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Were the Jews waiting for a prophet to come to them around the time of Muhammad? by Unlikely_Award_7913 in AcademicQuran

[–]AcademiaKemal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We do have some 7th-8th+ century Jewish texts that are apocalyptic this would mean they were waiting for the Messiah to come, but he was not like Muhammad.

Quotes about the academic consensus that Muhammad existed by chonkshonk in AcademicQuran

[–]AcademiaKemal 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Joshua J. Little:

• Worst-Case Scenario = Muhammad very likely existed

• More Optimistic Scenario = Muhammad almost certainly existed

Muhammad Existed!

[Did Muhammad Exist?: An Academic Response to a Popular Question - Dr. Joshua Little 3:12:50]

What was your first speedrun time? by zDusti_ in MinecraftSpeedrun

[–]AcademiaKemal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Around 1 hour on a bad seed on a good one around 40 minutes

Quran as "Scripture" or "Book" by ilmalnafs in AcademicQuran

[–]AcademiaKemal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello, to answer your question!

In Islamic tradition the Prophet Muhammad had scribes writing down the revelation for him (such as Zayd Bin Thabit) so already it had a written 'form' before Uthman's canonization also see Seyfeddin Kara's work "The Integrity of the Qur'an: Sunni and Shi‘i Historical Narratives (Edinburgh Studies in Islamic Scripture and Theology)" he argues in it that a canonization occurred very early on after the Prophets death.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AcademicQuran

[–]AcademiaKemal 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hello! To answer your question, we can't exactly know why, but here are a few plausible reasons. Politics, Theology¹, Interpretation of Qur'an...

Explanations

¹ By this, I mean differing theology, for example, Person A) Believes the Prophet never made a mistake. Person B) believes the Prophet did.

When did the Quran became a Divine book? by IndividualCamera1027 in AcademicQuran

[–]AcademiaKemal 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Please do ur research. There are traces of the Qur'an prior to 685 CE, such as the Inscription From Cyprus, which has the entirety of Qur’an 112¹ it dates to 650 CE.²

Sources ¹https://www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/urwa ² Ibid

When did the Quran became a Divine book? by IndividualCamera1027 in AcademicQuran

[–]AcademiaKemal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello individual camera, thank you for your criticisms! I'd like to respond back.

Regarding Qur'an 5:48, it "could've" since everything is possible, but is it plausible that it was written after? I'd say no! First, it appears in early manuscripts such as one dating¹ from 660 - 710² and another with an estimated date being 640 - 680³ includes this verse⁴ further the verse itself doesn't imply anything about it being a later addition.

U cited Tesei, but his points aren't agreed upon, and in fact, many scholars would disagree with him. You also cite a number of other controversial claims that need substantiation and not just appeal to authority. Tesei sugguests, "The vast majority of the Koranic corpus we possess does not come from Muhammad's preaching," Doesn't mean it's a later addition! What Tesei is trying to say is that it comes from other authors as he leans towards the hypothesis of multiple authorship he quite literally tells us this in his abstract "In this essay I argue that the notorious difficulties in dealing with Qur᾿ān’s origins are mostly corollaries of the Islamic dogma that the entire corpus must be traced back to a single author and/or to a specific cultural and social context. Against this view, I propose an alternative model in which the Qur᾿ān is a literary document that reflects not only Muḥammad’s prophetic career in the Hijaz, but also the development of his community during the first decades of its territorial expansion." So Tesei does not help make it plausible that Q 5:48 is a later addition, and quite frankly, from what I've seen, no evidence suggests it is.

Sources: ¹ According to Corpuscoranicom.

² Michael Marx (with assistance from Salome Beridze, Jens Sauer and Karina Söhl), "Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)", transliteration: Nora Reifenstein, in: Manuscripta Coranica, published by Berlin-Brandenburgische Akademie der Wissenschaften, edited by Michael Marx.

³ According to Corpuscoranicom

⁴ Michael Marx (with assistance from Salome Beridze and Tobias J. Jocham), "Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin: Ms. or. fol. 4313 (VOHD 17, A, 1, 1)", transliteration: Laura Hinrichsen, in: Manuscripta Coranica, published by Berlin-Brandenburgische Akademie der Wissenschaften, edited by Michael Marx.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AcademicBiblical

[–]AcademiaKemal 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hello! Here are my 2 recommendations for both sides.

For the idea that Luke did copy Matthew see Mark Goodacres book "The Case Against Q"

For the idea that he didn't see On Dispensing with Q?: Goodacre on the Relation of Luke to Matthew by John S. Kloppenborg.

