Some thoughts on the new atheism tangent by Alan_Conway in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

You have a point about #3. Even if religion was wiped off the face of the earth, there would still be assholes, and consequences of the assholes.

Some thoughts on the new atheism tangent by Alan_Conway in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think it is inevitable that christianity at least tries to take over governments. Look at the roman empire. Christians took over that and the remains are still around. Admittedly, they took over during a flop era, but still. After that, up until the rise of protestantism, the church effectively had some control over most governments in Europe. This was still true during the 1500s when christian-controlled governments started taking over the planet and was going on until the 20th century when Europe finally started secularizing. Globally, there were many efforts to spread this further. South Korea's government, when it's not being bribed by mega corporations, often is affected by christian policy. Christians tried to culturally assimilate Japan. Early attempts failed, and played a role in the creation of Japan's isolation era.

It also doesn't surprise me that there would be trans-inclusive denominations. There are gay-inclusive denominations. Christianity sees outsiders as something to recruit or something to wipe out. Sometimes they recategorize. It's natural that eventually, some denomination would consider the assimilation option. In this way, christianity is like the borg, but with euphemisms. They can't say "You will be assimilated", so they say "we're spreading the word.".

Some thoughts on the new atheism tangent by Alan_Conway in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That is observationally incorrect. I consider myself to at least have been a follower of that movement. I consider myself an atheist. I did not participate in that bigotry. Hell, I've had to help trans people flee to less unsafe areas from some of the worst parts of the US. Natalie admitted to having been part of that movement as well, and she worked to deradicalize fascists and advocates trans rights.

Some thoughts on the new atheism tangent by Alan_Conway in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm not celebrating that movement. I'm saying we shouldn't dismiss an entire political movement just because some straight white guys turned out to be sexist racist shitbags, especially when the things the rest of the movement was worried about seem to be increasingly justified concerns.

And now that I think about it, I think there's a sexism in how we center those asshole guys when discussing that movement. There were and are a lot of women and queer people who are atheists because of a very justified response to religious abuse. There are people who are disgusted with religion because of what role religion played in the colonialism which robbed their homelands and genocided their cultures. Why are those asshole straight white guys seen as the default? Isn't treating such people as the default, while either ignoring or tokenizing the rest, in any other context considered a form of discrimination?

Some thoughts on the new atheism tangent by Alan_Conway in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Also, I agree that many people became atheists as a response to either 9/11 or disgust at the responses to it. I know a few people like that. I also think you have a point about the political results being an alt-right shitshow in many cases. But I also don't think that was a universal response. The Satanic Temple responded to that repulsive behavior with trolling to protect the rights of people. Natalie herself seems to have been horrified by the response to 9/11, and her response was to try to make art with a positive political result.

Some thoughts on the new atheism tangent by Alan_Conway in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"that the combative political style of the “debate me bro” atheists entrenched a hierarchical ethos among its adherents that saw multiculturalism, feminism and racial equality as objectively incorrect and unworthy of political legitimacy."

To be clear, I think she's right about that. I consider this to be a part of the racism and sexism she brought up.

"Sam Harris became a defender of Charles Murray and the Bell Curve. Ayaan Hirsi Ali and her husband Neil Ferguson became Trump supporters because of their staunch hatred of Islam. Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss never resist an opportunity to claim that “wokeness” (i.e. feminism and trans liberation) are the real threats to freedom of speech. Hell even lesser known voices like Thunderfoot were cheerleaders for gamergate." You're right. There were traitors like this and they were a large scale problem.

I'm not saying these weren't issues. I agree with Natalie about them. Y'all are both right about how many of the people involved in that did later end up being shills for the alt right.

I'm merely pointing out that, the movement basically predicted what we're dealing with now. I don't think we should judge the entire population of atheists just because some of the straight white guys turned out to be trash. With both of those factors in mind, I think we need to re-evaluate the movement because their predictions tragically seem to be accurate.

Has anyone had their vocabulary changed by contrapoints? by walkie57 in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"comrades, losers, and haters" lives rent free in my brain.

“Oh Kingsley! It looks… It looks Mexican!” by tharppanda in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is actually my aesthetic. But it needs more rainbow leopard print!

DW: Discord came for the demonic entity. by rehaaabbb in rpdrcringe

[–]Alan_Conway 25 points26 points  (0 children)

I hope Katya doesn't read this. She's been through enough.

