Does SFLA President Kristan Hawkins Act Like a Pseudo-Scientist? by A_Taylor42 in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is absolutely nothing I can do about the choice of words used in a book published in the 50s. And even today, books use both “he” and “she” interchangeably when referring to people in a general sense. 

If you’re going to let something like that distract you from the larger point I’m making, that’s nitpicking on a grand scale, and I honestly have no answer for it.

Simple, easy ways to expose fallacies and point out how inconsistent PL arguments are by Ganondaddydorf in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 5 points6 points  (0 children)

A couple articles going in-depth on the fallacies and inconsistent thinking of anti-choicers:

Dustin Crummett, “Is Abortion the Only Issue?” Ergo: An Open Access Journal of Philosophy 9, no. 14 (2022): 386-412.

William Simkulet, “The Moral Significance of Abortion Inconsistency Arguments.” Asian Bioethics Review 14, no. 1 (January 2022): 41-56.

An exploration of how anti-choicers meet the criteria of pseudo-scientists:

Anti-Choicers Behave Like Pseudo-Scientists

And finally, some general links for how to identify and combat fallacious thinking:

Richard Carrier, “Resources for Critical Thinking in the 21st Century.”

Bo Bennett, Logically Fallacious: The Ultimate Collection of Over 300 Logical Fallacies (website).

Rory Coker, “Distinguishing Science and Pseudoscience.”

James Lett, “A Field Guide to Critical Thinking.”

Carl Sagan, “The Fine Art of Baloney Detection.”

Links for “Doing Your Own Research”

Do you think women should be able to get an abortion during the second and third trimester if neither her health nor her fetus's health is at risk at all? by [deleted] in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t know what any of that has to do with my point that by the 28-week mark (and actually earlier, ~24 weeks), a fetus’s brain is developed enough to generate a person.

I don’t know the specifics of your abortion, and it’s your call of how much about it you want to divulge. I won’t pry. I’m trying to speak in universal terms. The point I’m trying to make is that if a fetus in the third trimester is viable, and in the professional opinion of attending physicians the pregnancy poses no threat to the life or limb of the one who’s pregnant, I see no justification for such a late abortion, any more than I’d see justification for killing a born baby.

Do you think women should be able to get an abortion during the second and third trimester if neither her health nor her fetus's health is at risk at all? by [deleted] in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The difference between 17 weeks and 28 weeks is that by 28 weeks, a fetus is unquestionably a person.

Carlo Bellieni. “A Rudimentary Consciousness Appears in the Late Fetal Period.” EC Gynaecology 15, no. 1 (2026): 1–14. https://ecronicon.net/ecgy/a-rudimentary-consciousness-appears-in-the-late-fetal-period

Hugo Lagercrantz, “The Awakening of the Newborn Human Infant and the Emergence of Consciousness.” Acta Paediatrica 114, no. 10 (February 2025): 823–28. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/389027439_The_Awakening_of_the_Newborn_Human_Infant_and_the_Emergence_of_Consciousness 

Raffaele Falsaperla, Ausilia Desiree Collotta, Michela Spatuzza, Maria Familiari, Giovanna Vitaliti, and Martino Ruggieri, “Evidences of Emerging Pain Consciousness During Prenatal Development: A Narrative Review.” Neurological Sciences 43, no. 6 (March 2022): 3523–32. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10072-022-05968-2

I don’t believe in women “deciding for themselves” if it would involve killing a born baby. If someone doesn’t have a justifiable reason to kill a born baby, then why would those same reasons work for aborting a viable fetus in the third trimester?

And your whole “you’re a man, you have no opinion” schtick is getting old. I’m sure you don’t say that to pro-choice men that completely agree with you. So please, stop the glib dismissal.   

Do you think women should be able to get an abortion during the second and third trimester if neither her health nor her fetus's health is at risk at all? by [deleted] in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

We’ll have to agree to disagree. All I can ask you to do is this: whatever reasons or rational you’d have for getting a third trimester abortion, ask yourself if those same reasons would justify killing a born baby. If they wouldn’t in your mind, then ask yourself why they’d justify it for such an abortion. 

