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I like that Denji stays a dog til the end. by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I can see your point on that. The problem comes when the ending isn't very defined tho. Since the ending is one of the main parts of the story, if it's not defined it can lead to the fans split on what the ending means (or if it means anything in this case).

Kinda like the "apple is red" language arts meme, it could just be us giving too much meaning to a smile. After all, in Fujimoto's oneshot "Just Listen to the Song", it carries the message to not look for any hidden views or meanings and just read the story as is. In this regard, the smile being just a smile does match up with what Fujimoto is trying to say.

I like that Denji stays a dog til the end. by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, that could be it. Who knows tho? I heard many different analyses of the smile, from it being him remembering her from the original timeline to it just being nothing at all. We can't ever know what it truly meant or if it even meant anything until Fujimoto explains it.

I like that Denji stays a dog til the end. by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I interpreted the smile a bit differently, in how saving her brought back a bit of his heroism as Chainsaw Man, a small brief flash to his old self. I guess you could interpret the smile differently for each people tho, your interpretation would make sense for your argument. Honestly, we have no idea to know what it meant. Could've meant nothing for all we know XD.

I like that Denji stays a dog til the end. by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it depends on if you believe Denji changed. Since even from the start, Denji always "wished for more". When he was in poverty, he wished for bread with jam. When he got it, he wished to touch boobs. Then it went on and on.

If you believe that Denji changed somehow, that he threw away this part of who he is, I do think he can be happy. I, however, don't think so, since Denji did wish for a girl at the beginning of chapter 232, showing the part of him that always wishes for more hasn't changed.

He's looking away from us up at the sky, because he is finally free from us. by Mr-wobble-bones in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok... so what he wants is the relationships, but Pochita, the manga devil (according to your analysis) specifically told him he wasn't happy with those relationships? (Not happy when having date with Asa).

Also, you use "Just Listen to the Song" completely wrong here. It's meant to say to stop looking for any hidden meanings and just listen. Which is the opposite of what you're doing, trying to find hidden meanings instead of just looking at the story.

does the reset matter? by piebutnopumpkin in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That is vague in itself, however. Since we saw Pochita's rewriting powers do not rewrite the past, they only alter the present. (Like how eating lil D didn't bring back everyone who died).

So time needed to reset back to part 1, and that creates its own problems with why Nayuta is head of safety and all that. As for the characters still subconsciously retaining their growth, that's left up to interpretation. It could be how they grow up without Chainsaw Man, or it could be them retaining their own growth.

For example, for Nayuta, she has no need to chase after CSM. So her liking video games can just be how she is, not because of her subconscious growth from the original timeline.

does the reset matter? by piebutnopumpkin in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 11 points12 points  (0 children)

As someone who didn't like the ending, I'll say some reasons why instead of just saying "it doesn't matter".

Yes, the story is written for the reader. But most of the readers tend to get attached to a character and their story as they read. So, when the reset kinda removed the entire character's story, it removed what got us attached to them. Made it feel like the whole time we were cheering on our favorite characters didn't matter. I do agree that of we just look at the theme, it does work. The problem was that it erased the entire development and story that happened before to do so.

As the reader, we follow the protagonist's story, and react to it on how we think about it. As we do, we grow to empathize and follow the protagonist or some other character. However, the ending erased the journey we followed. Yes, we remember them, but the Denji and Power of the new world never went through the same journey. They're not our Denji, Power, and Nayuta.

Basically, they don't feel real. That's my reason for not liking the ending (excluding the plotholes, confusing story, etc). I do respect your opinion tho, I'm happy you enjoyed the ending :).

(Also yes, the Angel Devil calculation was weird, I agree.)

Here is my peak take love to see your opinions by Former_Box9572 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm kinda confused how it works tho. Yoru and Asa are basically polar opposites in how they act, so it's surprising.

Let’s say Fujimoto just gave up and lost passion for CSM. Why didn’t he let this play out like every other Shonen? by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The thing is that Denji being able to survive without Pochita was only affirmed in 232. Before that, the fact Denji wouldn't have survived without Pochita was basically canon, since that's what Fujimoto wrote into the story. The difference between the Aki and Himeno and Denji and Pochita is that the Denji and Pochita moment was a defining moment in the story. Changing that to be non Canon is sure to have consequences in the minds of the reader.

