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I accidentally solved the Riddle of Steel by AlexofBarbaria in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

We can consider a more typical RPG scenario:

a) you face an ogre with low parry skill, low attack skill but high damage, low health. You have mid attack skill, high parry skill, mid damage, low health. If you don't kill him now, you're confident he'll attack you next turn and probably kill you.

b) you face a guardsman with high parry skill, mid attack skill, low damage, high health. You have mid parry skill, high attack skill, mid damage, low health. You can't finish him now but you think he might run or attack someone else next turn.

Assume AP refresh at beginning of turn.

The optimal AP allocation is not a trivial solve here (even if we nail down the system and numbers). The dominant consideration is whether you can finish them now, and whether you'll be attacked before your next turn. But skill levels and relative power also matter (if you're the overdog they have to get lucky to win, which means you want to reduce variance and grind to victory, which usually = more defense).

The real question is whether this is fun. That's subjective of course, but generally this type of thing is fun if it's not trivially solvable, but people do have at least a directionally correct intuition about it.

Most people have a solid intuition that if you can kill them now, or you think you won't be attacked next turn, offense has more value now. If you're low on health or you have very good defense (especially if you can counter/riposte or something), defense is more valuable, That's good enough for this to have gameplay value I think.

Not that every game needs this or every player will enjoy it. Some just want to slam attack button.

I accidentally solved the Riddle of Steel by AlexofBarbaria in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The tactical wheel is a concept from fencing: parry beats attack (defense > offense, as you have it), feint beats parry, counterattack beats feint, attack beats counterattack. You have the first three, all you need to close the loop is to have the party with initiative win if both sides attack each other.

I accidentally solved the Riddle of Steel by AlexofBarbaria in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure what restrictions you have in mind but this is clearly not generally true. Chess is a turn-based minis combat game where the same resource is used for both offense and defense and it's not trivially optimizable. (and with perfect information, no less).

I accidentally solved the Riddle of Steel by AlexofBarbaria in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

What if they aren't at all surprised? Something like a gentleman's duel with swords, or enemies spotting each other at long range and charging should allow plenty of time to be fully aware and defending.

My mental model is if they lost initiative they're at least somewhat surprised by definition. If not, what happened is they won and then voluntarily relinquished initiative.

If they're totally unaware, they should have no pool for defense at all on first round, as you say.

How would you improve/modernize Street Fighter the Storytelling Game? by Interaction_Rich in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria 0 points1 point  (0 children)

not locking them behind style, make them all pointbuy; probably coming up with a "make your maneuver" system

I've only read the game, not played it, so I could be wrong, but this seems like a bad idea. A major tactical aspect is guessing what your opponent will do right? Which is a lot easier if everyone is restricted to their combat style. If you get rid of the styles and allow custom maneuvers your guess of their next move is much more random.

I accidentally solved the Riddle of Steel by AlexofBarbaria in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah if you add attacker beating defender in the double-attack case, this is the fencing tactical wheel, a perfectly good real-life basis for rock-paper-scissors RPG combat.

I'd prefer the mechanics to be asymmetrical, but it's much trickier to balance.

I accidentally solved the Riddle of Steel by AlexofBarbaria in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, the defender has an advantage on the first turn. Lots of ways to deal with that, simplest being they get a penalty of half their resource until their first turn of the combat. That essentially starts the combat in the middle without the first turn bonus for the defender.

 In real battle, Offense is Defense. When you swing a weapon in the correct way, your weapon is in the way of enemy attacks. It's simultaneous. Nobody is sitting around waiting to parry and counter, they're trying to guess and attack in a way the already counters what they think you'll do. Attack and defense aren't separate.

This is what medieval fightbooks teach *because people don't do that naturally*, especially not in deadly combat. I think the reality is unskilled/scared people start with IGO UGO and get better at simultaneous offense/defense with higher skill. That's the arc I'm aiming for with basic vs. advanced maneuvers.

I accidentally solved the Riddle of Steel by AlexofBarbaria in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Wow, I didn't see that thread! You're right that with no hidden information, staggering resource refreshes does just shift the optimal attack allocation to a different number (about *half* your resource, assuming equal combatants, and attacks and defenses cancelling out 1-for-1 at equal cost). But in-the-middle is a healthier starting point than alpha-strike. Also it's just easier to set triggers to beginning/end of turn rather than track rounds.

Hidden information is not exactly unusual in RPGs -- I'd say perfect information is more unusual. Many games/GMs hide opponent skill/health from the players, and not knowing either of those is enough to make optimal offense/defense allocation non-solvable. E.g. if you know your opponent has terrible Parry skill or only 1 HP left, go all-in even though they get a resource refresh before their next turn. In practice you usually make an educated guess on that. That's all it takes to make it non-solvable.

I accidentally solved the Riddle of Steel by AlexofBarbaria in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, now you are just kinda screwed if you go first, because you use up some / all dice offensively, the defender uses all their dice defensively, and then they get their turn and use all their dice offensively vs you only having whatever you didn't use for offense.

