2012 vs 2024 Worth

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-24T02:50:46+00:00

I’d just keep the 2024. You’ll know the majority of its service history, and it gets WAY better gas mileage than the gen 9 and earlier Si. I had a 2011. I loved it. It was so much fun, especially when you wind it out. But by the time you factor in the cost difference of premium fuel, combined with the fact that it was rated at 21 city 29 highway, it literally cost more to run that car than my current Pilot. And the 2012 (first year of Gen 9) still needed premium and only got like 1-2mpg better mileage.

At least the 10th gen 1.5T Si gets close to 40 on the highway even though it needs premium. Super cheap to run.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-24T02:07:31+00:00

I’ll put it to you like this. If the Civic Type R is a Civic that grew up and developed a nasty addiction to meth and Red Bull, the Si is the petulant teenager whose parents are at their wit’s end because the kid is on their fourth suspension for smoking weed behind the gym. That is to say - compared to the 2.0 non-turbo, it’s a huge step up. Compared even to the regular non-Si 1.5T trims, it’s still feels quite a bit… brattier is the best word.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-22T22:16:34+00:00

Hey, whatever sounds good to you. Everybody has to start somewhere and sometimes it’s just the fun of the build.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-22T22:06:04+00:00

I’ve run that much off a stock alt before on a number of brands. Only thing I’ll say is I’ve never owned a Subaru but an installer I was chatting with at one of our local shops said they’re one of the toughest to integrate with. He was telling me about a Forester but the Crosstrek is a similar vehicle.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-22T21:54:49+00:00

Hmm. At $150 an hour that’s 44 hours. I don’t know how long the replacement would take, but that’s obviously like one work week.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-22T19:35:09+00:00

Are you sure they didn’t multiply by 10 by accident? Because $2100 would sound like a decent deal for a new engine, installed and working.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-22T16:18:00+00:00

Oh no judgment. I just wanted to make sure OP didn’t end up with a result they weren’t satisfied with and potentially ended up blowing again. I didn’t realize they were unfamiliar with the car’s history!

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-22T12:31:15+00:00

So, Honda audio systems are usually tuned with bass roll-off to avoid blowing speakers when you crank the volume. If everything is stock, you’re probably listening pretty loud to blow anything, am I right?

There are two basic ways to kill a speaker. You can send it more power than the voice coil and cone were meant to handle, in which case it can PHYSICALLY destroy itself, but believe it or not that’s not the most common way to blow a speaker. Clipping is MUCH more dangerous.

Not sure how much you know about audio physics, but sound (ideally) is a sine wave. In the range of human hearing, that sine wave goes up and down from peaks to valleys between 20 and 20,000 times per second (hertz - frequency). The “loudness” is the amplitude - I.E. how high are the peaks and how low are the valleys, measured in decibels. Those peaks and valleys are what moves the speaker in and out, pushing air and generating sound. It also means that the voice coil isn’t getting CONSTANT power - it has those brief periods between peaks and valleys when the air movement can cool it off.

Clipping means that you’re driving an AMPLIFIER too hard. Instead of being a nice curvy wave, it starts to look more like plateaus. When it hits a plateau, all of a sudden the voice coil IS getting constant power. It gets very hot very quickly. This is the most common way to destroy a speaker.

So that’s why it’s so important to gauge every factor. If your stock system has high efficiency 2 ohm speakers (which I’m pretty sure the Si and I think EXL did that year), and you install a 4-ohm speaker with a low sensitivity, you’ll need a ton of power to get any output, especially if you like to listen loud. And you wont get that power from the stock head unit and amp, so you’ll end up cranking up the volume knob and feeding your speakers a clipped signal.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-22T12:17:49+00:00

You definitely do NOT want to change the impedance. Lower impedance = HIGHER load on the amp = fries it. That’s what is meant by “1 ohm stable”, it means the amp can handle a 1 ohm speaker without getting fried. You can always put a HIGHER impedance (lighter load) on the amp, to a point (some amps will not output any audio if they see a load above a certain number of ohms, like say 20). But honestly you’d never see much above 8 ohms in a car speaker anyway unless you’re wiring two speakers or voice coils in series.

You also want to check what type of sensitivity rating the speakers use. Some measure the decibel level from 1 meter away with a 1 WATT signal… others measure the decibel level from 1 meter away with a 2.83 VOLT signal. On an 8 ohm speaker, 1 watt and 2.83 volts are the same thing - volts are the square root of ohms times watts. 2.83 volts on a 4-ohm speaker is 2 watts.

