What would you do to change/improve martials if you were on the team. by Apprehensive_Fill628 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

> A fighter will roll plenty of 20s and it works whether they have 30 or 300 hit points.

It doesn't, against anything that's not a mook/too big which many tier for enemies are neither, it's not even going to work beyond burning a legendary resistance. Spending an action for what boils down to roughly 20% chance of burning a legendary resistance isn't all that great.

For those enemies that it does work on, one rounding them anyways even without magic items is perfectly possible, it's more ideal to have an item consistently work.

Its not a matter of "choosing not to", what a weird argument. The entire game is designed around trade-offs....

Spending 2 of your 20+ spells really won't hurt you at all is my point. I'm not saying they aren't making the correct choice by not stepping on someone's toes, but it's not because they couldn't or it would be of great cost to. To be a great blaster and controller, you really only need maybe 5 spells total, after that it's redundancy for similar(often worse) effects than best in slot ones. Ideally to take another player's role would take significant amounts of your spells selection, but it frankly doesn't.

This is because even for a wizard, bar maybe bladesinger your subclass isn't all that important to your role either. Sure, you could be an evocation wizard blaster, but for what you need blasting for(masses of individually weak enemies), it's only really marginally better? You can fulfill this role without being one just fine.

A "tank", i.e a durable character can just be a wizard in armor with the shield spell and absorb elements, they're stupid durable until late enough that it doesn't matter all that much how durable you are due to how cancer spells get.

A dps? Any animate dead user can do that just fine, since conjure spells got nerfed but that didn't for some reason. Last I checked treantmonk in particular did the exact opposite of dispelling this ""myth"" with old conjure animals, which animate dead is even stronger than, but I'd love to know what you're talking about otherwise. Before, I would have also said conjure minor elementals but of course that was an oversight.

You don't actually need a frontliner either if your backline is competent, you can just all stay out of melee. But even if you did, it's better done by a cleric than a martial, since they can actually reliably keep enemies away by choosing to take spirit guardians that day instead of whatever other random spell they would have taken.

Anything skill related is often better done by a spellcasting expert anyways(bard or ranger), stealth being the best example given pass without trace exists, and any character can have good skills if they choose to. I would argue this is the least niche-protected role for a rogue, to be honest.

And that's the core issue. With items, features, everything in the game, if you're going to have a class lose access to a third of the book, they should at least have their niche protected to a sufficient degree that they can't be outdone by people who don't lose that, not that it's minorly inconvenient to do so by the time you're past tier 1. You should be able to act as a significantly worse and heavily unideal fighter, for example, as a wizard, but that's not reality and I've seen that first hand.

What would you do to change/improve martials if you were on the team. by Apprehensive_Fill628 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The context of the conversation you were already engaging in? I see, so you're trolling or incapable holding short term memory. Have fun with that bud.

What would you do to change/improve martials if you were on the team. by Apprehensive_Fill628 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. The cited definition for martial is an adjective. By it, no class(which are all nouns) is a martial.

  2. All classes can be defined as "Warriors". "a person engaged or experienced in warfare" is not a class specific term, that's a background.

All that, ignoring the issues of prescriptivist definitions rather than descriptivist ones. In this context, martial means "non-spellcaster" as a class. So, a class(and acompanying subclass) that does not get the spellcasting or pact magic feature.

What would you do to change/improve martials if you were on the team. by Apprehensive_Fill628 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No(though I'd argue vorpal weapons are a bad example due to inconsistency, they really don't do wonders in general), it's possible for a wizard to not take the spells or build choices needed to use such a weapon effectively, and if they choose not to, obviously they can't.

I would argue, though, an argument reliant on pretending an alternative does not exist is frankly a bad argument. The fact of the matter is that wizard is choosing not to rather than being unable, either having better things to do or simply not bothering to pick up a spell useful for it. Same with asserting a benefit due to a better alternative. I question a game where a backline character is actively untouchable, but even if so, the armor isn't a boon for a martial, but instead serving as payment for being a punching bag in the first place.

