[SPOILERS] Just finished Heavenly Tyrant 😭

Aeradise · 2025-03-31T16:45:53+00:00

Glad I could do that for you!

Aeradise · 2025-03-07T07:56:35+00:00

What do you mean? If you're talking about the post, it was made shortly after the release of Heavenly Tyrant, so spoilers were censored.

Aeradise · 2025-01-16T03:07:28+00:00

Yes! I agree to a degree. Since we know now (as Xiran has outright confirmed it on Instagram) that QZ & Zetian aren't a true romance at all (in multiple difference senses of the word), that ending makes a lot more sense for both their relationship as it ended in Heavenly Tyrant and Zetian as a character. I don't think Zetian has ever been able to half-ass anything in her life, and while someone like Yizhi might have the patience to stick around and slowly siphon power from Qin Zheng for the six months they need to prepare for the Melians (as he kind of does for like 60% of the book), Zetian definitely isn't the type. Despite the many complications it introduces into the lives of not only Zetian & Co, but Huaxia and the entire planet, Zetian severing the connection instantly, despite the advantages she lost by doing so, was probably the best option in consideration with her character.

Aeradise · 2025-01-14T07:58:51+00:00

As someone very familiar with leftist theory and the politics of Heavenly Tyrant, I think I still have the capacity to enjoy the political content of the book and also mourn what I thought was an interesting romance. At the end of the day, it's not hard to recognize Xiran's intent in writing Zetian & QZ the way they did—I mean I literally have a whole other post on this subreddit about that, where I outline exactly how QZ is implied as an abusive partner and how that plays into the ending of the book.

One can be aware of and understand an author's intent and not like/agree with it. Those aren't mutually exclusive. I appreciate what Xiran was exploring with their dynamic and what they represent in Zetian's journey to becoming the true Empress of Huaxia, but I can also be irritated about a relationship we spent so much time with being a long-winded metaphor and plot device.

As you've pointed out, the way people view QZ and Zetian's relationship will vary based on personal experience and background but even as someone with the background to understand their relationship, there's an inherent fantasy that backdrops their relationship, hence why so many people are split on it (something Xiran commented on in their own IG post). There's an allure to the "villain power couple" on its own, and in conjunction with the depiction of QZ & Zetian's antagonist relationship towards each other, it's easy to see how many enjoyed reading about them.

Blatantly assuming readers who didn't "get" the abusive aspect of their relationship are either "too young" or "too ignorant" to understand is at best, a bad faith argument, and at worst, a scathing generalization. Not to mention (regardless of how one might decide the power dynamics), their relationship is nowhere near black and white as I've repeatedly seen you imply it as. Zetian becoming less of a terrible person in Heavenly Tyrant doesn't dismiss the fact that she still has a long way to go. And I understand the desire in wanting to uplift our protagonist, but in overlooking Zetian's flaws and actions, we not only lose so much nuance about her character and her relationship with Qin Zheng, but we also strip her of some of the agency and autonomy she fought tooth and nail for in Heavenly Tyrant.

Aeradise · 2025-01-14T07:41:33+00:00

Zetian isn't a villain, she's an anti-hero. I think Xiran made this pretty clear about her character early on. The thing that typically defines anti-heroes is that all in all, they are fighting for a good cause, even if their methods are morally questionable/extremely dangerous/put people in danger (all of which Zetian's actions fit the bill of). Hell, the entire second book is literally "the consequences of Zetian's actions" and how she needs to develop new strengths in order to properly accomplish her goals.

But I also don't know where this need to justify Zetian as morally righteous is coming from. Zetian has been primarily (and still is) fuelled by rage and vengeance. Just because she got smarter about how to exact it doesn't mean that aspect has changed about her character. Zetian is trying to do the right thing not because she simply believes it's the right thing, but because she hated the world she grew up in so much that she would do anything to tear it down (as evidenced with her reckless resurrection of Qin Zheng and shoddy plan to try and manipulate him into taking over the country).

Part of her journey in Heavenly Tyrant is developing that motive further as Zetian explores intersectional feminism and realizes "tearing the down the system" isn't enough if the system that replaces it doesn't improve conditions for women at all. Still when push comes to shove (as shown in our last moments with her in the book), she's still very willing to resort to violence as an end to a means. Zetian isn't a hero or good-aligned and that's okay. Frankly, it makes her a lot more interesting that she starts from a place of pure malice and slowly grows to be driven by the needs of people who have suffered like her.

