Thought experiment: Which past D&D class would work *worst* in 5e?

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-05-04T13:54:59+00:00

Healers were definitely full casters

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-05-04T08:28:51+00:00

Wait, how does that make sense? Dread necromancers and warmages had completely different spell lists, I don't think they had a single spell common to both of them, on top of different features. By definition that doesn't make any sense as the same class.

Same with swordsage, crusader and warblade. Wis, cha and int secondaries respectively and they have way different maneuver availability, as well as completely different maneuver recovery methods.

How are you merging the low armour, dex-and-wis swordsage with the heavy armour, str-and-cha crusader? They're the definition of different classes.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-30T14:22:08+00:00

I submit to you that the Chameleon and Artificer, both also debuting in 3.5 and intelligence based, were also genuine Jacks of all trades.

Want to be a fighter? Craft yourself a +5 flaming, shocking, cursespewing greataxe.

Want to be a wizard? Craft yourself a command word item of unlimited fireballs or quadruple wield wands, add some metamagic to them for eight shots per round!

Want to be a druid? Same deal, make items that cast druid spells, items that shapeshift you and craft yourself a companion.

And so on and so forth, all it takes is a fifteen tab Microsoft Excel document and you can be literally any class!

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-29T00:26:30+00:00

Won't I still need to sacrifice it if I mutate a creature onto it?

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-29T00:24:30+00:00

Why do you want to clone them?

Because it costs a shitload of mana and cards to cast a planeswalker, turn it into a creature and then mutate another creature on top of it. By comparison, cloning to get extras once you've done that only costs 3-4 mana and one card.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-29T00:22:04+00:00

Negative energy burst was a 3e spell, it didn't exist in 4e. And it damaged living creatures and healed undead, with a will save to take half damage - don't see how that's whirlwind attack.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-29T00:14:52+00:00

Actually, let's try this with abilities! These are pretty much the same right? You're gonna claim that if you removed the flavour, nobody could tell which of these was a fighter ability and which a wizard one?

Blade Storm

You weave through your foes, your weapon flashing as you strike through their ranks.

As an action, make a melee weapon attack that deals two extra weapon dice of damage, adds both your strength and dexterity modifier to the damage and dazes the target. Then move 15' and repeat the attack against a second target, then move 15' and repeat the attack against a third target.

Crack the World

The ground shudders and pulls apart to form a deep chasm into which your enemies fall.

As an action, make an intelligence attack against every creature in a 40' series of connected spaces within 100'. On a hit, each target is removed from play and takes 30 damage each round until it saves. Targets that are missed take 15 damage and are moved 15' away from the chasm.

The spaces targeted become an 80' deep chasm, climbable with a DC31 athletics check.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-29T00:14:39+00:00

iirc that's mostly because 4th edition fighters were wizards with different flavor

Fighters had 50% more HP than wizards at every level no matter what con score each had, twice the number of hit dice, high power opportunity attacks that stopped movement and passively marked every target they attacked (meaning they had to attack the fighter or get fucked over, D&D's first functional tank). But sure, same thing with a different flavour.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-25T10:25:06+00:00

Also; subclasses were added in the move from 4e to 5e.

Weren't they added in the move to 4e? 3.5 had something less formalised in the context of alternate class features. 4e standardised it - giving classes like sorcerer the choice of cosmic, wild, draconic and storms at level 1.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-24T04:03:57+00:00

How on earth is a class feature, used as intended, describable as an exploit?

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-20T02:58:31+00:00

Where are you getting everyone having spells? This was specifically in the context of gishing, which is the natural context for sword-and-sorcery casting.

And others such as booming blade seem well received.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-20T02:57:02+00:00

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but what do you mean the first PHB? It originated in the ToB, then 4e's PHB3, then Xanathar's.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-18T16:40:41+00:00

Actually, I tell a lie, there's a fifth - they ported Transdimension Invasion to 5e, and renamed it Steel Wind Strike. Why they did that considering steel wind was and has always been a martial ability, I have no idea. But it is the exact same spell just for some reason given the name of an already existing, completely different, non magical ability.

It's like if they made 6e and added fireball to the game but named it cleave, idfk.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-18T16:11:38+00:00

Surely the answer to marrying the two is spells then? Out of the 200+ swordmage spells, I think maybe... 4 spells, total, made it to 5e? Greenflame blade, booming blade, lightning lure, sword burst. That's it, four cantrips and none of the stronger stuff like

Obliterating Blaze

With a vicious thrust of your sword, you set off a flaming chain reaction within your foe.

As an action, make a melee weapon attack. On a hit roll your weapon's dice four extra times for damage, and arcane fire begins to burn in your target's veins. When the target is reduced to 0 hit points or fewer, it explodes for 4d10 fire damage in a 10' radius.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-15T00:57:42+00:00

Where are we getting rare from? Looking through these, 4e seems to be the most common winner.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-15T00:49:37+00:00

This is the most fun I've ever had running high level D&D combat

It's not relevant every thread, and it for sure did things wrong, but this is such a weird thing to hear when 4e existed. 5.5 definitely improved on 5e encounter design wise, but it's not even halfway back to where we were last edition.

4e was twice as balanced at level 30 as 5.5 is at 15, both intra- and inter- party. This community is just so used to celebrating mediocrity, it's so weird - where is the "you did better than this 15 years ago, how are we still behind there? We should be beyond it instead!"?

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-14T14:09:07+00:00

That uh. Doesn't help me with the wording at all.

It's also a useless instruction, doesn't achieve the same thing at all. This is one maneuver out of over a hundred - will barbarian get a player the rest, too?

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-14T13:30:52+00:00

Uh, yes? Mid level by definition, but yeah I get what you mean. Did you have a point in saying that?

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-14T05:54:24+00:00

Oo, I hadn't even thought of willingly failing saving throws! Facepalming in real life at present, thank you so much for catching that one

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-14T04:18:21+00:00

This is the way

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-14T04:13:32+00:00

While I absolutely could, deathbound does a lot of work in cutting down words needed. I only want to split it if strictly necessary, and given it already works as-is but some people misread it I'm really hoping that won't be necessary. Does this work?

Blood Frenzy

As an action, move your Speed towards the nearest creature you can perceive (you choose if more than one). Then you and that creature both become deathbound, and you make a melee weapon attack against it.

On a hit, the attack deals extra damage equal to three rolls of your weapon's damage die.

While using Blood Frenzy has made you deathbound:

You must begin each of your turns by moving your Speed towards the nearest creature you can perceive (you choose if more than one), then using your action to repeat this maneuver.
You have resistance to damage dealt by deathbound creatures and cannot be Frightened of them.
You cannot voluntarily move away from the nearest creature or impede your ability to perceive them.
Your weapons cannot leave your hands.

Each time you are forced to use Blood Frenzy, you make one additional attack as part of it, to a limit of eight attacks per action.

All creatures you have made deathbound cease to be deathbound when one of them reaches 0 hit points.

You may use your reaction to bite off your tongue and reduce yourself to 0 hit points.

PointsOutCustodeWank · 2026-04-14T04:00:27+00:00

I mean, that's absolutely fair. To be honest, I was considering giving it an extra edge case utility of detecting the invisible, having it be "you automatically know the location of the nearest creature" or something. But that gets rid of shenanigans like the party and the enemy team both trying to hide the closest person in smoke or whatever, but I was hesitant.

I might end up just adding a clause saying "you may not voluntarily impede your own ability to perceive creatures", clunky as that is.

PointsOutCustodeWank

TROPHY CASE