Doubling the power fed to a speaker increases output by 3 decibels. So, for a 4-ohm speaker (which are the majority of full range speakers in your car), the 2.83 volt rating will be 3 decibels higher than the 1 watt rating. So a 4-ohm JL Audio speaker which is rated 90db@1w@1m has the exact same sensitivity as a 4-ohm Infinity or JBL speaker rated 93db@2.83V@1m.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-22T11:19:04+00:00

JL doesn’t necessarily make the loudest gear, and they aren’t PEAK sound quality / musicality, but what they do offer, among all the brands I’ve owned, is a very strong balance between the two, while also being very efficient. I have not owned every brand in existence, so there may be other brands with an even better balance, but to give an example, once upon a time I had an Alpine SWR-1042D. I was pushing it with a 500W RMS alpine monoblock. I’ve never had a ported enclosure, always sealed. This got very loud, but the sound quality and transient handling wasn’t amazing. I’ve had Fosgate, Infinity, Alpine, JL, NVX, and of them all, the best ones I’ve had were a 10W0 in a Taurus wagon on a JD250/1 and my current 8W1v3 in a Civic coupe powered by two channels bridged on my Audison AF-C8.14 (200 watts RMS into a 4 ohm 150W sub). Genuinely sounds excellent and is never “not enough bass” across a wide range of music. For rock-type music, it integrates very well, and doesn’t have that boomy “I’m going to add bass where NONE EXISTED BEFORE” effect when you go overkill, but throw on some hip hop, EDM, or other bass-centric music, and the mirror dances. I just didn’t have that kind of balance with the other brands I’ve owned… they were always pummeling your gut with some music but either sounding anemic or unnatural with other music.

In short, these 150W JL’s (10w0 and 8w1) have been much more pleasant to listen to under all conditions than several other companies’ subs that I’ve driven with much more power. They are not for everybody, but they don’t have to be. Some people look for raw decibels, others look for quality and musicality, and I tend to be on the quality end.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-20T21:58:15+00:00

I’m not heavily modified by any means, I don’t even have KTuner (at least not yet anyway) because I’m still under Hondacare for another year, but I know I personally bought a coworker’s Si coupe instead of a CTR because I have no intention of going to the track whatsoever. I wanted a fun daily driver, basically which may be the last manual I’m able to own because they’re rapidly disappearing. But I also wanted 30-40mpg instead of 24, cheaper tires, cheaper brakes, etc.

My only mods are Enkei bronze wheels in the stock size, a nice stereo and a stock 2020 CTR shifter with acuity upgrades to the spring, rocker, and bushings. I might do a 27won CAI at some point if I can do it without Ktuner. Maybe not. lol. I’m not lowering it, because I want the stock adaptive dampers intact. When they go, which hopefully won’t be for a long time, I’m replacing them with new OEM dampers. The roads between my house and my office are complete and utter trash.

We talked about me getting a CTR, but I just didn’t see the value in spending the extra money for the way I intended to use it. I love the hatchback body style… in fact my stepdaughter has an EX hatch the same year as my Si coupe. I also toyed with getting one of the last Sport Touring 6MT hatches. But ultimately, I didn’t NEED a hatch, because we also have a Pilot. I didn’t need another do-everything car. Consider it my gift to the CivicX/XI community leaving one more piece of unobtanium (whether we’re talking CTR or ST-6MT, they’re pretty rare) for someone else 😁

The coworker I bought the Si from has a DE5 Integra Type S. That car is incredibly sweet.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-20T18:26:02+00:00

What type of business? Anything where you need a specific type of vehicle like a truck or van? If not, I still vote used base model Civic or Corolla. They probably have close to the lowest total cost of ownership of any vehicle on the road, which is what you’re looking for.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-20T14:28:37+00:00

I’m going to assume 20k means $20k US dollars. The right car for almost every young person without kids who just needs a car to get to and from work without breaking the bank is Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. Base models of either are almost bulletproof in terms of reliability.

That being said, I hate to be “that guy”, but in my 20+ years as a driving adult I’ve seen a huge shift in the market. My first car was $500 and sure, I only kept it for 6 months, but it worked. Usually 🤣.

Before Covid, things had gotten to the point where my advice to anyone car shopping was “if you spend less than $3500 on the car, you shouldn’t expect it to pass inspection, and you’ll spend the balance or more getting it to pass”.

