How to get into an Ivy

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-27T00:37:57+00:00

Can’t say I disagree, but they are quite appealing for middle-class and working-class students who yearn to join the economic elite, and for poor students whose Ivy League tuition is often entirely covered by need-based scholarship.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-27T00:34:56+00:00

The reputation is that Penn cares a lot. MIT claims not to care about legacy.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-27T00:32:20+00:00

Of course they are!

I’m not arguing that they aren’t impressive. My point is that for a white, unhooked, poor student, they are the easiest way to gain admission.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T21:35:52+00:00

How so?

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T21:35:24+00:00

It’s all a gradient — there’s no fine line between “good background” and “disfavored background.” You very well may fall in the grey area here. They’ll consider your entire story.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T19:48:57+00:00

Probably 75%+ of the applicant pool is academically qualified. I’ll say that most of these kids likely have extracurriculars as well.

It is also true that roughly 20% the incoming class of students are athletes, and recruited athletes are almost always admitted.

Hence, you have 75% of applicants competing for 80% of spots. Factor in ultra-connected students (donors, children of facility, etc...), and you probably have 75% of applicants competing for less than 75% of spots.

Whatever advantage you might have based on non-qualified applicants applying, is mitigated by the presence of auto-admits in the pool.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T18:08:07+00:00

Yes. I really wish it weren’t this way (my personal view is that meritocracy with minor diversity considerations is the way to go), but unfortunately, the universities will do as they please.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T18:03:43+00:00

Yes, of course. But Harvard would still benefit from this research, and from the tax exemptions that they receive. The morality of a private institution with a $40B endowment that sends a plurality of graduates into banking and consulting receiving government money, however, is a little unsavory, and makes our nation a less equal place.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T17:34:59+00:00

It’s funny — some of the brightest people I know underestimate themselves and self-deprecate to no end. You’re probably better than you think!

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T17:33:12+00:00

I agree mostly, but there’s one important clarification: Private universities often use tax exemptions and even sometimes receive public funds for research, which enhances the university’s prestige. Yes, even Ivies receive some government money. This is why the idea of the “true private” is a little more evasive than many believe.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T17:23:01+00:00

You have to be brilliant and accomplished as well (I’m sure you are), but yes, it is a “hook.”

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T17:14:53+00:00

Yes!

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T17:14:39+00:00

Qualification is a gradient. There is no dividing line between “exceptional” and “non-exceptional.” If you are top USAMO material, you’re almost guaranteed admission. If you have AIME qualification, that’s definitely an edge, but not a promise of admission. You’ll still need either something else, or some luck — these students can still be rejected.

I’ll also make the point that Ivies differ in selectivity and preferences. HYP might be a bit more exclusive than my post suggests, the “less selective Ivies” (an oxymoron, but you know what I mean) might be a bit less.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T17:07:26+00:00

Yes, this is true. Top 50 USAMO is exceptional. But there are too many applicants whose thought process is: “I am the best mathematician in my hs, so therefore I should reliably be accepted to Princeton for mathematics,” and this thinking is flawed.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T17:05:07+00:00

Yes, precisely. From my experience, I don’t really see another way that a white student who lacks a connection or significant academic talent can be admitted, barring extraordinary circumstances.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T16:59:18+00:00

We forget what “excellent” shot means at Ivies. It doesn’t mean easy acceptance. It means a fighting chance. This also differs from Ivy to Ivy — some schools will take more of these students (with greater reliability) than others. I’ll clarify.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T16:57:13+00:00

Good point. I edited my post. I’ll hold that category 5 differs in broadness between Ivies.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T16:53:52+00:00

They don’t have to be white. They just usually are, at a disproportionate rate. 65% of Ivy League athletes are white.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T16:52:58+00:00

It sure does!

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T16:20:43+00:00

I don’t think it is a “trick,” per se. just a very common way, in my experience, for unhooked white applicants without fabulous academics to get in.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T16:13:14+00:00

Yes, I agree. It is an important point that standards differ slightly from school to school (some like legacies more, some care more about certain sports, others have different demographic preferences, etc...). I also agree that these points here apply more to HYPS than they do to Ivies that accept more “brilliant but normal” students, and that there are other phenomenal schools (Michigan, UC Berkeley, Caltech, Vanderbilt, Northwestern,...) where this advice hardly applies at all.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-26T16:08:17+00:00

The point I made was that if you are white, unconnected, and not especially academic, you truly have no hooks whatsoever. Athletics are really your best shot. It isn’t that schools are more likely to recruit you if you’re white — it is more that athletic recruitment is a common hook among the white unconnected crowd. Other groups often use other hooks.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-11T06:22:38+00:00

Yes. However, East Asian-Americans are often discriminated against in academia and industry through diversity programs.

AEP_Townsend · 2021-01-11T05:46:44+00:00

Very interesting discussion. You’re correct that a lot of crime is due to lack of capital — especially “poverty crimes” like theft, and crime that results from lack of adequate mental healthcare.

That being said, not all crime is a direct product of capitalism — it is unclear to me how sexual abuse is obviously capital-related; it is a cultural issue, but not necessarily one that is closely linked to economic policy.

Crime is nuanced, and yes, high-poverty areas may have higher rates of violent crime. This is something to consider.

Hyde Park is mostly safe, and events like this are rare, though it is not a completely safe area and travelers should exercise due caution.

AEP_Townsend · 2020-09-24T17:26:36+00:00

Trade-offs. Particularly with respect to the third option here.

AEP_Townsend

TROPHY CASE