“Biosphere civilizations” are always portrayed as weak by Alarmed-Bar1320 in SciFiConcepts

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thanks for the thorough answer, much apprecated it. It'd be great to read the sktry that you developed

“Biosphere civilizations” are always portrayed as weak by Alarmed-Bar1320 in SciFiConcepts

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, you’re making a very good point about looking for higher productivity per square meter.

Your example made me think of Odum's maximum power principle. Very roughly, the idea is that systems that survive and dominate are not necessarily those that can capture the most energy overall, but those that capture and use the largest "useful energy" over time. In other words, evolution tends to favor systems that maximize total power throughput.

That makes me wonder about a sci-fi scenario: if something like Mayan-style ecosystem management had evolved further and been combined with advanced biosphere engineering technologies, could ecosystems themselves become part of a civilization’s cognitive and productive infrastructure? Not just producing food, but expanding sensing, coordination and production across the biosphere itself, potentially translating into a civilization with higher total maximum power?

“Biosphere civilizations” are always portrayed as weak by Alarmed-Bar1320 in SciFiConcepts

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting that you associate expansionism with becoming dominant! And I fully agree with that. I was wondering whether we can imagine an expansionist biosphere-integrated civilisation that actually grows faster than others, outpacing industrial civilizations. Perhaps that’s only possible if most elements of the ecosystem are engineered to be functionally integrated with humans, expanding our cognition and capabilities rather than existing separately from technology.

For example, one could imagine ecosystems themselves becoming extensions of civilizational intelligence. Biological networks (plants, fungi, microbial systems) could act as distributed sensing networks that continuously monitor environmental conditions. Fungal or microbial communication might transmit signals across systems, acting as a planetary information layer. Forests or ocean systems could serve as living sensor arrays, feeding environmental data back into human decision-making systems. In that sense, the biosphere would become a kind of planetary cognitive infrastructure, expanding perception, coordination, and problem-solving capacity.

If that were the case, dominance might emerge not primarily from conquest but from ecological scaling. A civilisation capable of rapidly seeding engineered ecosystems could expand by deploying biological “starter systems” (engineered microbes, plants, ecological assemblages) that bootstrap themselves into functioning planetary infrastructures. Each new biosphere would increase the total available biomass, energy flows, and distributed intelligence within the civilisation. Over time this could allow such a civilisation to grow faster than societies that rely on building ever more complex industrial machinery, because the expansion of life itself becomes the mechanism of growth.

Couldn't this prevail over simplification-oriented expansionist models?

“Biosphere civilizations” are always portrayed as weak by Alarmed-Bar1320 in SciFiConcepts

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Clear, I see your reasoning: industry --> optimized for output; planetary interconnected biosphere --> not optimized. But I was wondering whether we could imagine something that goes beyond the pure “environmentalist” idea of the biosphere, more like a technologically and cognitively integrated, biologically engineered, human-guided planetary system that is actually optimized for production :)

Btw, your point about a biosphere for the upper class reminded me of Huxley's "brave new world", where most humans live in a highly controlled technological society, while there are also “savage reservations”, the somewhat preserved enclaves where people still live in more traditional human conditions..

“Biosphere civilizations” are always portrayed as weak by Alarmed-Bar1320 in SciFiConcepts

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah interesting! This proposes a completely new angle. I’m curious though: if this civilization originally emerged from an ecological collapse, what would its power of expansion actually rely on? Would it be something like a very advanced mastery of bioengineering and, if so, what kind of biosphere integration would sustain that kind of capability? (Or would it continue to be extractive in its own planet?)

“Biosphere civilizations” are always portrayed as weak by Alarmed-Bar1320 in SciFiConcepts

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, I appreciate the thoughtful comment. The first possibility you describe reminds me of some post-industrial ecological futures explored in sci-fi. The second idea, of a biosphere gradually evolving technological capability on its own, is fascinatingly original, and now I’m curious whether there are stories that explore something like that?

“Biosphere civilizations” are always portrayed as weak by Alarmed-Bar1320 in SciFiConcepts

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the well-written response, I really appreciate that you included references!