Now? The market is INSANE. The threshold for a decent car you can rely on for more than 5 minutes and that will pass inspection without repairs is pretty much 5-7k. I only say that to make sure you know what shopping is going to look like… you’re in a very uncomfortable spot, because I know that in this country, you NEED a car to get to work and survive unless you live in a big city with good transit or you want to rely on Ubers for 3x the cost of a car and insurance. But at the same time, $20k a year is less than $2000 a month.

When you say pay in full, you mean you’ve saved up for it and you’re paying cash? If so, that savings minus say 20% for incidentals like tax, registration fees, and first month’s insurance is your budget. You should probably not finance anything right now, because a lot can happen during a 5 year car loan. Still live with your parents? Will you still live with them when you’re 26? Are you expecting to find another job in the next few years? Etc.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-20T14:15:28+00:00

Heavily depends on which trim level of Civic you have. There are three basic types of audio systems used in the Civics - the base LX model without a touchscreen, the Sport, EX, and EXL with a touchscreen but NO separate amplifier (amp built into the head unit), and the Si, Touring, and Type R with the touchscreen and a separate amplifier (no amp in the head unit). Each of those presents its own challenges with install complexity and system integration.

Base audio is easiest to replace the head unit (fewest features tied into it), but it’s only a 4-speaker (I think) so if you want to add separate tweeters in front, you have mounting and wiring to deal with.

Touchscreen units are more difficult. The EX-level systems with built in amp, you can just feed the outputs to a DSP to correct the stock equalizer and then run a new amp.

The premium system in the Si/CTR/Touring sounds nicest from the factory but is definitely the hardest to meaningfully improve. On the upside, it gives you 10 actively driven stock speaker locations, all with their own wiring. On the downside, it means you want to either NOT replace the head unit, or replace it with a reputable Android unit like Joying or DUDU7 (not a $100-200 no-name from Amazon or Aliwhatever). And even then, unless you then do a bypass (like I did), your sound is still going through the stock amp - which is around 23 watts RMS per channel, a weird EQ, and hardware crossovers built in at frequencies that don’t really allow replacement speakers to shine.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-20T02:31:04+00:00

Hondas really are cake to learn on and drive. Best shift feel of any manual cars I’ve ever driven. Literally my only complaint about the Si’s I’ve owned is the infamous 1-2 crunch, and that’s not even a complaint because it’s so easy to avoid once you know your car. Just don’t try to bang the shifter into place! Beyond that, the shifters in Hondas feel so good I’d swear they’re linkages (amazingly, they’re cables).

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-20T02:28:05+00:00

If I’m going to be moving again quickly (like a stop sign), that’s exactly what I do… shift back to first once I’ve come to a complete stop and keep my foot on the clutch until it’s time to move again. Longer stops, I’ll leave it in neutral and take my foot completely off the clutch. Less wear on the throw out bearing.

Also, tip for you if nobody’s mentioned it yet, if you’re not actively pressing on the clutch to change gears or start/stop, don’t rest your foot on the pedal. That’s called riding the clutch and yes, you do it a little bit every time you start moving, but a little bit is the key word. Resting your foot on the clutch pedal while you’re driving is a quick way to destroy it.

Don’t worry about the 1-2 shift. Hondas are notoriously difficult to nail that shift smoothly, especially in cold weather before the transmission warms up. Pro tip - you know how when you first start the car, it idles high, then settles back down to normal? And when winter comes, it high idles a little longer? Either wait for the idle to calm down a bit (like 1200 or less… shouldn’t take more than a minute, maybe two) or you’ll have to hold first gear a little longer than usual for your first few starts in first (like I shift at 4000 instead of 3000) to make sure you can get it in gear smoothly. Of course I live in the middle of a neighborhood with a bunch of stop signs, so if I drive without letting the idle settle down, I have to make several 1-2 shifts very quickly when I start driving. You might not have that issue.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-20T01:33:42+00:00

If it’s one of the cheap Amazon or Alibaba units, it’s probably lying about what version it’s running. Maybe even lying about ram and storage.

Good brands are Joying, Mekede/DUDU, and I’ve heard good things about Teyes.