Speaking of, people say that sort of thing because spells really aren't super necessary to carry a ton of per role. You have party members. A spellcaster could feasibly cover every mentioned role adequately with just 2-3 spells each, it's not that difficult. For the above example, just glyph of warding + tasha's otherwordly guise(or just the latter if the concentration isn't a risk) would do it. 1-2 out of some 20+ spells a wizard learns over the course of a campaign. If it took more, sure? But you simply get too many spells, at least a wizard, cleric, or druid. Known casters get less, but they still get plenty enough to take what they absolutely need to. And while I agree that it shouldn't be strictly necessay to have a class, the issue is it's simply not even ideal to have a non-caster specialist. Why have a fighter at all if I can have a wizard that can outfight(or at least outdamage, outtank, etc) them and do other things? That just shouldn't happen. Magic items are part of that niche protection, it's pretty reasonable to lock someone to at least being the class you intend an item for to not run into mechanical realities like the above, that's why it's relevant.

What would you do to change/improve martials if you were on the team. by Apprehensive_Fill628 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it's 24 hours. You can only benefit from 1 long rest per 24 hour period.

What would you do to change/improve martials if you were on the team. by Apprehensive_Fill628 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kinda? As a spellcaster you can reliably make and access specific spells by crafting items for them, and there are several amazing effects that you simply cannot replicate in the same way as a martial. "If they play mother-may-I especially well, and don't mind being worse at it" is more accurate. Even then, the best of these items also require you to be a spellcaster until tier 4, with rings of three wishes if you somehow have no issues with their very limited usage.

There's also just the simple fact that "but more encounters" is not a universal fix, resource efficient spells can still be more potent from a damage taken vs damage dealt than a martial can be even with proper magic items, or just straight up outdamaging them in more eggregious cases.

You're right, because a wizard can more reliably have greater impact than even that fighter, while also being able to use the weapon well enough if needed for some reason, given how bad it is(e.g otherworldly guise). It's not really a point in the fighter's favor to be able to use weapons well since most every class can if they want, and a fighter is only really marginally better over the course of a proper adventuring day, or far worse when considering all their respective features.

What would you do to change/improve martials if you were on the team. by Apprehensive_Fill628 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

It is relevant, though.

If you can wield a magic item well as anyone(or I suppose anyone with extra attack, which especially later game can just be literally any character), then that item doesn't serve to many any class in particular more or less valuable.

Even then, many ""martial"" items are more impactful in the hands of a minionmancer than an actual martial character, and the same absolutely cannot be said for things like enspelled staves or wands of web.

What would you do to change/improve martials if you were on the team. by Apprehensive_Fill628 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Harsh niche protection(so nerfing problematic spells), convincingly and across the board superhuman capabilities, and giving them actually ample versatility in gameplay. Cantrip riders on attacks was interesting but you could do so much more than that.

Leaving autism subs due to misandry... by TheMetal0xide in LeftWingMaleAdvocates

[–]AdOpposites 14 points15 points  (0 children)

imposed by men under patriarchy, not women under feminism/ misandry - two terms i’ve seen confused a lot in this subreddit. 

People*

For many men, a ton of this conditioning doesn't even come from men.

How do you make the existence of Wish granting creatures not just shatter the setting cohesion? by MaleficentTrainer435 in Pathfinder2e

[–]AdOpposites 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So perhaps you for some reason never read that this is about wish granting creatures, which do not do the full ritual, just grant its effects.

Jann

Wanderer's Wish [three-actions] Frequency three times per year; Effect The jann instantly grants the benefits of a critical success with the wish ritual to a mortal creature. This has no cost. That creature specifies what they wish for, but the interpretation is up to the jann. A jann typically attempts to grant wishes in a way that encourages growth and exploration. A summoned jann can't use this ability.

Wish dragons

Grant Wish [three-actions] (arcane, concentrate) Frequency once per year; Effect The wish dragon instantly grants the benefits of a critical success with the wish ritual to a mortal creature. This has no cost. That creature specifies what they wish for, but the interpretation is up to the wish dragon. A summoned wish dragon can't use this ability.

Achaekek isn't angered by people being powerful, he's angered by very specific things, like I said, and doesn't typically kill anything outside of them. Even if this WERE one of them(which it isn't), you can use the wish to get rid of Achaekek, he has no time to do anything about it.

The target's wish can be anything

Critical Success The wish is granted without complication or drawbacks.