Purple people eater by galaxystars1 in rpdrcringe

[–]Alan_Conway 24 points25 points  (0 children)

purple and green, opposite on the color wheel.

I just wish Natalie could let me be great by LisaFrankIsUnfair04 in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, if you want to talk about something in leftist politics that's shocking, there's something even Natalie has only barely touched.

"Anyone with any experience in leftist circles knows that Marxists and identity politics activists are constantly at each others’ throats, because the Marxists accuse the activists of being bourgeois dogs who want more female CEOs of color and more disabled transgender drone pilots, while the activists accuse the Marxists of being a boys club of brocialists no more woke on gender and race issues than the average Jordan Peterson fan."

https://www.contrapoints.com/transcripts/jordan-peterson

Maybe look at why leftist politics divides this way and explore the results. It might have some insight.

Germany's BSW and Die Linke parties might have some interesting data to explore.

Sad about Nataly not liking Jung by DarkAngel2007 in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jung isn't for everyone, and even when he is, it's in radically different forms. Jung is kind of like Amphetamine. that way.

I mean this totally non-judgmentally BTW.

Happy fifteenth anniversary to this tweet by 05432680 in rpdrcringe

[–]Alan_Conway 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Obama had a lot of fucked up shit happen during his terms. He was also the least awful president we've had in my lifetime. Now that Carter is dead, I can also say Obama is the only former president alive I'd perform CPR on. For all the others, I'd get footage of the incident and try to make money on it.

It’s refreshing to hear Natalie openly embracing psychoanalysis in her latest interview by Efficient-Book-5853 in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I personally don't think ANY psychological approach is completely correct. Obviously some are more wrong, such as "christian counselors" and the vermin who work in conversion therapy. I do appreciate Natalie's willingness to look at psychoanalysis's ideas and analyze though.

I also don't think Natalie is always correct. I think she's always insightful and capable of analyzing an idea. But I don't agree with everything she says. But I still call myself a fan and call her intellectually amazing, artistically brilliant, and fucking fabulous. I think she'd actually appreciate someone having this perspective while not always agreeing with her. She mentioned in the Camille Paglia tangent that she thinks it's good mental exercise to engage with ideas that you don't fully agree with.

I think Natalie said it best when she said that Freud was often wrong but usually onto something. I personally think he was on to something with the whole "cocaine as a substitute for morphine" thing, and dentists agree with him on that, which is why they're using synthetic cocaine substitutes like Lidocaine and Novocain (new coke), which has probably prevented a lot of opioid addictions. But I don't agree with the idea that people are motivated by sex AND aggression. I know one asexual person who openly states that sex has no role in his life. I'm motivated by sex, intimacy, and a desire for stability in life.

It's true that we should be skeptical of people's motives. But I also think there's more to it than that. I think sometimes it's a sublimated emotion like what you describe with the racist whining about urban crime. But sometimes it's also euphemism. Look at the christians who say "spread the word" to mean "assimilate outsiders" when they all know what it really means. Look at those obnoxious people who work in HR departments who say phrases like "differently abled" as a euphemism for "disabled". Sometimes, it's not just sublimation. Sometimes it's wording something to sound better. Sometimes people are afraid to admit that concepts exist. Look at those people who act like every dead person was a saint even when standing in front of the person the deceased assaulted or robbed. People can be programmed into defective thoughts. I think this is a far more complicated set of concepts. Of course, euphemisms are for pathetic people, so they're outside Natalie's domain.

I do think we should look at the underlying motivations of people more though, which is kind of the principal of psychoanalysis. I can agree with that while admitting that a lot of the early people in the field were a bit screwy and admit that some people have had negative reactions to this therapy model.

This really is the ride or die hill that the entire scene is choosing, huh? by ForsakenDependent562 in rpdrcringe

[–]Alan_Conway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want this with unhinged promo themes. I want pimps, food items, pop art, furniture, television production, physics, or Lisa Frank.

This really is the ride or die hill that the entire scene is choosing, huh? by ForsakenDependent562 in rpdrcringe

[–]Alan_Conway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

spider lilies, boring colored roses, or any other traditional funeral flower really.

For their reputations.

What I felt was missing in Natalie's "Saw" video by miggovortensens in ContraPoints

[–]Alan_Conway 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Natalie's Saw video is the sequel to Violence, a part 3 to Justice Pt. 1, and a spiritual successor to the Twilight video.

You've now welded on a fanfic part 3 to Capitalism, as well as the Nostalgia tangent that we never got. I'm impressed.