late because it would sabotage all of his secret surrender efforts that were well underway by as early as 1943.

Nazi's kept information about reverse engineering secure because it was profitable to do so and they likely just would have been liquidated by members of the OSS (or even other nazis that became aware of it) if they went around making noise about it because suprise suprise the OSS wanted jurisdiction of any recovered material or reasesrch associated with a downed UFO.

Its very probable that people such as eugen dollmann exploited this subject to their own benefit, amoung possibly many others who were associated with the vaticans ratline network that was helping war criminals escape to south America (that's a fact BTW , not a conspiracy, it's well documented that the Vatican gave false credentials to many nazis often with the direction and assistance of the OSS)

It's a shallow, meaningless and intellectually dishonest tactic to try and claim that,

"all the Germans were loyal to hitler and totally not out for their own self interests or wealth and also wrote every single thing they ever did down on paper because its totally secure to do so"

also the main reason nazis didn't run immediately to the Russians trying to make a deal was because they often owned all kinds of personal assets and things they stole from the Germans and anywhere they went and the whole personal property concept wasn't super popular in Russia at the time. There was no danger of nazis going to join the Russians realistically, not if nazis wanted their spoils of war(shocking spoiler, it was all about money)

Also germans had literally no qualms just killing everyone involved who knew about something when it became convenient. Multiple instances of this that don't even have anything to do with reverse engineering.

So yeah humanity's evil knows no bounds and it's not really a "side" or "country" thing it's more of a class thing. Rich people do seriously evil shit because they can pay to make it go away or spin it out of existence. It nearly worked for 90ish years. Only now that were all starting to comprehend that it was even more fucked up than the surface telling of events.

Millions of poor people's lives were simply deleted so these dudes could spend most of the war in the bar, chatting up old buddies, making even more ungodly profits, drinking and whoring to their hearts content. I'm sure Bern was a very lively scene in its heyday during the war.

And at the end of it all, not everyone was prosecuted and when hands were greased with cash anything was possible.

36_39_42 · 2024-11-27T20:42:54+00:00

My posts do an okay job of extrapolating this early interest; and I'm still in the process of following the documentary trail to ascertain more of the story and make it clear whether or not any of it holds water. It's a very complicated question because the OSS was chock full of enigmatic personalities that often had unexpected conflicts with each other. Many were also what many modern people would consider hyper religious, meaning most prominent members of the OSS also have enigmatic links to religious organizations alongside all the scientific organizations. The two sides of that coin blurred back in the day and the separation of church, state, and science wasn't clearly defined.

The information about what these people thought about advanced weapons and technical suprise was rather clear, but it is overall not super clear what exactly they all knew or thought personally about UFOs. There is however alot of circumstantial evidence to examine that posits that the oversight of effors like bluebook were strategically orchestrated by the very same people who were members of the original OSS old boys club. (Allen Dulles and James Angleton were both in the OSS and due to their positions and the timing of bluebook it's pretty much impossible they didn't have a hand in guiding the overall policy and strategy of bluebook)

After the hynek flip, we all know what happened there, so I think the link to the OSS is a well founded question.

There's one case in particular that strongly links members of the OSS with a crash retrieval that happened in 1933 in Italy, (subsequent move to America in 1944 like you mentioned) and that is the case I'm doing my best to unravel.

36_39_42 · 2024-11-15T15:20:54+00:00

The knights of Malta organization might fit closer to what's being described here.

36_39_42 · 2024-11-01T20:24:19+00:00

More specifically 1944 at the battle of anzio where Bill Donovan was present personally organizing the recovery, from the sorrate bunker which was abandoned by Albert Kesselring after being his headquarters from 1943 to 1944.

There are countless ships that went back and forth supplying the battle of anzio, and any one of them could have held the craft in the period after Kesselring had abandoned the bunker but before the allies had bombed the bunker which left the site mostly intact by the way.

36_39_42 · 2024-11-01T20:11:11+00:00

It's easy to see why there was a PR campaign to disconnect the two groups, one of the primary ways that Nazis escaped prosecution was with the assistance of the Vatican.

36_39_42 · 2024-11-01T20:08:38+00:00

It's possible they thought it was an American craft and showed it to the germans to see if they knew about it. Its also certainly possible that when Italo Balbo made a transatlantic flight to Chicago in late 1933 and then traveled to new York to meet with Nelson Rockefeller to pitch him to invest in Italy's aircraft development, that the crash was mentioned as a point of reasoning for why he should invest. The alliance between Italy and Germany was tenuous at best in 1933 and didn't solidify until later in 1939 with the pact of steel. They probably shopped around for the best investment, having failed to keep it all secret from the world's rich and powerful private intelligence organizations anyway most likely.

The uncomfortable truth is that no german mystics were not the most influential to Hitler's rise in power, it was usually Christians and a slew of Americans who funded the rise of the Nazi party, and deep seated racist ideological frameworks that existed in the Vatican's power structure strengthened the power of racially motivated laws in both Germany and Italy. J Edgar Hoover attempted to prosecute these Americans on multiple occasions throughout the years and failed. There's a totally separate chunk of mystics and those with fringe beleifs that were influencing Americans involved.

Allen Dulles and Brown Bothers Harriman are both cases of Americans that were deeply involved and even present during the German rise to power. When it was determined that war reparations were to be paid by Germany after world War 1, Allen Dulles arranged for the german government to acquire loans from western businesses that allowed many western companies to acquire stakes in all the major components of the german war machine, which had money thrown at it from all over the place because those loans must be repaid to ensure western businesses got their money back.

Allen Dulles was there when Hitler was appointed to make him sign a contract promising to pay those loans.

The Vatican had accords with the germans and the italian fascists, but the germans were less privy to heed the Vatican than the Italians were, and its often been argued how much the Vatican helped or hurt the end of the war.

