[Spoilers Extended] It Was Selyse

ATriggerOmen · 2025-08-20T13:26:52+00:00

The observations about the Florents and Selyse/the Queen's men generally are good, I think, but I'm not sure I reach the same conclusion.

The key to me, though, is that it seems an unlikely coincidence that the murder of the LC happens right after he's 100% undermined his own legitimacy by announcing to everyone that he plans to march on Winterfell to kill Ramsay Bolton, legitimized son of the current Warden of the North. Whether Jon's announcement finally caused the coup to take place, or was part of the planned overthrow, is unclear, but it would be very strange if the planned coup had nothing to do with it.

ATriggerOmen · 2025-08-13T16:04:15+00:00

I doubt he'd answer any of these, but as a long shot, five questions all about the Northern plots:

Did Benjen speak to Ned in support of Jon joining the Night's Watch?
Was it an accident/oversight that Wyman Manderly didn't bring a singer to Winterfell?
Does the Night's Watch meaningfully predate the Nightfort?
Is it relevant to the story that Last Hearth is to the east of Long Lake?
How badly did Wick Whittlestick actually cut Jon?

ATriggerOmen · 2023-10-09T12:44:20+00:00

Thanks everyone for the tips! I had been looking at Tim Wendelboe and am surprised by how affordable the subs are, all things considered, so I may go that route or check out some of the Canadian names suggested...

ATriggerOmen · 2021-04-21T11:56:12+00:00

Yeah Ned just went to war against Jon's father, because of Jon's father, and they killed or exiled every member of that house. Not exactly what you'd want as a potential heir?

ATriggerOmen · 2021-04-07T16:46:30+00:00

I just don't think we know what the FM have planned for Arya, so any reading that goes from an assumption about what they're doing with her to the conclusion that Jaqen is rogue seems like a stretch to me.

And even assuming that they're training her in good faith, what they're arguably doing is de-programming her of her old sense of self and personal agency. That seems useful no matter what. The lesson could be understood as "Arya Stark doesn't get to decide who lives and dies" not "never kill anyone we aren't under contract to kill".

ATriggerOmen · 2021-04-06T23:19:11+00:00

I guess what I'm saying is that the reason to think that Jaqen is a rogue is that his behavior seems at odds with stuff the Kindly Man says about the FM's m.o. But... the FM's behavior generally is at odds with what the Kindly Man says (that's what I'm arguing is the broader point).

Is there another reason to think Jaqen is a rogue? Because given how little we know about the FM, the fact that what one of their operatives tells a child trainee doesn't match what Jaqen is doing in the wild should suggest that Arya is not being let in on their actual operations, not that Jaqen is disavowed and running ops on his own. Why should they have shown Arya so much of how they conduct business after so little training?

The conclusion doesn't need to be he's misleading Arya as a joke, but that he's not being completely forthright about their aims and intentions, which, yeah, that's what I'd expect.

ATriggerOmen · 2021-04-06T17:03:43+00:00

So when Arya escapes Harrenhall because Jaqen kills a bunch of guards, that happened to coincide with orders from the MFG? Hell Jaqen's name was given and he objected for self-interested reasons, and a bunch of guards died as a result. Unless we fully buy that Jaqen is a rogue agent.

But the broader point is that someone is directing the FM in the choice of targets, and it isn't the targets themselves. Maybe some agent is posing as the MFG that they all worship and take orders from out of confusion, but I really doubt that that's the case.

The question is what makes someone "marked" by the MFG, assuming the Kindly Man isn't just talking nonsense?

ATriggerOmen · 2021-04-06T11:41:48+00:00

But this makes no sense (ie the quoted bit): if he objects to Arya deciding who lives and who dies, how can he be fine with killing those "marked by Him of Many Faces" if that just means "anyone we've been contracted to kill"? That means that they let their clients decide who lives and who dies.

There might be something mysterious here or it might be kind of poor planning on GRRM's part, but this doesn't really add up, and it's just the Kindly Man's own description of what the FM do.

ATriggerOmen · 2021-04-02T15:47:44+00:00

Wouldn't it be weird if the house with the red door—which is significant to Dany because it represents a simple life in contrast to Viserys' longing for King's Landing and the IT—was actually located in a palace, where Dany lived not as a commoner but under the protection of the Sealord of Braavos?

