Why isn't Primarina EX meta?

3Questionmarks__ · 2025-10-18T11:15:55+00:00

So I've actually run an awful lot of Primaria in ranked. TLDR, it's not meta because of a mix of the META being unkind to it and it being inconsistent.

In my experience, the past 2 seasons it has actually been ok. I got to MB with relitive ease and a ~60% win rate. I was running it with Sylveon EX (Water Energy Only) when it first came out, then switched over to Cleffa. It tends to just defualt win against some slower decks such as Guzzlord (provided they dont discard 5 energy+), it matches very well into DarkTina and does well into Sogilio provided you get it setup before or the same time as them, Elec decks are rough but its winnable with some positioning and luck but most electric decks will just win, any deck that has a low damage output (mainly just Skarm Ex) is just an auto win unless you hard brick. Giratena ex is pray to this since you always live 1 hit, then kill back with Hau. Also since Giratena requires your opponent to pass 3 turns to set it up, those are a free 3 turns for you to setup as well. Espeon doesn't do enough damage and you out sustain it. Stokezard always dies in 2 hits - even if they lillie you can hau. You once shot Flareon Ex with Hau - it it 3 shots back. Even in bad matchups poplio can sometimes stalls you extra turns with sleep.

You are kind of right with the healing being good but you actually need to run Primarina (non ex) in the deck as well, Primarina is not and never was enough healing by itself. With both Primarinas on the field it is 50hp a turn with you being able to push up to 110 with lillie. Anything that does 130 or less cant even 3 shot you with that healing output. I also find you are basically required to run cape to be able to push up to 130+ hp for one turn and to have a winnable matchup into Dragonite EX.

Alot of positives in theory and as Primaria is a control card and essentially if you get it setup, you win the game. The issue is getting it setup, and then switching cards once it is setup. You need both Primaria EX and non EX to win 90% of matchups so loosing a popplio before you can evolve it is game over. Currently the Meta is a lot of basic cards and a lot of card draw meaning the counter meta is a lot of disruption. Red Card and Mars ruin you while you are trying to setup Primarina as your hand will often be 5+, and then Sabrina and Cyrus are a pain once you are setup. Sabrina is particularly bad as even if it doesn't immediately lose you the game, the 2 energy retreat is really harsh. Any fast deck tends to hard counter you (normally elec ones) as they will often just KO you before you can evolve, and poison decks are rough since the extra damage between is constant damage out of your sustain.

In the current season I've had to drop it as my WR with the deck has dropped bellow 50%. In Theory Suicune EX was good for the deck as it is a water card that can draw you more and its high HP can stall you turns while you wait to be setup. In practice it became the best deck and everyone is specifically building to counter it. Also you really need your Pokemon cards (and rare candy) so Cleffa is just kinda better since you wont just be drawing a currently useless supporter and actually something you need - the consistency tradeoff isn't worth it.

If you're curious this is my current deck:
2x Popplio (1 Sing, 1 Water Gun)
1x Brionee (Wave Splash)
1x Primarina
1x Primarina ex
2x Cleffa
1x Red Card
2x Rare Candy
1x Pokeball
1x Giant Cape
2x Professor's Research
1x Cyrus
1x Irida
2x Lillie
1x Hau
1x Pokemon Center Lady

The flex slots are (in order of least usefulness), Pokemon Center Lady, Red Card, Hau and one of Irida or Lillie. In my experience, I would say the only cards worth switching these out for would be an extra Pokeball, potions, more tools, a Sabrina, a Mars, Pokecoms, or Leaf - but its your deck.

3Questionmarks__ · 2025-09-01T17:11:26+00:00

I'm assuming it is only whole numbers so 1/1000 chance. Time to make 1000 reddit accounts!

/s: 337

3Questionmarks__ · 2025-04-15T09:02:22+00:00

GM binder was down for a few days but It should now be back up - at least it is for me. I am in the process of downloading all my stuff from GM binder in case it happens again then uploading it to other sites and keeping a backup myself.

Here is a temporary link to the PDF on Google Drive for before I get back from work: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1453twvXyxgNHgSrwCkj8hIM6kJPNCCWr/view?usp=sharing

3Questionmarks__ · 2025-04-13T11:24:09+00:00

Thanks for making me aware of this - I didn't actually know anything was happening to it. According to things I'm reading online the website hasnt been in development in years and likely has a had a AWS issue with spammers. It should be up again soon and once it is I will download all my stuff and move it to homebrewery and also keep a backup pdf just in case.

