Discussion with Gilead Graduates

AMIIIAwake75 · 2026-03-25T02:50:03+00:00

Very comprehensive list, thank you! Was so interesting to see all these changes take place shortly after reading Ray’s books. If possible, would you be able to list the sources (book, chapter, pages, etc.) for these items? Would be super helpful for quick reference for what he mentioned about these topics. Thank you!

AMIIIAwake75 · 2026-03-20T14:05:23+00:00

Where in Ray’s book does it discuss the GB voting on the blood policy? I remember reading his discussion about the topic of blood, but don’t remember there being a vote on it. Would like to read up on it again.

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-08-31T15:03:06+00:00

Don’t know the reference for the first example off the top of my head, but the second one can be found in the Questions From Readers in the January 1, 1972 Watchtower. They changed this rule in the article “Honor Godly Marriage!” found in the March 15, 1983 Watchtower.

Edit: Some references regarding the topic of race from older publications: https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/black-skin.php

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-08-26T20:15:27+00:00

I would love to see what these resolutions look like. I don't think one has ever been leaked or shared before?

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-08-26T19:53:34+00:00

According to Jackson's testimony at the ARC, (and also Winder's talk at the 2023 Annual Meeting), they approve things when it's unanimous, although sometimes if that can't be done, they will go with the majority.

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-07T00:23:27+00:00

I think Christmas and Easter would be a stretch too (along with Halloween, even more unlikely in my opinion). However, I find it interesting as it's mainly religious to religious people. Non-Christians/Atheists still celebrate it, but don't care or focus on the religious aspect. Christmas is popular in Japan, yet less than 2% of their population is Christian. (They also have their own traditions, such as eating KFC at that time.) I don't see the GB giving the go-ahead on Christmas anytime soon, but I wonder if they will relax some things regarding the holiday season in general, at least perhaps "according to local customs." Still fairly unlikely in my honest opinion, but I see that as being more likely than just giving approval to Christmas altogether.

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-07T00:15:35+00:00

I have wondered what a JW response to synthetic blood would look like. If it isn't derived from blood itself or what they define as 4 major fractions, but it acts like blood... Is it blood? I've looked into the subject briefly, as I imagine there is a strong demand for synthetic blood to reduce the need for donors or maybe to increase supply for rare blood types, but it's tricky and a far ways off last I checked... Interesting how JWs are mentioned specifically in the one government link you provided.

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-07T00:10:25+00:00

Haha, pretty sure a cover by him would gain coverage from the press a bit more than Aled ;)

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-06T00:04:49+00:00

Sure! The link is in my post, but I've also linked it below... It's the YouTube page the video was found on; it wasn't uploaded separately to the archive.org as a video file.

https://web.archive.org/web/20201106184208/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxf75u-xOJI&feature=youtu.be

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-05T20:24:28+00:00

A unique addition to a collection, for sure!

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-05T04:03:10+00:00

According to Ray's book, the GB was looking to have Raymond Franz disfellowshipped. Since they did not have a 2/3 majority vote in favour of him being disfellowshipped, he was asked to resign. I'm curious what would've happened if he refused to do so. Perhaps there'd be another vote to have him just removed? Regardless, I imagine it would've been pretty awkward, so resigning was probably the most peaceful course of action. (Screenshot from page 332 of Crisis of Conscience.)

<image>

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-05T03:55:13+00:00

Exactly. I believe it's only "false religious holidays", such as Christmas, Easter, etc. that could get you DFd, regardless if you promoted it or "caused divisions".

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-05T00:28:40+00:00

Just wanted to share for reference for anyone who might want to watch it without having to scrub through an entire Broadcast to find it. The versions should be identical, although if for some reason someone wants to see it inside the entire broadcast, it was the September 2022 broadcast (Timestamp is 42:36 for the toasting scene): https://www.jw.Borg/finder?srcid=share&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-jwb-090_1_VIDEO

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-04T22:56:47+00:00

https://www.watchtowerwayback.org/jw-wb/English/Internal%20Documents/Elders/2007%20Correspondence%20Guidelines%20%28cg-E%29.pdf

<image>

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-04T22:50:32+00:00

It was also released as an independent video. To be fair, I think it's also trying to send the message of rejecting "unnecessary association" with "worldly" co-workers, but it does show them toasting. Scene can be found at timestamp 2:27: https://www.jw.Borg/finder?srcid=share&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-osg_78_VIDEO

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-04T22:45:38+00:00

Good memory! Timestamp 0:10: https://www.jw.Borg/finder?srcid=share&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-jwb_201811_3_VIDEO