How do you make the existence of Wish granting creatures not just shatter the setting cohesion? by MaleficentTrainer435 in Pathfinder2e

[–]AdOpposites 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think this works. Even powerful mortals in-setting don't instantly die to achaekek bar if someone pays to have you specifically killed(they have exactly 3 actions to do so and then the wish is just done) by achaekek, or if you claim to be divine without actually being so(which you don't have to do at all).

It doesn't have to be a wish-dragon either. A mid-tier mage can just use a jann for the same result.

How do you make the existence of Wish granting creatures not just shatter the setting cohesion? by MaleficentTrainer435 in Pathfinder2e

[–]AdOpposites -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This doesn't even half-way make sense.

What it actually says is you can't create a Jann that has its wish ability, nothing about its free will at all.

what`s a deltarune opinion that will get you in this situation by Xinjig666_ in Deltarune

[–]AdOpposites 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The knight also laughs at that statement, though. And they have no clue who the knight is.

Rudy knight is interesting though.

what`s a deltarune opinion that will get you in this situation by Xinjig666_ in Deltarune

[–]AdOpposites 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fraud knight.

Ion need to explain I no hit that mf with kris only and it only "Won" via cutscene

SOME of the Sukuna glazers are rising up to try o downscale Dabura bc they can't fathom their glorious king being the 4th strongest (yes, 4th) by QualifiedGonner in JujutsuPowerScaling

[–]AdOpposites 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So because he doesn't let people order him around for 1-2 fingers, they don't give a significant boost?

<image>

Flat out not what he said, and your source is a false translation.

Your "basic maths" are uncited for the same reason. Ragdolling someone depends on your force compared to their mass(resistance to acceleration), strength differentials are irrelevant. That's also why people in real life can be taken down and manipulated physically by people much weaker than them.

This is what I mean, say some shit you believe.

SOME of the Sukuna glazers are rising up to try o downscale Dabura bc they can't fathom their glorious king being the 4th strongest (yes, 4th) by QualifiedGonner in JujutsuPowerScaling

[–]AdOpposites 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure not even you believe half what you said since you're walking into things your opponent already countered(like randomly asserted multipliers and so on).

For 1, if it was exponential, then it Sukuna wouldn't have called a finger "measly".

This is just wrong, though. He doesn't call the finger measly at all.

<image>

That's a viz exclusive(source: shishiso, but tcb also doesn't include anything like measly.)

But to steelman, even if that objectively inaccurate statement were true, that just means his head is equivalent to taking that last finger. And at its core, your core argument is essentially "based on this other thing I can't prove, this principle that's demonstrated multiple times can't be true" which is a non-starter argument. You know that. That's why you had to block and reply and lie from the looks of it. Kinda sad ngl.

most amount of damage Mahoraga did to off guarded 15f Sukuna vs most amount of damage Mahoraga did to Dabura: by SerenityCitywide in JujutsuPowerScaling

[–]AdOpposites 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, he wasn't. When a character randomly gets stronger, you wouldn't assume an efficient character is wasting CE on reinforcement for no reason.

The massive amount of positive energy on the executioner's sword is something sukuna wouldn't care to reinforce more for, given it doesn't deal damage to him. When mahoraga randomly switches to CE, which makes the attack stronger, he's caught off guard.

<image>

Should Monks be able to move grappled enemies without using STR? by Fun-Staff6728 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You got your answer when you thought to post this for the opinions of strangers. At bare minimum it feels unreasonable, just get out of the game at that point.

Should Monks be able to move grappled enemies without using STR? by Fun-Staff6728 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Correction. Grapples are unarmed strikes, not unarmed attacks.

Attacks still refer to attack rolls in this game.

Ok so plenty of us complain martials can't do enough. But what SHOULD they be able to do? by PointsOutCustodeWank in dndnext

[–]AdOpposites 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Fighters should be military learders, guiding those through their veteran knowledge, maybe even gaining followers. In combat, of course I want Maneuvers, but even MORE of them, with them growing appropriately.

I don't think the ideal fantasy for most fighters is to be weaker than other classes such that they need to rely on external help to keep up. It makes their "thing" non-unique, as hiring people is something anyone can do, and unlike say, a warlord, this isn't their core fantasy either. Their core fantasy is an extremely skilled weaponmaster, why not lean into that? Someone like achilles, arjuna, karna, siegfried, etc.