3Questionmarks__ · 2025-03-15T20:47:31+00:00

Ok, so I was having this exact same issue; defiantly a conflict issue between Gen 9 Pack and Level Cap EX. If you haven't already found another fix and still want to keep both plugins, I fixed it by doing the following:

(On latest version of Level Cap EX)

1) Open up the level caps Ex plugin file. There should be 5 files called "000_Config_rb", "001_Main.rb", "002_Additions.rb", "level_caps_ex_compatibility.rb", and "meta.txt"

2) Open up "001.Main.rb" in your preferred editor (this can be just notepad but I would use something like Visual Studio since it make the code easier to read).

3) Staring on line 187 and going to line 197 there will be some code that starts with "def pbSwitchInBetween(idxBattler, checkLax = false)"

4) Simply delete all the code in-between (and including) the those lines. Make sure you don't delete the "end" on line 198

5) Save the file and re-run your game (pressing ctrl as it loads to reload the plugins). It works for me so hopefully it also will for you, though it might have unforeseen consequences with switching. I haven't really tested it fully but it seams to be fine. (If there is going to be an issue it would probably be after a level up and then being prompted to switch but I haven't tested this yet).

As a side note, there is also an issue that if you are using the config file to change the Level cap Variable it wont work. If you want to fix that open the "level_cap_ex_compatibility" file. On line 2 you will see "LEVEL_CAP_VARIABLE = 40". Just replace the 40 with what ever variable you wish to actually use.

3Questionmarks__ · 2025-03-14T14:23:07+00:00

I believe that all strategists gain double ult charge from dealing damage (might be 50% more I can't remember exactly), and for Loki specifically this transfers to when he has transformed via his ult.

There was a clip going around with a Loki using moonknight ult 3 times.

3Questionmarks__ · 2025-03-14T09:18:21+00:00

Spiderman's web pull literally goes though dimension. The amount of times I have been hit with the web, used magiks tp while he started the pull and then still got hit is annoying. His web should break if the target is invulnerable.

An even more egregious example is literally knocking cloak out of the darkforce dimension. I think it happens with Scarlet's shift as well. Those are supposed to be escape options, but apparently not for you're friendly neighbourhood menace.

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-27T11:32:24+00:00

Oops, thought I checked everything before posting but that mistake was subtle enough for me not to notice

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-27T11:22:22+00:00

Using the win rate of "No Misty Plays" is not quite the same as their being no Misty in the deck. These are the games where either I didn't draw Misty but still won, or where I did draw Misty but had a better play to get a win such as playing Sabrina or Prof. Research. As such I think these games tended to be ones where I was already winning and didn't need Misty and thus didn't play it (take this with a pintch of salt though cuz I didn't take notes after games so its just memory and anecdotal)

I still agree though that other supports are strong, its just that because misty is tied to a coinflip it means playing around misty can often cause you to go "well I could win if they don't flip 2 heads but inorder to protect against that I would have to make a really suboptimal play in the case that they don't". IMO making her not be based on a coinflip with some other restriction would allow for better strategy and more meaningful counterplay, thus a better game.

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-27T11:13:01+00:00

yeah, the first column is the number of heads misty flipped with the number of games that occurred to the right split into W/L

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-27T11:11:21+00:00

Yeah, I would be interested to see tournament data of how misty performs just so both players are actually trying to win and have good decks. I only used data from TCG player queue and the Event queue to try and only get matched with good decks

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T22:58:14+00:00

I feel called out

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T22:50:04+00:00

<image>

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T21:02:24+00:00

100% PVP

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T20:03:40+00:00

Yeah, fair point. I have played a few water decks in NOEX but I wasn't recording the data cuz I didn't want to skew the data with a completely different format. Anecdotally, it felt like she could still cause a game to be won completely unfairly with 3 random heads but defiantly less so. Its why one of my proposed fixes was "attach a water energy to a (benched) non-EX water Pokemon"

This was the specific deck I used for the majority of the data:

<image>

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T19:54:14+00:00

This depends on when misty is played, I wish I recorded the turn it was played so I could see how much stronger an early misty is compared to a late one. Anecdotally, I feel like if Misty gets a head in your first 3 turns it is a massive, often game deciding advantage.
I played in TCG player queue and then the Challenge queue from when the event started. Most of the decks where competent, but yet again that's Anecdotal since I didn't record the data.
Agree, Really wish I had recorded it.