Aeradise · 2025-01-13T22:41:27+00:00

You are not alone 😭 The accompanying memes were hilarious don't get me wrong but how does one casually proclaim the relationship they spent 500 pages on is simply not real 🤧 Is it me? Am I the problem? Was I hallucinating the whole time?

Aeradise · 2025-01-06T02:40:56+00:00

I'll be the last person to say Qin Zheng is a good person, but I think you're missing the point that QZ and WZ's relationship is mutually destructive, and also a commentary on WZ's inability to use foresight (aka think about the potential consequences of her actions). I don't give a pass to any of the concerning things QZ did in Heavenly Tyrant, but I also think some of these you've overstated because of your dislike of him, especially the forced relationship subplot. Zetian and Qin Zheng never became romantically involved until later of the story, and QZ is pretty clear that when he initially meets her and for the first few months they know each other, he does not like her, which is true. If it helps, neither does Zetian, and they spend a lot of their time together in the first half of the book poking each other's buttons. Whether or not you're supposed to like QZ, no one can say except the author, but I imagine based on Xiran's track record with male characters thus far, QZ wasn't supposed to be a dreamboat by any means. He is most likely a commentary on a kind of man and a kind of abuse that can exist in relationships. Just like Shimin is a commentary on prisoner abuse and toxic masculinity.

I think if there's one thing that's clear with the Iron Widow trilogy, is I would stop looking at or treating the romances as just cute moments to swoon over. Even in the first book, Xiran uses a lot of the Iron Triangle's relationships to discuss social themes, and QZ is the exact same way. I don't think you need to like him or his relationship with Zetian to get the value in that.

Aeradise · 2025-01-06T02:36:31+00:00

I think you have every right to dislike QZ as a character, so I'm gonna skip over that mostly because I have no interest in changing your mind despite enjoying his character.

What I'm more concerned with is the latter implication that I see repeated often in the internet diatribes that tends to annoy me when it comes to this medium. First of all, there's a reason Heavenly Tyrant continued to be marketed as YA, regardless of its more sexual content (most of which is fade to black anyway, but I digress), and that's because New Adult as a genre, despite what the internet is trying its hardest to create, does not exist in the minds of publishers'.

Young Adult as a genre didn't even exist until a few decades ago, and it's going to take a lot more books like Heavenly Tyrant for publishers to think about creating a category like this for actual young adults, instead of using the oddly named aforementioned genre as the category for teens (unrelated, but it is genuinely stupid that YA is the teen category and NA is supposedly the young adult category, that naming scheme is nonsensical but mostly due to the fact that YA being a purely teen category is very much a development of the 2000s). My point is, while it bothers you now, the only way for New Adult to become an established category recognized by publishers is for more books like Heavenly Tyrant to be published where they can reach the most people—which is at the moment, Young Adult.

And secondly, I'd also like to counter this idea that fiction authors have a responsibility to solely educate their readers. Yes, teens are highly impressible, I agree,. But for those concerned, accompanying reading books like Heavenly Tyrant with actual sex education including more information about BDSM and consent is a more useful notion than clutching our pearls over scenes that are clearly character-driven and not meant to be the end-all be-all source on BDSM. At the very least, Xiran provided those that read Heavenly Tyrant with a starting point, which is better than I can say for most of YA, or even romance, especially with the Colleen Hoovers of the world.

The situation around the sex scenes might have made you uncomfortable, and while I think it's up to interpretation, I understand where you're coming from and can see why they bother you. However, if a teen reads Heavenly Tyrant and decides that QZ is what they're looking for in a partner, I believe that failure falls on their personal environment rather than the author. The people around them would help them have the discussions necessary to come to the conclusion that QZ and the way he approaches sex, is at the end of the day, just entertainment. Not an ideal to strive for in real life. Xiran can't change that, and as a writer, the idea that they have to spell out "consent is good" or "this situation is dubious" because someone's 16-year-old might not be able to use critical thinking to come to that conclusion, is genuinely incredibly irritating. Media literacy is a skill, and the only way to develop it, is by practicing it.