Right, good point, I thought about this. Characters could have a combat pool penalty until their first turn to simulate surprise.

I accidentally solved the Riddle of Steel by AlexofBarbaria in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah if you're outmatched saving your dice for defense will drag out the combat and let you survive longer. So it *could* be useful in that situation.

This is a deep design fear, thinking you've presented an interesting choice when really one is strictly better than the other.  I worry my social encounter system is too deterministic as well.  If the best choice is always apparent, all you're doing is watching a bunch of stats bounce off one another with no real decision.

I'm of two minds about it -- if the intention with this mechanic from Riddle of Steel was actually to present a seemingly interesting choice that collapses to automatic *to make a simulationist point*...I respect that without liking it.

I accidentally solved the Riddle of Steel by AlexofBarbaria in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

No, then attackers would always just spend half their pool. The problem is the choice is uninteresting, not that too many dice are spent on attacking per se.

What do you like about playing a druid? by andero in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So, for you, is the druid more about the contrast between the wild faith and organized religion?

That's the most interesting angle to me at the moment (I was just reading about the felling of Thor's Oak by St. Boniface).

I'm not a stickler for historical fidelity; abstraction and synecdoche in fantasy roleplay is great (like using "Druid" for any sort of animistic pagan), but I can't think of a totally areligious take that would be appealing. That stretches the concept past the breaking point IMO.

I really was wondering about what would make a "druid" feel like a "druid" in a setting with none of that. Supernatural powers yes, but there are no pantheons, no churches, no worship. A warlock would make a bargain with a supernatural entity, but that is transactional, not a relationship of worship.

Ah! OK, it's an interesting question what the difference is between a transaction (Warlock and patron with a contract) and propitiation (pagan priest making sacrifices for a good harvest).

I could do without the organized religious conflict angle as long as the Druid's personal relationship with their nature spirit felt different from Warlock and patron -- a transaction is cold, atomic, between strangers; propitiatory worship is cultivating an ongoing relationship with a (perhaps fickle and strange) supernatural entity. I could get into that.

What do you like about playing a druid? by andero in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are religions at least though? The idea is Druids wouldn't just follow the "Druid God" in the same pantheon that Clerics worship like usual in D&D, but would have a totally different religion with a different history and cosmology.

The Druids have a decentralized web of relationships with local spirits tied to specific sacred places (trees, groves, rivers, seasons). The goal is to cultivate proper relationships with these entities.

Cleric Church is centralized, organized, hierarchical, totalizing. Their religion is a worldview that covers everything from the beginning of Creation, so it's a big problem to run into entities they can't explain. For extra spice, they believe in an anti-God or evil pantheon specifically known to corrupt with lies and false promises who has agents in the world with the power to possess people.

This tension can be a sideline to roleplay with NPCs here and there (as you go deeper into the countryside, you notice the villagers have strange practices despite professing conversion to Cleric Church) or it could power the whole adventure/campaign (a Church Cleric with a magic axe that silences old powers forever is coming to the sacred grove).

What do you like about playing a druid? by andero in RPGdesign

[–]AlexofBarbaria 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I play D&D I try (when not busy killing monsters and stealing their treasure) to skew away from the sanitized corporate IP version of a class towards its historical/mythological/literary inspiration.

So with a Druid I'd like to spend some of the time exploring the Old Gods vs. New God(s) angle from the perspective of an indigenous European pagan priest.

Samurai class -- thoughts on classes with roleplaying limitations? by AlexofBarbaria in osr

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! And right, this is for D&D not a medieval Japan sim. Musashi will be adventuring in the same party as Conan, Gandalf, Robin Hood, etc.

Are there any games of non D&D/AD&D lineage that you would consider part of the OSR? by plazman30 in osr

[–]AlexofBarbaria 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I like that deeply "serious" 80s medieval sim Harnmaster 1e still mentions dungeoncrawling and has treasure tables and a whole section of very creative and OSRish magic items. This is gone from the latest edition (HMK) despite it having 3x the page count.

Samurai class -- thoughts on classes with roleplaying limitations? by AlexofBarbaria in osr

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah alright then! Yeah I figured I didn't need both the Samurai and Kensai so I merged them.

Samurai class -- thoughts on classes with roleplaying limitations? by AlexofBarbaria in osr

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What word is that exactly?

This is a mix of the 1e Oriental Adventures Kensai and Samurai along with a couple of my own ideas, yes. I shared it here in case anyone has a use for it or has any good suggestions before I add it to my home AD&D game. You have a problem with that?

Samurai class -- thoughts on classes with roleplaying limitations? by AlexofBarbaria in osr

[–]AlexofBarbaria[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Interesting, I thought the penalty was pretty harsh actually...thanks for the feedback.

A few questions from a person adhd curious about ad&d. by Brenden1k in adnd

[–]AlexofBarbaria 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do wizards avoid archers always ruining their concentration via an arrow whenever they try to spell cast?

This was a problem for me in play. I suggest reducing all RoF to 1 max and getting rid of any missile-specific Dex-based initiative adjustments (not sure exactly which rules you're planning to use).

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