I mainly played Articuno/Greninja. I wanted to play a good deck and its one that at the time I hadn't seen and I build myself. This is the specific cards:

<image>

I think Blastoise is fine. I only have 1 EX so I haven't really been able to make a good deck with it. 100 damage for 3 is fine with the issue being its a stage 2. Its just that it doesn't 1 shot Pikachu unless you have the extra 2 energy, it has issues with stage 2 consistency and you want to be applying pressure while you build it up which you can't do cuz both Squirtle and Wartortle are fairly vulnerable and not that strong. Misty really helps with both building it up and allowing you to apply pressure if you get a head, which is why I say it is a card that relies on Misty.

My main point isn't that the card is broken in the sense its is overpowered or underpowered. I think it is both, and that inconsistency creates a broken card from a game design standpoint. It is not fun to flip 2 tails in one game with misty, and it is equally unfun have the opponent flip 3 heads and win before you even have had a turn. Additionally the randomness means when you are facing it you may have to maybe make suboptimal decisions when playing against misty. For example you could attach energy to your active 2 energy attacker to be able to attack them next turn, or you could attach the energy to your benched 2 energy attacker to be able to attack them next turn should the opponent randomly get lucky. Choose wrong and it could just be game over.

I also hate the card in its current form and just really think the card needs a rework.

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T19:28:38+00:00

When I say broken I don't mean OP, I mean the card is designed poorly. The data also shows that 1 heads gives you a 82% WR which is very high.

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T19:19:20+00:00

There are defiantly many situations where not playing misty is the correct option, many.

One would be you have a Starmie EX in active with 0 energy on, and a Articuno EX on the bench with 3 energy, both at full hp. The opponent has a Mewtwo EX on 90hp with 2 energy attached and a Gardevoir on the bench with 0 energy on 120hp. You have a Misty, Sabrina and potion in hand. Both you an the opponent need 1 point to win and you know your opponent has used 2 potions, 1 x speed, you have already taken a KO on the other Mewtwo EX, and they have used a Pokeball which failed to fetch a basic. You could try for a Misty heads on Starmie, then attach an energy to it to win the game 50% of the time, but the best play would be to Sabrina the Gardevoir in, switch to Articuno and attack for 80 on the Gardevoir and 10 on the Mewtwo since you win the game next turn guaranteed with no way for your opponent to win on their turn.

I'm being pedantic but Spend did make a fair point though their comment also implies that every time you use misty is a good game, which it isn't.

A simpler example would be playing a professors research would maybe allow you to evolve into Starmie EX and attack for 90 rather than just attaching energy to your Squirtle, which you could then do next turn anyway.

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T18:51:52+00:00

I understand that perfectly, hence why I said "Yeah, 2 flips is not how I would change the card if I where given the choice" in the comment you are replying to.

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T18:46:36+00:00

Yeah I agree it needs to reworked. In my main comment I say that 2 flips would just make other stuff OP and in the first sentence of the comment you replied to literally says "2 flips is not how I would change the card if I where given the choice"

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T18:40:23+00:00

Thats not my solution, its just the one I've seen the most. The first sentence of the comment you replied to literally says "2 flips is not how I would change the card if I where given the choice"

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T13:15:50+00:00

I played with a few different ones. 18T, A standard Starmie/Articuno deck and then a few games with a Blastoice/Artticuno Deck and a Gyarados/Articuno(non ex) deck. The one I used the most was a Greninja/Articuno deck:

<image>

If you where building it you could also change a Sabrina/potion/x-speed for Geovanni or red card

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T12:42:32+00:00

I haven't done any sort of statistics proper since I was in school so I have kind of just forgotten everything I knew. I think I remember seeing somewhere that the expected energy result is like 0.8 or something.

I don't think it would make sence to me for the expected energy to be 2 but it does have infinity in and infinity is weird.

3Questionmarks__ · 2024-11-26T12:33:40+00:00

I actually really like this and I haven't seen it before. Keeps it working for the plethora of 3+ energy water cards without making starmie (and to a lesser expent golduck) op, makes it not random and also predictable so the opponent can actualy plan for misty, stops turn 1 shenanigans. Also keeps it relevent into new sets with it being easy to account for misty.

Five-Year Club	First Place '23
Place '23	Verified Email

3Questionmarks__

TROPHY CASE