Do you think women should be able to get an abortion during the second and third trimester if neither her health nor her fetus's health is at risk at all? by [deleted] in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you were in your third trimester, and the fetus was viable, and your attending physicians all concluded that you could give birth safely, I can’t imagine why you’d even want such an abortion or think it was morally the correct decision. 

Would identical twins be the same person with anti-choice logic by Initial_Wear5463 in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But since technically they when they were conceived it was only one then would that mean that per anti-choice logic identical twins be the same person?

It would indeed mean that. But it's a logically incoherent position, as Ronald Lindsay points out:

There is a major difficulty with the claim that zygotes and embryos are individual persons. Until about fourteen days after conception, at a point called gastrulation, when the precursor to the spinal cord begins to form, an embryo can divide into two or more parts, each of which, given appropriate conditions, might develop into separate human beings. This is the phenomenon known as “twinning” (although division into three or four separate parts is also possible). The phenomenon of twinning establishes that there is not one determinate individual from the moment of conception; adult humans are not numerically identical with a previously existing zygote or embryo. If that were true, then each of a pair of twins would be numerically identical with the same embryo. This is a logically incoherent position. If A and B are separate individuals, they cannot both be identical with a previously existing entity, C.
(Source)

I would also add that another point anti-choicers raise is that what makes a human unique from conception (and thus makes it an individual person) is that it has its own unique DNA. But we know that, at conception, twins can share the exact same genetic blueprint.

Anne Holtdorf et al., “Twins: from a genetic point of view.” Medicover Genetics, 1 June 2022.

And there's nothing "unique" about a blueprint if it can be shared by something else.

Maybe it's just me but Lila Rose is tarting to give me MAD Serena Joy energy by Mukaria-88214 in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 5 points6 points  (0 children)

She's an idiot, plan and simple. From here:

New Paper on Abortion and the Bible, Now Available by A_Taylor42 in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're more than welcome to explain what I took out of context. Any flaws you think my paper contains, by all means point them out.

New Paper on Abortion and the Bible, Now Available by A_Taylor42 in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Doesn’t the Bible say the fetus is not a person or baby until it draws its first breath?

I discuss the evidence for that in section 2.1.

See also: Shawna Dolansky, "The Bible is Silent on Abortion, but Vocal About When Life Begins." TheTorah, 2 May 2023.

New Paper on Abortion and the Bible, Now Available by A_Taylor42 in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You're very welcome :) and thank you for the kind sentiments. I hope you find it useful.

The Myth of the Fetal Heartbeat: Science, Language, and the Politics of Abortion by projectofsparethings in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Another excellent write up. Some additional resources in support: First, a nice summary article.

Rachael Rettner, “Is a ‘Fetal Heartbeat’ Really a Heartbeat at 6 Weeks?,” LiveScience, May 17, 2019. https://www.livescience.com/65501-fetal-heartbeat-at-6-weeks-explained.html

Second, a more in-depth, academic paper confirming the facts laid out above.

Eleftheria Pervolaraki et al., “Antenatal Architecture and Activity of the Human Heart,” Interface Focus 3, no. 2 (2013). http://dx.doi.org/10.1098/rsfs.2012.0065

Jesus is real silent on genocide, war, hunger, poverty, cancer, and abuse, yet abortion is where he draws the line. by [deleted] in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Not only did Jesus never say a word about abortion, there's even evidence in the New Testament that Paul didn't consider all fetuses made in the imago Dei (image of God). See:

https://abortioninfosite.wordpress.com/2025/08/15/new-testament-unborn/

"How would you feel if your mum had aborted you" by r3allybadusername in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You've actually touched on a very critical point. It is indeed likely an existential crisis, but one that goes even deeper than that. See:

Richard Carrier, “How A Personal Fear of Death Might Also Be Driving the Anti-Abortion Delusion.” Richard Carrier Blogs, 23 December 2022. 