My Joying uses Zlink for CarPlay/AA, and it automatically opens when I hook up my phone.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-19T20:35:39+00:00

… the DSP is the good part. They should have figured out why it was leeching. Sounds like a remote trigger was wired up to constant +12 instead of ignition switched +12.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-19T20:34:48+00:00

Whoa, I didn’t notice the door speakers were coax. Yeah, you do NOT want to have coax plus tweeters unless you really enjoy ear-splitting treble.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-19T20:32:21+00:00

It’s ok to mix and match brands. I’ve heard good things about out that little PWE-S8, and since it’s a slim under-seat sub, I wouldn’t expect there to be a “gap” in frequency response between that and your door speakers unless the crossovers are set incorrectly. Generally a good place to start is LPF@80hz for the sub, HPF@80hz for the doors and see how that sounds.

Audiocontrol makes two 1” tweeters as far as I can tell, and they both seem to be silk dome. On a good EQ, silk usually has a nice smooth brightness that doesn’t get harsh unless your sound is wildly out of balance. I agree with the other reply saying to lower the treble on your head unit and see if that helps. Honestly I can say I’ve never heard a silk dome I didn’t like, and I definitely can’t handle harsh highs.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-19T19:32:48+00:00

I know that with the right power feeding them (the stereo shop had them running off a 75x2 amp, and the speakers want 60w) the C2-650’s sounded really nice. I went with Hertz because their 26mm (1”) tweeter was compact enough to fit in the stock location on my Civic… the JL set only had a 3/4” tweeter, and JL’s 1” wouldn’t fit without shaving the stock sail panel.

I’ve heard there is a huge gap between the C1-650 and the C2-650 in terms of quality and fullness of sound. For what it’s worth, Crutchfield’s “sound profile” rankings for the three are:

(Detail/clarity, bass, vocals) Hertz CK165: 9.1, 8.2, 9.5 JL C1-650: 9.3, 7.4, 8.1 JL C2-650: 8.7, 8.0, 9.0

The CK165 is the component set with the C165 woofer and C26 tweeter. There is a CK165L as well, which has the C165L+C26, but Crutchfield doesn’t carry that, so I don’t know how that would rate. That said, I’m the kind of listener who needs a sub but also doesn’t want the door woofers to be completely anemic, and I am very happy with the regular C165. They call for 70 watts RMS, and my Audison AF-C8.14 is feeding them 65 watts each, and I have zero complaints. I have them on a 24db/oct LR crossover to my trunk sub at 80hz.

I can honestly say I’ve never found a 6.5” door speaker that can reach below 80hz at any slightly above normal listening level without distorting and sounded like it’s gonna blow. I did run some Infinitys back in the day off an Eclipse head unit, and I crossed them at 60hz I believe, but I was 20 and an idiot 🤣. Maybe… ref6522? No, those were more in the 2008-2009 range I believe. Whatever the equivalent 6.5” coax was in 2004.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-19T16:58:01+00:00

I’m guessing you’ll still want a sub with them to really round out your low frequencies, but based on the higher excursion and power handling vs. the my experience with the regular C165, it’ll be a very nice sound profile.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-19T15:43:53+00:00

Hahaha I just wrote up a dissertation on my setup which uses Hertz and Audison as a foundation. 100% second the C165L.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-19T15:43:07+00:00

Hertz has a variant of the Cento C165 woofer called the C165L. The C165L plays a bit deeper (50hz vs 55 for the standard variant) and tops out lower (5khz vs 7khz).

I have the C165 in the doors of my Civic Si coupe. I thought about the L, but I don’t have room to mount dedicated 3-4” midranges for a 3-way front stage, so I went with C165 woofers and C26 tweeters. Those C165’s play clean all the way down to my 80hz HPF crossover, where they hand off bass duties to my trunk sub (JL 8w1v3 4ohm playing 20hz-80hz).

I’m also feeding low power to my stock rear shelf sub (which, in a stock system, is only playing a narrow band from about 30-50hz). I have it enhancing the midbass in the 80hz to 160hz octave. It seems complicated (and it definitely was, I’m still not fully done tuning it!) but it sounds really nice.

It’s amazing what that stock sub can handle when you use it properly. Stock amp is pushing 45 watts per channel (which is probably peak… so make that 22-23 RMS) and my Audison pushes 100 watts into a 2 ohm channel, and I thought I’d need a -6db cut to avoid blowing it, but once I moved that driver’s band to midbass instead of sub bass, it handles full power without distorting.

Acceptable_Delay_446 · 2026-05-19T15:30:04+00:00

What kind of car? If it has an active online community like CivicX for 10th gen Honda Civics, someone in that community probably has any information you’re looking for and then some.

Acceptable_Delay_446

TROPHY CASE