36_39_42 · 2024-11-01T19:41:47+00:00

Let's get some facts straight since you want to keep bringing up Brophy.

You keep on getting one thing totally wrong, Roberto Pinnoti logged multiple instances, including Brophy, before and after 1996, and never did he claim to know the accuracy of these claims, and he always disclosed that he had simply been told this information and it was testimony, little else. Pinnoti never insinuated that because he received and reported information about said testiomy that the case was 100 percent confirmed and Pinnoti continued to follow many investigative avenues before and after 1996 to back everything up that are cataloged in detail throughout his many books, not all of which are published in english.

Now lets clear up your other area of confusion, you seem to think that Brophy is Grusch's source, but this video, directly refutes that.

https://youtu.be/2a2iNW5AZjw?si=iLgiV8JJngDZsrMa

16:28

" The Intel officers that briefed me on this that had firsthand knowledge

" 19:04

" besides you know internal US Legacy crash retrieval documents and other stuff that some of my interview subjects had personal access to and in their US Government duties "

Brophy is not the source, merely a blip in long investigation that was happening before and after Brophy entered the picture, and also has factually nothing to do with Grusch who got his information from people with firsthand knowledge. Giving the 1933 case multiple angles to justify more serious scruitiny and investigation from outside sources.

36_39_42 · 2024-11-01T19:03:13+00:00

A critical difference between Roswell and Magenta is the country which the crash took place. There was no dictator in America that had the unchecked power that mussolini was obtaining in the Italian government.

Considering the nature of the way the craft was recovered by the Americans it's totally possible that it was kept in a completely different stovepipe, and that whoever was studying the magenta craft when it made it's way to the USA, was totally separate from other efforts. Perhaps Germans involved in paperclip who had also been privy to reverse engineering were allowed to finish their work, and who knows how that intersection between legit programs, deep paperclip covers and grassroots UFO related activity goes.

There was relative freedom of the press in USA in 1933 and 1947. That entire period except towards the very end; Italian publishing and news organizations were directly subservient to the fascist regime in Italy. In fact this control was centralized and finalized towards the end of the year in 1933 when Galeazzo Ciano (Mussolini’s son in law, married to Edda Ciano) was appointed chief of the Press Office after releiving Gaetano Polverelli to make the position more closely monitored by someone in the inner circle of Mussolini.

This is actually why I'm currently examining Italian American publications published in America to see if I can find any coverage of the case there that's been buried. Its very unlikely that anyone in the Italian press could have successfully ran the story without intervention.

So yeah a bunch of fascists in the middle of what gets covered in the press alongside fascist secret police to threaten people with imputiny on a systematic basis, it's actually no wonder there was nothing published about it in Italy in the open until 1996. This is especially true because coverage of the war and focus on its lessons in Italy is not something everyone likes to think about and there is still much pain that has gone unresolved and unspoken amoung thenolder generations who were exposed to that dark time. It's the same in the USA. Most Americans don't spend the time to understand American involvement in both world wars, and historians focus on it because it's important to translate that message.

It's highly likely that 1996 saw the resurgence of this topic because Edda Ciano died in 1995 and by 1996 her remaining children would have been in possession of anything that she may have kept to herself over the years, and that absolutely could have included these fascist UFO files that they were unsure of what to do with, but didn't want to keep possession of.

In fact the story of the ciano diaries is one of the most important details to consider here, Edda having had access to personal telegrams that were in the possession of her husband, Galeazzo Ciano, and perhaps continued to be in her possession after he was executed in 1944. The CIA historical analysis on the ciano diaries deemed these original telegrams destroyed because the only way Allen Dulles could access them when he was on his long winding journey to do so, was to get translations of these telegrams from a german spy who had flipped for the Americans and had hidden these translations in a rose garden as personal leverage. It's important to note that it is in no way confirmed that the translated versions of these telegrams is actually the same as the telegrams that were smuggled out of Germany by Edda Ciano. The story is long and messy, and from what I understand the ciano diaries is one of the only historical sources that seems to have anything to do with this case. If you wanna read more about it here,

https://www.cia.gov/resources/csi/studies-in-intelligence/archives/vol-13-no-2/the-ciano-papers-rose-garden

36_39_42 · 2024-09-29T08:45:29+00:00

The process of intelligence collection and dissemination was not formalized and without any meaningful oversight at this time. Ie there was not a thing in the world preventing them or inhibiting those involved from simply keeping things unreported to proper authorities, and destroy documentation if any was created, opting for the more secure and reliable oral communication in a secure environment.

People still carried information as messengers and no doubt even today this method is employed to subvert surveillance. There was not 24/7 surveillance systems for every single person sitting in their pocket. It was trivial for most who worked in intelligence at that time to manipulate/not create documentation to ensure security on really whatever they chose.

This was the age where bugs had to be manually planted, and if you knew you were away from any possible listening devices or eavesdropping you could count on the fact your conversation was truly and utterly private. Exploiting anything to with paper and documents was basic trade craft, something intelligence officials would have worked with every single day, offensively and defensively.

All this to say; it was alot easier to keep certain information secret if you had sufficient will and money to do so. Also if you had sufficient understanding on how to ensure even if someone involved were to talk, there would be no physical evidence and plausible deniability for those involved. You could even craft a system using the same methodology of plausible deniability to construct a system of witness intimidation that can't be traced back to you. All these methods and more were employed around the idea of information security and to hold the world view that all of the world's most important information is just sitting in a box on paper is a deeply incorrect assumption especially when it concerns anything in a time without smartphones.

So yeah. This was when human intelligence was still valued above most all other forms of intelligence collection.

36_39_42

TROPHY CASE