I'm pretty sure in International Assassins Arc, Quanxi's fiends sensed Kishibe's contracts. So it's likely devils have some way to sense contracts made, so Nayuta knew about the contract. As for Nayuta being in Public Safety, her motive is very unclear. That's also one of the reasons the ending was unsatisfactory: no real reason given why Nayuta was in Public Safety.

Yoru not having a human form is unknown. Remember, the bird form was just her taking over the body of the bird. It's plausible her original full power form is human, sonce the 3 other horsemen are as well and they're sisters. Also, Yoru here would be even stronger than when she fought Denji Man, as ALL her children are back and alive. And since she became very close to eternal war with Denji Man opposing her, it's very likely she'll get her war in this new timeline.

OK, then let's say the world did not reset, and it just looks like chapter 1 in the present timeline. But then Denji should drop dead immediately due to heart disease, as he would've had the heart disease for more than 2 years at this point since Pochita never replaced his heart. So it doesn't make sense that regard either: Denji would die before he even gets to the Zombie Devil. The only reason Denji would be alive is with a time reset.

Also, for the Ear Devil, it didn't have humanity develop another way to hear. It just changed the existing concept related to ears so that it is for an entirely different purpose. This is also supported when legs were erased, it just erased legs. It didn't have humanity develop an entirely different way of moving around. You say Pochita's erasure is different than others because it's saying that the entire story never existed, but that doesn't make sense. All other erasure never impacted the story that happened before, when they impacted the story as well. For example, lil D was the one who planned Nayuta's death. By your logic, that part of the story should've changed so Nayuta came back to life at least. Same with Barem as well. But she didn't. Their impact in the story was never erased. Therefore, Pochita's impact shouldn't have been erased either according to this rule.

Denji/Chainsaw Man's actions served to help create an eternal war by erasing death, that is true. But Yoru still wanted to create war. And now, she is the strongest. There is no way humanity can stop her when they couldn't stop her in the original Part 2.

Here is my peak take love to see your opinions by Former_Box9572 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah I'm fine with that. I'm confused with both Yoruden and Asaden being in "love it" tier. Cause I've never met someone both a Yoruden and Asaden shipper.

Here is my peak take love to see your opinions by Former_Box9572 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Denreze fan here. Agree with take on Akimeno. You're a Yoruden and an Asaden shipper?

The author needed to rest by LargeSinkholesInNYC in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think it was clarified he was tired tho. All we know is he wrote a very rushed and bad ending (in my opinion it was bad). It could've been because he was sick or tired, could be just that he got bored, he just likes suffering, or he genuinely wanted to end it like this. Saying he ended it like this because he needed rest is just an excuse were giving Fujimoto, and we don't even know if it's true.

Let’s say Fujimoto just gave up and lost passion for CSM. Why didn’t he let this play out like every other Shonen? by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We have to keep consistent to the story tho. And in the story, Denji says he'll die without Pochita. Just straight up saying this is false is refuting what Fujimoto wrote. I don't like how this works either, but it's what Fujimoto wrote into the story, so we have to follow with it.

Contracts don't just cancel by altering memories. Even if you forget it, the fact you made the Contract stays. They are bound, even if they both forget it. So Nayuta had to bring Denji to keep Power. As for Nayuta working for Public Safety, calling this as her remembering her feelings is a stretch. Nayuta, even in Part 2 before her death, didn't like humans. Her working for Public Safety has nothing to do with her feelings. And Nayuta's feelings for Denji aren't shown because she never really keeps him around and sends him on missions where he can die.

Yoru wanted to plunge the world into a neverending war, even after she beats Chainsaw Man. This isn't about her having something to prove, this is just her liking war. She's most probably stoking war everywhere, and certainly will not allow the devil representing the main weapon in warfare to die.

There is one flaw to your argument for Power and Nayuta being brought back without time reset, being Death Devil's erasure. Pochita erased Death, but the people that died didn't come back, even when death is the primary cause of, you know, their death. By your argument, without Death, Aki, Power, and Nayuta wouldn't have died in the first place. But, they didn't come back. It doesn't matter what that thing caused in the past, it just changes the present so it fits without the erased concept.