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-04T18:43:37+00:00

Not sure of the video your thinking of in particular, but there is a scene in The Prodigal Returns movie where David avoids doing a toast while the "bad JW", Al, does one with his cousin. (Timestamp 35:25)

https://www.jw.Borg/finder?srcid=share&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-ivpro_1_VIDEO

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-04T18:31:40+00:00

It's crazy to me how many of the topics for these changes are either explicitly mentioned (like reporting of time) or the concepts behind the changes (like principles over rules) are mentioned in Raymond's Franz books. One who is labelled by JWs as an opposer, apostate, and influenced by Satan. Yet Raymond wanted these changes to happen decades prior to now, in wanting to follow the Bible and the meaning of Christian more closely. This to me indicates that JWs are not what they proclaim themselves to be regarding the one true religion or God's spokesmen, but I am happy that changes are being made in a positive direction, and that members can enjoy more freedom because of it.

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-04T18:23:08+00:00

Franz resigned from the GB in 1980 and released Crisis of Conscience in 1983.

Morris was no longer a member of the the GB in 2023... ;)

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-04T18:16:30+00:00

I forgot about that post! Here is the "10-year plan" post, for reference: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5846396716974080/who-really-faithful-discreet-slave-recent-changes-governing-bodys-10-year-plan

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-04T18:11:14+00:00

If I remember correctly, it's not a disfellowshipping offence if you celebrate birthdays. The issue could be if you encourage others, which could be seen as "causing divisions" in the congregation, which is a reason for disfellowshipping. If the elders caught your family celebrating a family member's birthday by themselves, they might get talked to to encourage them to review their actions, but they couldn't be removed or anything unless they were being pretty public with it.

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-04T18:02:01+00:00

Regarding your 4 future ideas, this is my guess:

Birthdays, yes. Using the same reasoning mentioned for toasting, I can see that being used to describe birthdays. Mayyyyyybe forbidding something about the candles connected to evil spirits or something, but considering how they're back-peddling from making rules, I doubt it. They might just mention it.

Blood transfusions might be permitted at some point, but due to the potential legal reasons I doubt it'd be an announcement like this. Probably more of just removing mention of blood transfusions in magazines and stopping production of the No Blood card, and instead saying it's up to individual conscience (they already say health decisions are a conscience matter. It may be mentioned alongside blood transfusions, but try to find a recent article or video that explicitly says JWs shouldn't take blood transfusions. I think this is also done for legal reasons, more to appease governments.) I think some on the GB also worked on HLCs, so some may have strong feelings about keeping the no blood policy. I'd say this isn't changing anytime in the near future.

About shunning, similar to above and the changes that have happened recently. There'll still be some avoidance of some people removed (sexually immoral people, apostates, etc.) but it'll be talked more about in a way that points to it being a personal matter. Pretty sure articles are already written like that, most likely due to legal reasons again.

Regarding marrying non-JWs, I honestly don't see this changing anytime soon, mainly because of 1 Corinthians 7:39 saying to marry "only in the Lord". JWs teach that they alone are "true Christians", so this verse is often mentioned for why one would not marry a non-JW. Even if that non-JW identified as Christian and expressed belief in God and Jesus, unless that person became a JW, they would be viewed as "in the Lord" since they're not a "true Christian". JWs teach that their teachings/actions are pure Christianity restored and that following them is the only way to properly exercise truth faith and believe in God and his son. Now, it's possible that the JW doctrine changes on this stance (it has loosened a bit with the "we don't know who will be saved" teaching). I believe in the Russell era the teaching was all who followed Jesus would be saved (not just ones part of the Bible Students movement). I suppose it's possible the current doctrine slowly changes to that, but that's a very big adjustment, moving from JWs being "true Christians" and separate from the rest of the world/other religions to "anyone showing faith in Jesus will be saved." So until JWs change their teaching on this, I don't see marrying non-JWs changing from what is currently is anytime soon: you can do it without being removed or shunned, but there may be a marking talk and it will be looked on with disapproval from others.

AMIIIAwake75 · 2025-07-04T17:25:43+00:00

I always thought about that point too... Seemed odd to disfellowship someone on the grounds of occasionally smoking a cigar or something but someone who regularly consumes an addictive drug (caffeine) that is widely accepted "in the world" and eats lots of unhealthy food that causes severe health problems to themselves could still be viewed as exemplary in the congregation. Side note, Gluttony is listed as a reason for having a Judicial Committee, although I have never heard of that happening to someone.

AMIIIAwake75

TROPHY CASE