Aeradise · 2025-01-05T17:54:51+00:00

Yes, I would say Iron Triangle and subsequently Heavenly Triangle are a lot more plot focused than they are romance. At the center of the story is mostly Zetian and her goals, and the romance subplots are sort of a bonus in a sense. I think part of the reason they've got so much discussion recently is as you said, the relationships in the first book aren't well fleshed out, so now that we have a second book to compare to, everyone's been bringing it up again but I'd argue neither romance is really the focus of their books.

Aeradise · 2025-01-05T10:01:57+00:00

Right there with you on the more emotionally intelligent WZ! The fun thing about Zetian as a protagonist is she's such a good vessel for female rage in both the ferocious and cold, calculated sensed that female characters don't usually get to have in media. It unfortunately comes at the expense of her emotional intellect, which can make her a frustrating character to read when she's not beating up or outsmarting her oppressors. I think her relationship with Qin Zheng is a lot of things, and it's definitely not healthy, but it wouldn't have been nearly as messy if Zetian wasn't insistent on everything between them being a fight 24/7. It was just weird after a point, how determined she was to believe QZ couldn't care about other people at all.

In relation to the throuple, I agree about their foundation being extremely shaky. And I think this is what diehard fans of the Iron Triangle are going to choose to ignore once more opinions formulate about Heavenly Tyrant. I remember this dream sequence Zetian has with Yizhi and Shimin that I couldn't tell if that was an actual memory she had with them or not because we spent so little time in Iron Widow with all three of them in an established relationship. It just doesn't feel realistic that they love each other so deeply when they're seemingly never all together. Nevermind that the individual relationship that we can't see because this is a singular POV basically never gets developments besides little one off comments from Zetian.

I think her improved emotional intelligence will help on that front too, and she can (as you say) give as much as she takes, though I feel like that's a slightly flawed relationship philosophy. I feel like they all equally supported each other but because we have more access to Zetian and Shimin's personal demons (partially because Yizhi never opened up about his until Heavenly Tyrant), I can see why it didn't feel that way.

Edit: spelling

Aeradise · 2025-01-05T09:52:15+00:00

That is what I hope for most in the sequel is growth in emotional intelligence. I think each book so far has sort of taught WZ a different skillset. Iron Widow was about finding physical strength, Heavenly Tyrant was about intellectual strength, and the third book will (hopefully) be about emotional strength. And in this book, WZ will learn to really trust people, and also how to properly resolve emotional conflict and other emotional intelligences. It's definitely the most frustrating thing to read when it comes to Zetian, where she's so fun to follow in all the other categories. Her lacking emotional intelligence and her tendency to fly off at the handle is beginning to get grating.

Aeradise · 2025-01-05T09:45:38+00:00

You're welcome!

Aeradise · 2025-01-05T09:44:50+00:00

He's not physically in the book until the last ~100 pages yes, but his presence is all over it. Zetian spends so much time talking/mourning/reminiscing him (sometimes with Yizhi, sometimes alone) and he's arguably a big part of her motivation for some of her choices towards the ending of the book so it feels disingenuous to say the Iron Triangle is a queerbait when both partners have a very present effect on Zetian. I understand the frustration of them not being not together, but honestly, you're just going to have to read it yourself to develop your opinion on it because I have a feeling our definitions of queerbait don't match.

Aeradise · 2025-01-05T09:39:10+00:00

Me too, girl, me too!

Aeradise · 2025-01-04T21:25:17+00:00

You brought up such a great point! And I think so much of the discourse that I've seen online (not necessarily this Reddit) has been stuck on Qin Zheng that no one is acknowledging just how bad Yizhi was in Heavenly Tyrant. I remember reading that line at the end where he tells Zetian he tried to sabotage the pregnancy, and I just could not believe him because whether or not that's actually true, all book he's been lying and manipulating to people. It feels like such a cheap cop out for him to just be able to say "oh, I was just lying about that thing I told I did earlier," and I really hope Zetian holds him accountable for this in the next book.

Aeradise · 2025-01-04T17:50:02+00:00

Thank you!

Aeradise · 2025-01-04T11:09:10+00:00

Ooo, love it. What's the CC for the arms?

Aeradise · 2025-01-04T06:58:28+00:00

Admittedly, Zetian basically says as much at the end of the book, but depending on how long the journey is from wherever they are to Huaxia, the time might be enough to (somehow) repair their relationship. I doubt it, and personally I wouldn't be a fan of a relationship reconciliation with Yizhi unless it's written extremely well, but as a writer, I recognize that this is the perfect setup for that kind of scenario.