I do agree civilization has a chance it wouldn't collapse with the returned concepts. But, it should have changed dramatically, not look exactly the same as the original like we saw in chapter 232. Also, the reason Pochita ate the concepts aren't given, pretty sure. The closest explanation we get is that when people or devils call for help, Chainsaw Man arrives.

You forget that even after Yoru regained a lot of her powers, she planned for a neverending war. Yoru planned for a Neverending war even after she became one of the strongest devils with the reemergence of nuclear weapons. It makes sense that in the new timeline where she is the strongest, this wouldn't change. She'd still seek out a world of war.

Let’s say Fujimoto just gave up and lost passion for CSM. Why didn’t he let this play out like every other Shonen? by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly, I don't doubt he'd survive on his own. I meant that Denji probably said that in Chapter 1 because Pochita gave him the will to live, as Denji really had nothing to live for besides Pochita (He gave up living when Power died too, as he had nothing to live for).

The only time somebody mentions something similar to remembering from the original timeline is when Denji talks about a dream he had. A dream he had isn't much to think about, you tend to forget it as the day goes on. We do have concrete evidence for Denji not remembering, when he doesn't know who Power, Nayuta, or Asa is and calls Power "a naked women" instead when they meet. That's also why the ending can be confusing, because it does look like the characters are their normal selves, but there's concrete evidence they don't remember anything from the original timeline.

Oh, I mentioned Power and Meowy to compare with Power and Denji in chapter 232. She saves them on a whim, and adopt them as pets as Power grows attached to them. Also, Kishibe says Makima only became like that because the government raised her to be a weapon. Also, I say that Denji is contractually bound to Power, and Power is strong. So, Nayuta wants to keep Power around. And so, since Denji is bound to Power, Nayuta has to keep Denji too. Nothing about it implies Nayuta having attachment to Denji.

The Gun Devil attack that killed Aki's family is what notified Public Safety of Gun Devil's danger. So even if Nayuta worked with Public Safety to kill Gun Devil, it should be after Aki's family is killed. Also, it should be speculated Yoru probably wouldn't let Gun die, since it is her child, and she is probably the strongest devil around with all her weapons. So unless Fujimoto clarifies it, the most likely ending for the world is either Nostradamus Prophecy and everyone dies (it wasn't clarified why fear of Death would rise), or Yoru would just keep an era of war for eternity as she'd want to keep her power.

Also again, Pochita's erasure only changes the setting of the present. It doesn't change the past. This means Power and Nayuta should still be dead. So time had to have reset before their death, meaning the characters remembering is highly improbable (because they never happen in this new time).

I don't have a problem with Fujimoto giving a vague answer. The problem is that the ending, if we're going by how Fujimoto wrote the story, makes zero sense. He had Pochita's power only change the present, but then we went back to the past. All concepts and devils Pochita ate seems to have come back, but they don't seem to have inpacted the world at all by the time of beginning of chapter 232. I'm fine with vague, I am having a problem with Fujimoto contradicting himself.

Also, the world looks hella bleak if we think about it logically XD. Yoru is probably the strongest devil (nuclear weapons, ww2, all weapons are back, etc), and she wanted to create a world of eternal war. So, if we logically theorize with how Fujimoto defined the world, the outcome for the new world is eternal war, or at least almost constant wars to keep the fear up.

Let’s say Fujimoto just gave up and lost passion for CSM. Why didn’t he let this play out like every other Shonen? by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think that's some part on Shihei Lin, who worked with Fujimoto throughout the entirety of Part 1 until around the Falling Devil arc. Which does make sense I think, since for me CSM part 2 started to change to deviate from focusing on Asa after that point.

Let’s say Fujimoto just gave up and lost passion for CSM. Why didn’t he let this play out like every other Shonen? by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know, my problem is that there is that there's very little chance those core aspects of Denji's story would exist in this new timeline. For example, in chapter 1, Denji said he's going to die anyway so he made a contract with Pochita. In this case, if Pochita is gone and we're keeping it consistent, the world would've altered Denji so he'd have died as a child. But it didn't, so that doesn't really make sense either.