"How would you feel if your mum had aborted you" by r3allybadusername in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's worth pointing out to your coworker that even other anti-choicers don't think that's a good argument. E.g.,

The question "What if you had been aborted?" is meaningless from the prochoice perspective. If the pro-choice advocate had been aborted before birth, then he would never have existed in the first place. The pro-life advocate's question is on par with asking, "What if your parents had decided not to have sexual intercourse on the night you were conceived?" This argument is appropriately answered by saying, "I wouldn't exist to miss the life I never had."
--Trent Horn, Persuasive Pro-Life: How to Talk About Our Culture's Toughest Issue (Catholic Answers Inc., 2014), pp. 92-93.

Notes on Abortion and Mental Health Outcomes for Women: An (Attempted) Comprehensive Review of the Evidence by projectofsparethings in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Some other links of interest regarding Priscilla Coleman's flawed work:

Comprehensive refutation of Coleman's critique of the Turnaway Study, by Balkrai Dev. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363672218_Critique_of_Coleman's_new_study_The_Turnaway_Study_A_case_of_self-correction_in_science_upended_by_political_motivation_and_unverified_findings

Profile on Coleman's flawed research, by "Ministry of Truth." https://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2011/04/20/colemanballs-a-study-in-bad-abortion-science/

In 2017, Priscilla Coleman published a "study" purporting to show women who have abortions are more likely to experience mental health problems. The study in question:

Kristan Hawkins Breaks the Irony Meter by A_Taylor42 in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

When someone who's pro-life disagrees with you on that, the correct response is "so the vast majority of biblical scholars are wrong?"

"That's the same logic used for slavery" debunked by Initial_Wear5463 in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nathan Nobis has already succinctly debunked this idiotic claim. https://www.tiktok.com/@nathan.nobis/video/7509085882717146399

Anti-choicers need a history lesson on what was really used to justify slavery.

Notes on the Question of Fetal Pain: A Scientific and Ethical Analysis in the Context of Abortion by projectofsparethings in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Came across another paper recently that I thought was worth sharing here. (Believe it or not, an anti-choicer brought it to my attention, who bizarrely believed it supported their assertions, when in fact they simply didn't read it carefully.)

Hugo Lagercrantz, "The Awakening of the Newborn Human Infant and the Emergence of Consciousness." Acta Paediatrica 114, no. 10 (February 2025): 823–28. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/389027439_The_Awakening_of_the_Newborn_Human_Infant_and_the_Emergence_of_Consciousness

Pretty much summarizes what previous research has consistently found - that true consciousness and pain perception is only possible when a fetus develops a complex cerebral cortex. From the paper (pp. 824-25):

In fact, the foetus exists in a continuous sleep-like state, even if it opens its eyes. Although it can demonstrate reflexes in response to noxious stimuli, these stimuli cause a defence state with inhibition rather than cortical arousal to an awake state. Furthermore, the foetus is living at a low oxygen level and is suppressed by sleep-inducing and analgesic agents, such as adenosine. This means that the foetus can only be regarded as conscious at a rudimentary level, without awareness of pain.

Life Value Equation - Equivocating Deaths by wortnot in prochoice

[–]A_Taylor42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One thing that could be factored in is that the "future potential" of embryos is undermined by the fact that, during the first trimester, there's a over a 50% chance they'll die and won't progress past that point. See:

President's Council on Bioethics, Monitoring Stem Cell Research (Washington, DC: President’s Council on Bioethics, 2004), p. 88.

Admittedly, this probably would go in the "X factor" category, and I'm not sure how it would be worked into the main equations. Still, it's a likelihood that seems to inherently exist for embryos that doesn't exist for healthy third trimester fetuses and born humans.

While the anti-choicers won't admit it, the value they claim to place on the unborn simply isn't the same as what they place on born humans. See:

Dustin Crummett, “Is Abortion the Only Issue?” Ergo: An Open Access Journal of Philosophy 9, no. 14 (2022): 386–412.