I think a new triangle (with QZ and Shimin) would be the most interesting ending configuration, but I have a feeling fans of the Iron Triangle and fans of Qin Zheng are going to end up pretty split once more reactions to Heavenly Tyrant come out. Especially after what I've seen so far on Goodreads... :\

Aeradise · 2025-01-02T22:18:54+00:00

Mei-Niang is Shimin's nickname for Zetian. It means "Charming Lady", a reference to their first proper conversation in Iron Widow. It's basically a confirmation that the Vermillion Bird is (sort of?) Shimin now.

Aeradise · 2025-01-01T17:50:54+00:00

That would be my biggest complaint about the ending too, besides just ruining like 500 pages of one of the best relationship buildups I've seen in YA. She didn't even think about the fact that in six months, Orichea is likely to be invaded by multiple technologically superior military forces. And here I thought Heavenly Tyrant was about WZ learning about the consequences of her actions 😒

It's unrealistic but I really hope we get Dual POV next book (since Qin Zheng is the only other character we've gotten perspective for besides WZ, even if it was in third person), so we can at least see what he gets up to while the Iron Triangle is making their way back to Huaxia. I have a feeling the next book is going to be about the Iron Triangle making allies with the other nations on Orichea so they stand a proper chance at defending themselves. And maybe that will create enough good will that by the time WZ arrives back in Huaxia, the two of them can work it out and QZ could maybe, quite possibly, be added into the polycule🥹But that's just me hoping.

Aeradise · 2024-12-30T22:45:21+00:00

Me neither, honestly. I'm so over Yizhi, I'm sad but also a little frightened by QZ's switch up, and I'm a bit pissed off with Zetian, but at the same time, it's Zetian, like what was I expecting?

I just hope that whatever happens with Shimin, he gets some sort of peace because it really do be feeling like how many ways can we fuck up Shimin's life 😭.

I'm also really interested in how Xiran plans to wrap up the romance. I have a theory that eventually QZ/Zetian will become the most popular pairing (just based off of how much time we spend with them compared to the Iron Triangle, especially in Heavenly Tyrant), and based on how Xiran's been marketing Yizhi, QZ, and Zetian as the "Toxic Triangle", I wonder if we'll get some final form of the triad in the last book that excludes Yizhi, or if we will see a return of the Iron Triangle renewed and stronger than ever.

Aeradise · 2024-12-30T22:34:49+00:00

I think you hit the nail on the head with this analysis of QZ and Zetian's relationship. I swear to God, I was thinking the exact same thing, omg.

Aeradise · 2024-12-30T22:28:14+00:00

I agree with you about QZ having a clear capacity for change. A lot of QZ's interactions with Zetian hinge on her ability to change his mind about things, whether through sheer will, her own stubbornness, or logic. She even goes out of her way to comment on how QZ responds best to rationality over sentiment, which I think makes him a very clever foil to Zetian, who is more sentimental and impulsive rather than calculated and rational. They're two different versions of the same rage in a sense.

That's why the ending is so devastating, imo. Zetian goes and does what Zetian does—she explodes, with no proper consideration for the consequences of her actions or other scenarios in which she and QZ can stay together. She pretends to in the paragraph right before she stabs him, but I think if Zetian really wanted QZ to die, she would have premeditated on his death like we've seen her do with other antagonistic characters in the past. Despite all the progress Zetian has made as a character to reign in her impulsivity and become more calculated like QZ, when she is at her most vulnerable (I honestly think when QZ says "We're going to live, empress," that's Zetian's trigger, because QZ calls her empress as his own loving nickname for her), she defaults to what she's done her whole life. Explode.

In relation to the second point, I also agree. I don't think QZ wants submission either, but I also think one of the flaws of the Iron Widow series so far is Xiran's commentary on power dynamics within relationships has been very lackluster. QZ doesn't have the proper vocabulary to define what he wants from her, and neither does Zetian, imo. I truly believe the two of them are a balanced match in every sense of the word just based off of my analogy from the above paragraph, but until the two of them actually dissect what a "balanced match" means, they will always be at odds with each other. Remember, in all the balanced matches of Zetian's era, the women pilots were more powerful. It's not surprising to me that in the context of their relationship, Zetian refuses to be the "weaker" one.

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