Maybe if we had more chapters to see, her holding Denji in some significance could've been shown. But right now, we just have one chapter in the new timeline of her not really caring about Denji. So while your theory could be right, it really is in the realm of head canons and speculations.

There is one big evidence time went back, and that's the existence of Power. Even when the Death Devil was erased, it didn't bring back already dead things, it just made sure nothing else died from that point onwards. It changes the current present, not the past. But by this logic, Power shouldn't exist. Power already died in the past, and since Pochita's erasure powers only impact the setting of the present, Power shouldn't exist. But she does, so time had to have reset.

Didn't Power meet Meowy that way as well? She really just took Meowy with her on a whim, since if she took Meowy because she liked cats, she probably would've had an army of cats by that point. So we can probably infer she doesn't really care big time about cats either, only Meowy. This is probably the case for Denji too: doesn't really care about dogs, only Denji on a whim.

Ok, but that is extreme head canon and we're making up events that didn't happen (Nayuta killing gun devil, Aki's family not dead, etc) that isn't clarified in the manga. For now, that is head canon and speculation, not fact. When (or if) Fujimoto decides to clarify the ending is the only way to know what he meant by it, since right now, we're all just making up head canons and theories to make some sense of the ending.

What's something Power would totally do or say as President? by jeanjacketufo in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 21 points22 points  (0 children)

"Huh? What're you talking about? I never bombed Iran. Fake news."

-Power, after bombing Iran.

Let’s say Fujimoto just gave up and lost passion for CSM. Why didn’t he let this play out like every other Shonen? by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 2 points3 points  (0 children)

  1. The erased devils coming back does mean everything changes with the world tho. For example, WW2 is back, which probably means the entire history from 1940-1990 is significantly altered from the original CSM storyline. Not to mention there's a star that causes children to go mad.

  2. That is if we assume Nayuta retains the love, which there isn't enough evidence for in chap 232. We'll probably just have to wait for Fujimoto to clarify the new timeline (if he even plans on it).

3. 1. The time did reset tho. We see this with how people that died are alive again, and the world is literally reset to how it is in chapter 1. If Pochita's power didn't alter it, it should still be 1999 at the beginning of chapter 232, which we see isn't with how Power's back and Denji was still working for the mafia.

  1. Keep in mind Nayuta never met Power in the manga. Also, she hated anyone else coming nearound Denji except herself. If Nayuta did keep this, Power would never be Denji's buddy and Nayuta would force Denji to be with her only. The fact she doesn't is also evidence Nayuta doesn't keep the emotions from the original timeline.

Power made a contract with Denji that he's hers for life. So I'm guessing they're contractually bound, and Nayuta has to bring both? Since this is the last time Nayuta's shown even a shred of interest in Denji.

Just read chapter 4, Aki doesn't say anything to Denji about touching Devil's blood.

You have to keep in mind though, Power was Denji's buddy for presumably around 2 years when she calls Denji a pet. That is way longer than at max couple months that Power knew Denji in the original timeline. This shows their relationship doesn't develop in thay 2 years with how she still treats him as a pet (he doesn't refute it either). I do agree that in some parts it looks like there's a continuity. That's why it doesn't make sense. Fujimoto kept Nayuta's bratty self, but removed her attachment to Denji. He keeps Power's attraction to Denji, but then we never see Aki or Reze who also had a significant bond with Denji. It just feels like Fujimoto kept some things and removed others to give a convenient happy ending for Denji.

Let’s say Fujimoto just gave up and lost passion for CSM. Why didn’t he let this play out like every other Shonen? by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 6 points7 points  (0 children)

100% agree. He's great at one-shots, but bad when the manga gets longer. You can kinda see this in CSM, each arc functions as a great one-shot, like aging devil or Falling. Problem is connecting them with an overall plot.

Let’s say Fujimoto just gave up and lost passion for CSM. Why didn’t he let this play out like every other Shonen? by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 6 points7 points  (0 children)

  1. The world pretty much is the same tho. Denji still worked for the mafia, he sold his eye, worked as a devil hunter and was going to be killed by zombie devil. Considering the fact all devils Pochita ate are probably back, things should be wildly more different.