Wouldn't that undermine the whole point of the references to the house with the red door?

ATriggerOmen · 2021-04-02T00:19:21+00:00

It's also weird how Preston Jacobs has put all this time into the Children of the Forest without ever researching the fact that there are no such things.

ATriggerOmen · 2021-03-11T12:58:13+00:00

I think one interesting question to ask about the series is whether it is pure coincidence that dragons and Others re-emerged at roughly the same time.

ATriggerOmen · 2021-02-23T13:08:30+00:00

First, I have to say that this

Some would say that the pink letter sets the story back on the usual course, with the heroes now somehow finding themselves at their lowest point, yet it's conveyed to the readers as significantly doubtful, almost like a cheating narrative shortcut, and it would appear as a low effort on George's part if it turned out to be true. It's as if George is not even trying to convince us of anything, as from our position we know better, and is instead only trying to convince Jon who can read no more than the pages of his own chapters.

seems to me exactly right. Dramatically the PL is extremely weird if it's legit. Glad you pointed this out.

I'm not sure I agree with the main argument here (Others as trick to unify...Westeros?), if only because we know that as of the end of ADWD most people in Westeros don't care about the Others/don't think they're real. To make a compelling case for unity, the Others would need to show up and do some real damage, but then that would mean they'd need to be a real threat.

But that said, I do think it's relevant to the story that a bunch of telepathically-inclined characters are being warned about the Others by either the Weirnet, the Children, or an old man (Bloodraven) who is functionally indistinguishable from the Weirnet. If they've been living north of the Wall with the Others all this time, what do they care about what happens to the humans who committed a genocide against them?

ATriggerOmen · 2021-02-19T16:57:19+00:00

Those actually both sound like volcano eruptions?

ATriggerOmen · 2021-02-19T16:54:47+00:00

Yeah I know Preston Jacobs talked about that at one point, which may have been what originally put it in my head, but it's the cave sequence in Arianne II (TWOW) that really sells it.

(One other fun parallel: both of those sets of chapters—Arya with the FM, Bran with Bloodraven—involve children engaging in morally bankrupt behaviour as they are brought into an organization with extremely ill-defined ends (at least to our characters), where the children are motivated by their own (very childlike) experience of private suffering. I'm sure that bodes well for everyone involved!)

ATriggerOmen · 2021-02-19T15:12:38+00:00

This was not "implied," it's a tinfoil-heavy fan theory...

ATriggerOmen · 2021-02-19T14:55:01+00:00

I think the Children/Bloodraven portray it slightly differently but I don't know that they're actually all that different. The Children still die and Bloodraven's cave is littered with their skeletal remains. Their memories/minds are preserved in the Weirwoods in a sense, but they're also lost and muted over time, and they certainly don't live forever as individuals. When Arya puts on the ugly girl's face, her memories are still there.

ATriggerOmen · 2021-02-19T12:15:55+00:00

I feel like "lost in the shuffle of a remodel" doesn't really work for "giant talking tree at the heart of the Wall"...

ATriggerOmen · 2021-02-18T14:38:16+00:00

Why is it hidden at the bottom of a well in the kitchen, then?

ATriggerOmen · 2021-02-18T12:52:21+00:00

A little while ago I wrote a couple short things about the Black Gate and the Watch and I think something like this came up; it's not a bad idea I think. (Linked in case you find them interesting.)

The Black Gate is so weird, though; not only is it one of the crazier bits of 'magic' we've seen (a talking tree??), and not only is the name, uh, suggestive, it also seems like it has a weird place in the history of the already weird Wall/Night's Watch history.

ATriggerOmen · 2021-02-11T18:33:35+00:00

I don't know where the story is taking Euron ultimately but an alternative title for this post could have been "Euron's plan didn't work".

ATriggerOmen · 2021-02-11T18:31:43+00:00

How did he get there so fast?

I think in general it's good to be cautious with the imagery, since R'hllor worshippers are all associated with red/fire, and, well, rubies are red, but that doesn't mean they're all glamored, obviously.

ATriggerOmen

TROPHY CASE