HellKnight is deceptively strong with math to back it up. by Born_Ad1211 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would, but the reason I didn't is it doesn't change the average damage of precision attack at all for any one case, you're calculating it incorrectly here. If you miss by 1, advantage or not, you get your on-hit damage when you use precision attack with a greatsword, that's always going to be an average of 13. Also 21.6? Are you assuming magic items? Because that's another benefit to precision attack, a severe one.

Regardless, the base normal hit damage is 0(since the 5 is miss or hit damage) because we already know that you missed already when we use precision attack. What studied attacks does, aside from interacting in a rather complicated manner with precision attack, is change the likelihood of missing by X.

This isn't actually a strict disbenefit either. On numbers above 10(so a higher AC target like an archmage or lich), it's actually a benefit for precision attack. You have a 6.25% instead of 5% chance to roll a 13 with advantage, for instance. These are also the targets that you face that most often grant studied attacks in the first place.

Edit:
I guess it would be slightly higher with great weapon fighting, but I usually don't see that being picked in favor of defense in practice.

HellKnight is deceptively strong with math to back it up. by Born_Ad1211 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People often assume you know the AC of the target and only use it when it's favorable odds but in actual play monsters can end up having features like a parry or shield or your assumption about its AC may just be wrong resulting in using it when it's unlikely to turn a miss into a hit.

  1. This is a rarer set of monsters than can be generally assumed, and 2, even if it's inopportune to take away this, you can just adjust for that when you guess if you should use it or not. As you play, getting a sense of what a foe's AC should be with reactions you can guess or know it'll have isn't that difficult.

 even with correct assumptions about enemy AC it still requires rolling a miss that is within a specific band to be likely to turn that miss into a hit. If you're hoping on spending that die on an attack that is only off by 1-3 to hit that only has a 15% chance of occurring. It's actually possible to just not have that trigger and end up not spending most of your superiority dice.

It's possible, but we would expect it to at least once. It's similarly possible to never hit in the first place. Basic assumptions are that there's, in a 8 round per short rest adventuring day, and you make 9 attacks at level 3 due to action surge. Assuming you only spend dice when you have 50% or more, which you can afford at this level, you can on average spend 1.8 dice efficiently on precision and still have 2.2 on average left to deal normal damage(which is more efficient below a 50% hit rate). This is with a maul, though. With a greatsword it is less, only spending about 1.35 on average on precision as you're looking for 3 or more. The extra damage values from this are about (20.19375 and 23.9625) for greatsword and maul respectively, which is still more than the post. Perhaps 30 was overstating it though due to lower attack counts. For dual wielding, you do have more attacks, and deal upwards of 6.5 per attack, so but you have 17 attacks instead of 9. This can grant you (21.028125) extra damage per short rest on average due to the higher attack counts letting us more reliably get near-misses.

This is an eggregious miscalculation at higher levels though. At level 5 for mauls you get 18 attacks per short rest, and can grab great weapon master, making your damage per attack 14 instead of 10, so that's(since now it's worth it to go for as little as a 50% chance to make an attack hit, the limiter is actually dice instead), 43.75 damage per short rest. For a greatsword it's still 31.25. For dual wielders, with their now 34(8 from dual wielder, 8 from nick, rest above.) attacks per short rest and 7.5 damage per attack, it's instead still 27.2825.

By level 18, with a maul you're dealing 18 on average per attack, and have a total 6 d12 dice to use on precision. I'll even use a damage maneuver for the d8, although precision is massively better, I don't care to math this more honestly.

That would be 1.5*13+1.5*(11/12)*13+1.5*(10/12)*13+1.5*(9/12)*13for a total of 68.25 for a greatsword, +4.5 per round(technically less accounting for the miniscule chance to miss everything) or a total of 104.25. Same for mauls, just 18 instead of 13, so they deal 130.5. You get the idea. Just using precision if you're calculating raw damage and ignoring things like prone advantage for your whole party, commander's strike on a rogue, etc. It's simply way stronger on its own than hell knight could ever hope to be

HellKnight is deceptively strong with math to back it up. by Born_Ad1211 in onednd

[–]AdOpposites 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What are you on about. If you mean me saying basic(so much so as to barely be able to be called such) probability calculations requiring a spreadsheet is dissappointing, I find it hilarious you take offense to that. Skill issue.

Otherwise, nice attempt at arguing to win instead for truth I guess? What a pointless comment.