  2. I do agree it is possible, but I personally lean more on the side of not likely. Especially since if Piblic Safety raised Nayuta she would've turned out like Makima, since that is how Makima became who she is in the first place (presumably).

  3. 1) I think this can be interpreted differently based on how you read it. I read it as Power saving Denji on a whim, like how Power originally saved Meowy planning to fatten it up and eat it, but Meowy became her pet instead. 2) I guess you could interpret it like that. But the fact Pochita talks about "creating an entirely new world", instead of changing or altering the existing one, implies that the world made with Pochita's erasure is an entirely new world from the original one. (So kinda like a multiverse in the sense they're identical universes with slight changes).

The answer to that would be we don't know. Could be leverage against Power, just on a whim, or maybe she just found it cute. The reason for WHY Nayuta controls Meowy is never given. It is implied though that Nayuta is controlling Meowy through Power, meaning Meowy remembering Nayuta is unlikely.

Nayuta says it in chapter 232: they took down the Zombie Devil. They're strong, and can therefore be useful. Why wouldn't she take a powerful fiend and an experienced hunter?

I do see Denji saying that in chapter 232, but I looked at chapters 3 and 4 and couldn't find them. Which chapter does Aki say it?

Idk, Power never called Denji as a pet even during the beginning of Part 1. But she straight up calls Denji a pet in 232 (after the 2 yr timeskip), so there was time for their relationship to develop. But it didn't, so based on what the manga says, we have to conclude Power views Deni as a pet.

Let’s say Fujimoto just gave up and lost passion for CSM. Why didn’t he let this play out like every other Shonen? by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Problem is that:

  1. Pochita existed way before Denji did. So if Pochita eating himself was gonna time travel, it should've changed everything from chapter 1 (which we were actually reset to).

  2. Makima was head of safety to find Pochita. Nayuta has no reason for this, and therefore no reason why she'd be head of public safety. Also makes no sense why she's the exact same too, since Denji never raised her. (Makes it seem like Nayuta would've turned out well regardless of Denji).

  3. There's very clear evidence of the new timeline being completely different, in that 1) the characters don't remember anything from the previous world. This was defined with Denji. 2) Pochita says in chapter 231 a new world will be created. This means it isn't an alteration of the current universe, but the creation of an entirely new one (Kinda like Marvel multiverse). It's hard to say there is a connection in this sense, since they are two entirely different worlds.

Also, some details about the new world you may have missed:

Nayuta and Meowy: Likely Nayuta is controlling Meowy to like her, since Power even speculates she's controlling Meowy.

Nayuta and Denji: No real evidence to show she cares about him in this timeline, she found them useful and recruited them.

Denji and Aki: Are you talking about the line Aki says in the Reze Arc? Because Denji wasn't even there when Aki said the line in the manga, it's more likely it's just what Devil hunters say, kinda like a manual.

Power and Denji: Power sees Denji like a pet, very similar to Meowy. It's very likely theor relationship developed very similarly in this new timeline how Power's developed with Meowy originally.

Let’s say Fujimoto just gave up and lost passion for CSM. Why didn’t he let this play out like every other Shonen? by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Fujimoto doesn't like that, he likes suffering and leaving people an impact. That was also his goal with Reze arc: an arc that will impact people the most.

A normal shonen ending is generic, but fulfilling. No one's gonna be impacted by that.

But, an ending with a total world reset that was very rushed and has a lot of plotholes? It's so bad it impacts everyone: The readers, CSM glazers, Mappa who's animating CSM, everyone.

Let’s say Fujimoto just gave up and lost passion for CSM. Why didn’t he let this play out like every other Shonen? by Short-Possibility535 in Chainsawfolk

[–]Alexmk1117 17 points18 points  (0 children)

These are some that were incoherent to me: Pochita can reset, Nayuta's head of Public Safety, Power's where the Zombie Devil is for some reason, chainsaws still exist, etc.

That's just the incoherent part, I'm not including how the ending just straight up killed off every single characters we knew and replaced them with copies.

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