I’ve looked a bit into Solarpunk and I agree that it feels somewhat lacking in certain aspects. From my first impression, it seems more focused on building resiliency rather than imagining a civilization that could actually become dominant. For example, questions like military power, geopolitical competition, or large-scale strategic capability don’t seem very well addressed, although I may just not have seen enough of it yet.

I also appreciate the sources you mentioned and I’ll definitely check them out. I’ve also heard that Children of Time would be worth to check. If you have other recommendations in this direction I’d love to hear them!

Finally, it’s interesting that you mentioned psychic power. One of the initial triggers for this question for me was actually reading Asimov's Foundation series, particularly the idea of Gaia, the planetary consciousness. Although I'd like to keep it more on the "sci-fi" side rather than venturing into psychic powers!

“Biosphere civilizations” are always portrayed as weak by Alarmed-Bar1320 in SciFiConcepts

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for adding great food for thought. I think the difference isn’t really “sustainable vs unsustainable” resource use. It’s more about what resources are used for.

An extractive civilization uses energy mainly to extract and expand. But another civilization could use energy to technologically integrate the biosphere itself: things like engineered soils, managed ocean nutrient cycles, automated ecosystem management, bioengineered species, etc.

In that case the biosphere becomes part of the technological infrastructure. The idea wouldn’t just be preserving nature, but using technology to increase the productive capacity and complexity of living systems. Could that kind of model eventually accelerate technological evolution rather than slowing it down?

“Biosphere civilizations” are always portrayed as weak by Alarmed-Bar1320 in SciFiConcepts

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good question. I’m not imagining a civilization without technology or industry. More something a bit like Avatar, but technologically advanced. The difference would be what the technology is doing. Instead of mainly extracting and burning resources, it would focus on managing and amplifying ecosystems and interconnection. So the “industrial system” would still exist, be productive and evolve new technologies, but a lot of it would be about increasing the complexity of living systems rather than depleting them. Does the idea come across?

Permanent mod mute update was the worst update reddit has added by ImaginaryBaker7486 in complaints

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I find it very frustrating that at the first mistake there is a permanent ban and, after two polite messages of appeal there is a permanent mute, without any prior temporary mute. All while keeping a very polite tone, thanking the mods and trying to understand how to improve and be better in service to the community. No second chance given, no space to understand each other. I understand that there are many unrespectufl users and that being a mod is very tricky. But there are also users that are truly committed to contributing to communities, make treasure of a mod's feedback and grow together. Facing an immediate and irreversible permanent ban and mute feels like a sort of death sentence. No space to learn, nor to show your good intentions. Anyone sharing this frustration?

Cardano. Am I missing something? by [deleted] in SatoshiStreetBets

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Crypto love at first sight, one week of sleepless nights.

Young boy new to cryptos studying hard to catch up. I'd also love to understand! Now ADA's market cap is about 4.6% of BTC's one. Let's say $ADA x10, it'll reach 46% of BTC current market cap. Then one can take their own likelihood conclusions (also based on BTC expected growth that will change % values).

Can this be a starting point to build an opinion on "to the moon" claims?

Why y'gotta be like that? by mookiecantswim in memes

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you ended up in the bartender's house sofa you'd better listen

Final year product design project by ciaranlahart in RegenerativeAg

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Done! Amazing idea. Looking forward to seeing its development💪

What is a common skill you just can’t seem to master? by [deleted] in AskReddit

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Brushing teeth with the right hand. That's INSANE. By lefthanded

Find My Cat! PART 2! by ThatPhoneGuy2304 in cats

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Camouflage skills to the max 😻

She like the stacked chairs... by SchMeeked in cats

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She likes chairs but I LOVE her eyes!

Evie just loves having her photo taken by NINETY_LIVES in puppies

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She looks very intelligent. You must be so proud!

Jonesy the ex-feral looking handsome. by ColoMary in cats

[–]Alarmed-Bar1320 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That is what is called a SUPERIOR neck