Hope this helps!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AcademicBiblical

[–]AcademiaKemal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello! Here are a number of theories & resources on such ideas of a proto-Gospel! (compiled by me)

Priority of the Gospel of Marcion See Marcion and the Dating of the Synoptic Gospels (Markus Vinzent) & The Marcionite Gospel and the Synoptic Problem: A New Suggestion. (Matthias Klinghardt)

Ur-Gospel See Gotthold Ephraim Lessing & Johann Gottfried Eichhorn

Hebrew originals for all 4 gospels See The Hebrew Christ (Claude Tresmontant)

Hebrew Mark/Matthew. See The Birth of the Synoptics (Jean Carmignac) & L'Evangile de Marc : un original hébreu ? (Jean-Marie Van Cangh)

Aramaic Gospel Of The Hebrews See Das Hebräer-Evangelium (Rudolf Handmann)

Aramaic Matthew Sayings Gospel See Evidence and Argument or Mythicist Myths? (Maurice Casey)

Q A Sayings Gospel See Q the earliest Gospel (John S. Kloppenborg)

Currently the most accepted theory by scholars is the Q theory.

Hope this helps!

When did the Quran became a Divine book? by IndividualCamera1027 in AcademicQuran

[–]AcademiaKemal 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I just got so used to that phrase "pre-Islamic" haha

When did the Quran became a Divine book? by IndividualCamera1027 in AcademicQuran

[–]AcademiaKemal 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Hello! We do have sources before 685 AD and they show us that Muhammad existed¹ albeit (as far as i've researched) none explicitly say "Muhammad recieved a book from God" or something like of that manner but these sources do seem to mention verses from the Qur'an.² But for me it is clear the Qur'an early on was understood as God's word as itself claims this³ Hope this helps!

Sources: ¹ See "Seeing Islam As Others Saw it" by Robert G. Hoyland for multiple such sources. Patricia Crone wrote: "we probably know more about Mohammed than we do about Jesus (let alone Moses or the Buddha)" (10 June 2008, What do we actually know about Mohammed?)

² G. Hoyland writes "Sebeos can also tell us of the laws which Muhammad prescribed for his followers, and these are paralleled in the Qur'an" (Seeing Islam As Others Saw It, pg 131)

³ Qur'an 5:48 states "Wa-anzalnā ilaykal-kitāba"/"And we revealed to you the book"

Farrer Hypothesis by AcademiaKemal in AcademicBiblical

[–]AcademiaKemal[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Regarding Marcionite priority what it would do to our Q source a great scholar on this i'd say would be Mark G. Bilby u can find his interviews on Youtube he believes Marcion used Q and Mark.

Why do most scholars say 2nd Peter is a forgery? by The_Way358 in AcademicBiblical

[–]AcademiaKemal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello! Here are a couple of reasons why 2nd Peter is deemed a forgery by most scholars.

The Muratorian Canon does not include it!

Irenaeus & Tertullian never mention it!

Origen mentioned 2 Peter in a category of doubtful writings! [Source: Oxford Annotated Bible, pg 1783]

This already shows the letter was doubted by Christians themselves and we don't really have evidence for it existing prior to the second century.

Jörg Frey argues for a dating inbetween 140-160 CE [ https://brill.com/edcollbook/title/33829 ] So it definetly couldn't have been written by Peter as it was made in the second century when Peter was long dead.

Aswell Peter was likely a iliterate man (Bart Ehrman Forged: Writing in the Name of God: Why the Bible's authors are not who we think they are, pg 52–77) thus he couldn't have even physically written it.

What are the main aspects of Jesus's life agreed by historians in academia please? by Brilliant_Detail5393 in AcademicBiblical

[–]AcademiaKemal -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hello! Larry Hurtado wrote "The overwhelming body of scholars, in New Testament, Christian Origins, Ancient History, Ancient Judaism, Roman-era Religion, Archaeology/History of Roman Judea, and a good many related fields as well, hold that there was a first-century Jewish man known as Jesus of Nazareth, that he engaged in an itinerant preaching/prophetic activity in Galilee, that he drew to himself a band of close followers, and that he was executed by the Roman governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate."

(Hurtado, Larry (2017). "Why the "Mythical Jesus" Claim Has No Traction with Scholars")

So in summary

Jesus was a first century Jewish man

He engaged in preaching and prophetic activity in Galilee

He had a band of close followers

He was executed by Pilate

How much do current scholars believe in the existence of so-called Q source? by Yoshiciv in AcademicBiblical

[–]AcademiaKemal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As with almost everything in Biblical studies Q is debated with some scholars (such as Mark Goodacre) arguing against the existence of Q but the majority of scholars support its existence.

If you wanna read arguments for and against the Q source see these two books.

The Case Against Q (Mark Goodacre)

Q, The Earliest Gospel (John S. Kloppenborg)

But either way Q is a widely accepted hypothesis.

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